The 'defense' blows it again

billyh1026 · 12-15-2002, 10:25 PM

Yea Pak, maybe I am on crack....but you know what I see? A guy who can\'t handle the position of QB. He gets sacked when he shouldn\'t be getting sacked...c\'mon, the guy is supposed to be able to run and he can\'t even get away from D linemen?? AND he was throwing from the shotgun during those sacks today!!!! He can\'t read defenses well or he\'d be checking out of bad plays. Basically, the only throw he can make consistently is the slant in. AND that\'s when he throws it 100mph. Give me ONE more throw he makes on a constant basis? Just one?? Name it? You can\'t cuz it ain\'t there... Oh wait...there is one other throw he makes. The one to the sidelines when no one is on the WR. So he has 2 throws he can make...and one of them my grandma could throw because there\'s no one within 10 yards of the receiver. So give me one other real throw he can make?? Just one more???? Name it? I dare ya? The guy still hasn\'t learned how to throw the ball away consistently. I can go on and on and on but it\'d do no good. You guys are in love with him...kinda like a case of not being able to see the trees for the forrest type thing. Trust me...he\'s not a good QB. Just keep living in your dream world of him taking us to the SB and you\'ll be living for the draft every year.

pakowitz · 12-15-2002, 10:45 PM

and all this from a guy named billy H... whats ur middle name? JOE?

saintz08 · 12-15-2002, 10:47 PM

Personally I would like to see James Allen in there .

He has the speed to close the gap and would be able to spy , Vick .

He is an outside linebacker , but the teams that are shredding the Saints are the teams with running quarterbacks . Allen would be able to close the gap on the screen , draw and quarterback run faster than Clemmons .

Fast middle linebacker has to be addressed in the first round .

daviddrake2 · 12-15-2002, 11:21 PM

Billy, I can see your point. I have wavered back and forth on Brooks, defending him at times and railing at others. But I too am getting fed up.

Aaron just doesn\'t seem to care much about the game. He shows no enthusiasm. He just kind of sloths around, whether its coming on or off the field, getting into the huddle, dropping back for a pass (usually waaaaaay to far back), or god forbid, running the ball. And when he makes a bad play, i.e. an interception, a piss poor throw, gets sacked unnecessarily or loafs when he should be running for yardage or a first down, he just shrugs it off or worse yet, smiles.

I don\'t know what happened to a QB that not so long ago showed so much fire and potential. Hell, it\'s not like he doesn\'t have one of the best receiving corps and running backs in the league. He just has to use them and play heads up ball.

I don\'t know if he just doesn\'t get the game or if he just doesn\'t care. Either way, I am certainly getting fed up with his antics and I sure hope something changes -- FAST!

(You know it\'s bad when Gator gets down on Aaron too...)

Go SAINTS!

David in Houston

saintz08 · 12-16-2002, 01:16 AM

Some interesting points from some other Saints fans on Brooks .

One fan writes :

Everyone here knows that I have been an Aaron Brooks fan since Day 1.

He has all the physical tools and it seems that he\'s working hard to avoid making as many mental mistakes.

That being said, it\'s starting to concern me that the defensive pressure that he\'s been feeling for most of the year is really dictating his poise in the pocket.

Don\'t get me wrong. Having taken a pounding as often as he has is bound to make anyone \'antsy\'. But now he\'s getting completely predictable on passing plays.

Our \'sieve-like\' offensive line has him constantly back-pedaling, and it\'s been a LONG TIME since I\'ve seen him move up in the pocket and step INTO a pass.

Unfortunately, he\'s doing this now almost subconsciously, even when there\'s little or no pressure on him.

Could he be getting too scared to play the position???

__________________

Another fan writes :

First off, this isnt either a support or a flame thread on AB. It\'s simply about him.

It seems as if Aaron knows what receiver he is going to before he snaps the ball. It\'s almost like me in Madden. I know I\'m probably going to a certain guy. If that guy isnt there, Brooks just takes off running.

Once he starts running, he usually turns his back to the receivers. How in the world do you throw the ball to guys who are behind you?!?

He is too lanky for his own good. I think he trips on every third step he takes.

He simply cant make reads. I dont know how many times I saw a wide open receiver down the field. I lost count.

Another time, Deuce was left uncovered on the outside, and instead of snapping the ball and bulleting out to Deuce (who was doing everything besides taking off his shoe and throwing it at Brooks to get his attention), Aaron took 10 minutes behind the line to figure out what was going on.

Another play I vividly remember was Brooks throwing a screen to Horn. Not a bad play. Until you realize that Horn was being pressed. Why? Why would he throw that.

I think that\'s everything. I\'ll probably think of more later. I could think of many things Tom Benson could do with that 6 million a year he is giving Aaron.

Brooks - 21 of 33 for 255yds . 0 int.

These are not bad numbers , considering Brooks is injured . The play calling in my opinion is questionable and the glaring lack of any middle defensive strength is quite astounding . You have to ask , Vick and Culpepper have great running days against the Saints , where is the middle linebacker ????? Has he been dropped into coverage or is he sleeping ??

Found this thought I would add it .

Linebackers: Darrin Smith led the defense with 14 tackles and was a big reason behind the run defense that shut down Michael Bennett. Sedrick Hodge was put in a bad position on Randy Moss\' 33-yard score before halftime. Charlie Clemons continues to struggle in the middle. Grade: C.

All I want to know is , who was the brain surgeon that called a defensive play that had an outside linebacker on one of the top wide receivers in the NFL ?? Haslett was what before a head coach in New Orleans ???

[Edited on 16/12/2002 by saintz08]

saintfan · 12-16-2002, 08:27 AM

It didn\'t take too much imagination on my part to think I\'d log on today and see the same \'ol folks in here blaming yesterday on poor \'ol AB. When he got any kind of protection he threw the ball well. We he didn\'t (which happened far too often yesterday) he had problems. They came at him from all angles yesterday. I haven\'t heard anyone mention the offensive line yet. Their Pass Blocking was terrible, and their run blocking was even worse. Isn\'t it their job to block, or should AB do that too? You guys are just LOOKING for something to use against AB. How \'bout this novel idea -- Let\'s blame those responsibe.

1. The offensive line -- they sucked yesterday
2. The Defense -- All of it...all 11 players...just plain sucked
3. Coaches -- In particular Rick Venturi. Hodge on Moss? You gotta be kiddin\'.

Say what you will about AB, but he played well enough to win yesterday (as he has done with maybe two exceptions this year). Say what you will about AB, and I know some of you will, but if any of you think AB was the reason we lost yesterday, then...well, then your ignorance is showing. Simple as that.

saintz08 · 12-16-2002, 09:44 AM

Saintsfan

Did you get that comin home to your favorite dog and your favorite slippers feelin .

Shhhhhhh - Im a huntin defense . As Elmer Fudd might have said if he saw the game yesterday .

5 things I want to know .

1. Who draws a defensive play that puts an outside linebacker on a # 1 receiver in the NFL. To me that seems like a brain fart from the get go . What next , Norman Hand drops into coverage ???

2. What was that dance step Sammy Knight was doing in the end zone when Moss caught that ball between Knight and Carter ??

3. On the Viking 2 point conversion , Did Culpepper fumble it or did he reach into his sock and get a sharpie and sign the ball and then waltz into the endzone ??

4. On the 2 point conversion , Did anyone in the Dome not think that Culpepper was going up the middle ??? That one seemed pretty obvious to me .

5. And last but not least , I will be the first to admit I am lacking on certain NFL league rules . So someone help me out here , I thought there was a rule in the NFL that a player in the last 2 minutes cannot fumble a ball forward and forward the ball into the end zone , ala Dave Casper , Oakland Raiders .

[Edited on 16/12/2002 by saintz08]

saintfan · 12-16-2002, 10:08 AM

Saintz08 --
My take on your \"5 things\"

1. Who draws a defensive play that puts an outside linebacker on a # 1 receiver in the NFL. To me that seems like a brain fart from the get go . What next , Norman Hand drops into coverage ???

I guess Rick Venturi does...blitz or not thats just stupid. I say fire him!

2. What was that dance step Sammy Knight was doing in the end zone when Moss caught that ball between Knight and Carter ??

I think Sammy and Dale were lining up for the Texas Two-Step. Honesty I\'m not as impressed with Carter as I thought I\'d be. Sammy\'s contract is up next year and, as much as I like him, after yesterday I\'m not so sure I\'ll be sad to see him go.

3. On the Viking 2 point conversion , Did Culpepper fumble it or did he reach into his sock and get a sharpie and sign the ball and then waltz into the endzone ??

I think he did both.

4. On the 2 point conversion , Did anyone in the Dome not think that Culpepper was going up the middle ??? That one seemed pretty obvious to me .

Me too, and I\'m no brain child. I think there was one guy sittin way up in the South end zone that wasn\'t sure, but he\'d been drinkin heavily since the night before the game.

5. And last but not least , I will be the first to admit I am lacking on certain NFL league rules . So someone help me out here , I thought there was a rule in the NFL that a player in the last 2 minutes cannot fumble a ball forward and forward the ball into the end zone , ala Dave Casper , Oakland Raiders .

I have to admit I\'m not sure about this one, but it makes sense to me. Either way, the officials are far too interested in petty holding calls and BS roughing the passer calls to actually worry about enforcing the basic rules of the game.

Finally, did we actually just agree? Heavens to Betsy (Not sure what that means)! What are people in here gonna think?

JOESAM2002 · 12-16-2002, 11:42 AM

Well you guys are right on the nose. The offensive line stunk up the dome yesterday. The only part of the game that I see as worse was the play of the defense, or lack of it. They were terrible. As to who\'s fault it was, the defense playing so bad, I think it was a combination of players and coaches. It\'s hard to place the blame on AB, when he has a QB rating of over 100. I can only think what it might have been if he had any blocking.
P.S. I kinda like the name Joe. :casstet:

KeithRK · 12-16-2002, 01:34 PM

I found an answer regarding the question above on advancing a fumble.

According to NFL.com, on the extra try, only the player who fumbles the ball may pick it up and advance it.

http://ww2.nfl.com/fans/rules/try.html

12-15-2002, 10:25 PM	#11
billyh1026 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 213	The 'defense' blows it again Yea Pak, maybe I am on crack....but you know what I see? A guy who can\'t handle the position of QB. He gets sacked when he shouldn\'t be getting sacked...c\'mon, the guy is supposed to be able to run and he can\'t even get away from D linemen?? AND he was throwing from the shotgun during those sacks today!!!! He can\'t read defenses well or he\'d be checking out of bad plays. Basically, the only throw he can make consistently is the slant in. AND that\'s when he throws it 100mph. Give me ONE more throw he makes on a constant basis? Just one?? Name it? You can\'t cuz it ain\'t there... Oh wait...there is one other throw he makes. The one to the sidelines when no one is on the WR. So he has 2 throws he can make...and one of them my grandma could throw because there\'s no one within 10 yards of the receiver. So give me one other real throw he can make?? Just one more???? Name it? I dare ya? The guy still hasn\'t learned how to throw the ball away consistently. I can go on and on and on but it\'d do no good. You guys are in love with him...kinda like a case of not being able to see the trees for the forrest type thing. Trust me...he\'s not a good QB. Just keep living in your dream world of him taking us to the SB and you\'ll be living for the draft every year.
billyh1026 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 213	Dean Vernon Wormer: Mr. Hoover, president of Delta house? One point six; four C's and an F. A fine example you set! Daniel Simpson Day... HAS no grade point average. All courses incomplete. Mr. Blu - MR. BLUTARSKY... ZERO POINT ZERO. John 'Bluto' Blutarsky: Christ. Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the f@$%ing Peace Corps.

12-15-2002, 10:45 PM	#12
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	The 'defense' blows it again and all this from a guy named billy H... whats ur middle name? JOE?

12-15-2002, 10:47 PM	#13
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	The 'defense' blows it again Personally I would like to see James Allen in there . He has the speed to close the gap and would be able to spy , Vick . He is an outside linebacker , but the teams that are shredding the Saints are the teams with running quarterbacks . Allen would be able to close the gap on the screen , draw and quarterback run faster than Clemmons . Fast middle linebacker has to be addressed in the first round .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

12-15-2002, 11:21 PM	#14
daviddrake2 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Houston (formerly N.O.) Posts: 270	The 'defense' blows it again Billy, I can see your point. I have wavered back and forth on Brooks, defending him at times and railing at others. But I too am getting fed up. Aaron just doesn\'t seem to care much about the game. He shows no enthusiasm. He just kind of sloths around, whether its coming on or off the field, getting into the huddle, dropping back for a pass (usually waaaaaay to far back), or god forbid, running the ball. And when he makes a bad play, i.e. an interception, a piss poor throw, gets sacked unnecessarily or loafs when he should be running for yardage or a first down, he just shrugs it off or worse yet, smiles. I don\'t know what happened to a QB that not so long ago showed so much fire and potential. Hell, it\'s not like he doesn\'t have one of the best receiving corps and running backs in the league. He just has to use them and play heads up ball. I don\'t know if he just doesn\'t get the game or if he just doesn\'t care. Either way, I am certainly getting fed up with his antics and I sure hope something changes -- FAST! (You know it\'s bad when Gator gets down on Aaron too...) Go SAINTS! David in Houston
	Go SAINTS!!!!! David in Houston

12-16-2002, 01:16 AM	#15
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	The 'defense' blows it again Some interesting points from some other Saints fans on Brooks . One fan writes : Everyone here knows that I have been an Aaron Brooks fan since Day 1. He has all the physical tools and it seems that he\'s working hard to avoid making as many mental mistakes. That being said, it\'s starting to concern me that the defensive pressure that he\'s been feeling for most of the year is really dictating his poise in the pocket. Don\'t get me wrong. Having taken a pounding as often as he has is bound to make anyone \'antsy\'. But now he\'s getting completely predictable on passing plays. Our \'sieve-like\' offensive line has him constantly back-pedaling, and it\'s been a LONG TIME since I\'ve seen him move up in the pocket and step INTO a pass. Unfortunately, he\'s doing this now almost subconsciously, even when there\'s little or no pressure on him. Could he be getting too scared to play the position??? __________________ Another fan writes : First off, this isnt either a support or a flame thread on AB. It\'s simply about him. It seems as if Aaron knows what receiver he is going to before he snaps the ball. It\'s almost like me in Madden. I know I\'m probably going to a certain guy. If that guy isnt there, Brooks just takes off running. Once he starts running, he usually turns his back to the receivers. How in the world do you throw the ball to guys who are behind you?!? He is too lanky for his own good. I think he trips on every third step he takes. He simply cant make reads. I dont know how many times I saw a wide open receiver down the field. I lost count. Another time, Deuce was left uncovered on the outside, and instead of snapping the ball and bulleting out to Deuce (who was doing everything besides taking off his shoe and throwing it at Brooks to get his attention), Aaron took 10 minutes behind the line to figure out what was going on. Another play I vividly remember was Brooks throwing a screen to Horn. Not a bad play. Until you realize that Horn was being pressed. Why? Why would he throw that. I think that\'s everything. I\'ll probably think of more later. I could think of many things Tom Benson could do with that 6 million a year he is giving Aaron. Brooks - 21 of 33 for 255yds . 0 int. These are not bad numbers , considering Brooks is injured . The play calling in my opinion is questionable and the glaring lack of any middle defensive strength is quite astounding . You have to ask , Vick and Culpepper have great running days against the Saints , where is the middle linebacker ????? Has he been dropped into coverage or is he sleeping ?? Found this thought I would add it . Linebackers: Darrin Smith led the defense with 14 tackles and was a big reason behind the run defense that shut down Michael Bennett. Sedrick Hodge was put in a bad position on Randy Moss\' 33-yard score before halftime. Charlie Clemons continues to struggle in the middle. Grade: C. All I want to know is , who was the brain surgeon that called a defensive play that had an outside linebacker on one of the top wide receivers in the NFL ?? Haslett was what before a head coach in New Orleans ??? [Edited on 16/12/2002 by saintz08]
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

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12-16-2002, 08:27 AM	#16
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	The 'defense' blows it again It didn\'t take too much imagination on my part to think I\'d log on today and see the same \'ol folks in here blaming yesterday on poor \'ol AB. When he got any kind of protection he threw the ball well. We he didn\'t (which happened far too often yesterday) he had problems. They came at him from all angles yesterday. I haven\'t heard anyone mention the offensive line yet. Their Pass Blocking was terrible, and their run blocking was even worse. Isn\'t it their job to block, or should AB do that too? You guys are just LOOKING for something to use against AB. How \'bout this novel idea -- Let\'s blame those responsibe. 1. The offensive line -- they sucked yesterday 2. The Defense -- All of it...all 11 players...just plain sucked 3. Coaches -- In particular Rick Venturi. Hodge on Moss? You gotta be kiddin\'. Say what you will about AB, but he played well enough to win yesterday (as he has done with maybe two exceptions this year). Say what you will about AB, and I know some of you will, but if any of you think AB was the reason we lost yesterday, then...well, then your ignorance is showing. Simple as that.
	C'mon Man...

12-16-2002, 09:44 AM	#17
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	The 'defense' blows it again Saintsfan Did you get that comin home to your favorite dog and your favorite slippers feelin . Shhhhhhh - Im a huntin defense . As Elmer Fudd might have said if he saw the game yesterday . 5 things I want to know . 1. Who draws a defensive play that puts an outside linebacker on a # 1 receiver in the NFL. To me that seems like a brain fart from the get go . What next , Norman Hand drops into coverage ??? 2. What was that dance step Sammy Knight was doing in the end zone when Moss caught that ball between Knight and Carter ?? 3. On the Viking 2 point conversion , Did Culpepper fumble it or did he reach into his sock and get a sharpie and sign the ball and then waltz into the endzone ?? 4. On the 2 point conversion , Did anyone in the Dome not think that Culpepper was going up the middle ??? That one seemed pretty obvious to me . 5. And last but not least , I will be the first to admit I am lacking on certain NFL league rules . So someone help me out here , I thought there was a rule in the NFL that a player in the last 2 minutes cannot fumble a ball forward and forward the ball into the end zone , ala Dave Casper , Oakland Raiders . [Edited on 16/12/2002 by saintz08]
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

12-16-2002, 10:08 AM	#18
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	The 'defense' blows it again Saintz08 -- My take on your \"5 things\" 1. Who draws a defensive play that puts an outside linebacker on a # 1 receiver in the NFL. To me that seems like a brain fart from the get go . What next , Norman Hand drops into coverage ??? I guess Rick Venturi does...blitz or not thats just stupid. I say fire him! 2. What was that dance step Sammy Knight was doing in the end zone when Moss caught that ball between Knight and Carter ?? I think Sammy and Dale were lining up for the Texas Two-Step. Honesty I\'m not as impressed with Carter as I thought I\'d be. Sammy\'s contract is up next year and, as much as I like him, after yesterday I\'m not so sure I\'ll be sad to see him go. 3. On the Viking 2 point conversion , Did Culpepper fumble it or did he reach into his sock and get a sharpie and sign the ball and then waltz into the endzone ?? I think he did both. 4. On the 2 point conversion , Did anyone in the Dome not think that Culpepper was going up the middle ??? That one seemed pretty obvious to me . Me too, and I\'m no brain child. I think there was one guy sittin way up in the South end zone that wasn\'t sure, but he\'d been drinkin heavily since the night before the game. 5. And last but not least , I will be the first to admit I am lacking on certain NFL league rules . So someone help me out here , I thought there was a rule in the NFL that a player in the last 2 minutes cannot fumble a ball forward and forward the ball into the end zone , ala Dave Casper , Oakland Raiders . I have to admit I\'m not sure about this one, but it makes sense to me. Either way, the officials are far too interested in petty holding calls and BS roughing the passer calls to actually worry about enforcing the basic rules of the game. Finally, did we actually just agree? Heavens to Betsy (Not sure what that means)! What are people in here gonna think?
	C'mon Man...

12-16-2002, 11:42 AM	#19
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	The 'defense' blows it again Well you guys are right on the nose. The offensive line stunk up the dome yesterday. The only part of the game that I see as worse was the play of the defense, or lack of it. They were terrible. As to who\'s fault it was, the defense playing so bad, I think it was a combination of players and coaches. It\'s hard to place the blame on AB, when he has a QB rating of over 100. I can only think what it might have been if he had any blocking. P.S. I kinda like the name Joe. :casstet:
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

12-16-2002, 01:34 PM	#20
KeithRK Rookie Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1	The 'defense' blows it again I found an answer regarding the question above on advancing a fumble. According to NFL.com, on the extra try, only the player who fumbles the ball may pick it up and advance it. http://ww2.nfl.com/fans/rules/try.html
KeithRK Rookie Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1