Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?

jeanpierre · 01-22-2013, 05:01 AM

Should the Saints be in a 3-4 defense - this would be where current personnel would likely line up reflecting current free agents not on the roster...

LDE Cam Jordan, Junior Galette
NT Brodrick Bunkley, Akiem Hicks
RDE Will Smith, Tom Johnson

MIKE Curtis Lofton, Ramon Humber
SAM David Hawthorne, Will Herring
WILL Jonathan Vilma, Jonathan Casillas, Chris Chamberlain
JACK Martez Wilson

LCB Jabari Greer, Elbert Mack
SS Roman Harper, Rafael Bush
FS Malcolm Jenkins, Isa Abdul-Quddus, Jerico Nelson
RCB Patrick Robinson, Johnny Patrick

As you can see there are many issues - the most obvious is at LB...

Vilma departed the Jets because he couldn't play in a 3-4; that, along with his cap number would definitely make him a cap casualty; Casillas has shown an inability to shed blockers, stand ground, or make plays so he'd be gone...

Hawthorn and Herring would be fine at the SAM; but Herring's Cap Number would would require he start at the WILL Backer...

Lofton and Humber at the MIKE; actually, I think Lofton would do well in the MIKE position...

While Martez Wilson needs to see the field, there's no depth behind him should he go down and moving Galette to OLB would be a disaster as he would have been drafted for that position if he had this quickness/speed...

Which leads to the DE position where Will Smith would not make a good 3-4 DE because his inability to hold the point of attack and occupy multiple blockers as the DL in a 3-4 must do to allow the attacking LB to make tackles, plays...

So, at the least, we'd need another DE, three more LB; and that's before we fix a dysfunctional secondary...

Disclosure - Now, I like the 3-4 and I loved to see Wilson at the JACK position; but this is what drives me crazy about the Saints Personnel department; if you can't max him on film to command a good compensation in a trade, and you're not going to play him, then WTF are you drafting players like this?!?

And this is why I'm so critical of Loomis and how he should already be improving the personnel department of this team that has really let this franchise down...

hagan714 · 01-22-2013, 09:03 AM

omg the annual 34 vs 43 off season debate has begun for 2013

i went back and look at 2011 season and as rookie he did seem lost at times in coverage but what rookie is not? not like he was 1st round pick

i still say if this experiment at de is to continue he needs to be a stand up de.

BUT i still see enough promise in him to use him at LB once and while in a game and drill him in practice in his pass coverage skills. Have him cover Graham and Sproles in practice. that should help.

he can play a 34 but i still believe he can adapt to a 43 with coaching and give the saints something they need. SPEED and SIZE at LB.

Dude is a 3 to 4 year project in my book. In the mean time i want to see his special team play improve big time. well the whole unit needs to.

Plus now that Vit is done with his HC duties i am looking for him to take Wilson back into the fold at LB. Wilson has experience at DE and that will help him play LB. He has a better idea of how to react to what the DE is doing. well i hope he did learn something

Sum it up i still see enough hope in him to keep him around for another year or two

lumm0x · 01-22-2013, 10:53 AM

I am a huge 3-4 proponent. But we don't have the coach to run it or the personnel to do it as a full time base defense. I thing Gregg Williams had it right when he was making us a hybrid mixture of defenses. Lining us up in a variety of looks was an effective technique with the 4-3 being our traditional alignment.

I'd really like to see us upgrade the safety position and go back to an aggressive blitzing defense running a variation of Buddy Ryan's old 42 defense.

saintsfan403 · 01-24-2013, 05:42 PM

I say keep him at d-end, he was showing a lot of improvement towards the end of the season and he could be a wicked speed rusher with some work.
it doesn't matter where they put him if they have that bag of trash ellis rushing up the middle

CharityMike · 01-24-2013, 06:57 PM

Well we about to find out..lol

hagan714 · 01-24-2013, 11:56 PM

your right mike this will be fun to watch as micky guts the defense for the 34 move

CharityMike · 01-25-2013, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

your right mike this will be fun to watch as micky guts the defense for the 34 move

It's a little scary but I am as excited as a fat kid is a bakery! Change is always scary but without change there can be no progress!!

Crusader · 01-25-2013, 01:17 AM

jeanpierre · 01-25-2013, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Should the Saints be in a 3-4 defense - this would be where current personnel would likely line up reflecting current free agents not on the roster...

LDE Cam Jordan, Junior Galette
NT Brodrick Bunkley, Akiem Hicks
RDE Will Smith, Tom Johnson

MIKE Curtis Lofton, Ramon Humber
SAM David Hawthorne, Will Herring
WILL Jonathan Vilma, Jonathan Casillas, Chris Chamberlain
JACK Martez Wilson

LCB Jabari Greer, Elbert Mack
SS Roman Harper, Rafael Bush
FS Malcolm Jenkins, Isa Abdul-Quddus, Jerico Nelson
RCB Patrick Robinson, Johnny Patrick

As you can see there are many issues - the most obvious is at LB...

Vilma departed the Jets because he couldn't play in a 3-4; that, along with his cap number would definitely make him a cap casualty; Casillas has shown an inability to shed blockers, stand ground, or make plays so he'd be gone...

Hawthorn and Herring would be fine at the SAM; but Herring's Cap Number would would require he start at the WILL Backer...

Lofton and Humber at the MIKE; actually, I think Lofton would do well in the MIKE position...

While Martez Wilson needs to see the field, there's no depth behind him should he go down and moving Galette to OLB would be a disaster as he would have been drafted for that position if he had this quickness/speed...

Which leads to the DE position where Will Smith would not make a good 3-4 DE because his inability to hold the point of attack and occupy multiple blockers as the DL in a 3-4 must do to allow the attacking LB to make tackles, plays...

So, at the least, we'd need another DE, three more LB; and that's before we fix a dysfunctional secondary...

Disclosure - Now, I like the 3-4 and I loved to see Wilson at the JACK position; but this is what drives me crazy about the Saints Personnel department; if you can't max him on film to command a good compensation in a trade, and you're not going to play him, then WTF are you drafting players like this?!?

And this is why I'm so critical of Loomis and how he should already be improving the personnel department of this team that has really let this franchise down...

Originally Posted by hagan714

omg the annual 34 vs 43 off season debate has begun for 2013

i went back and look at 2011 season and as rookie he did seem lost at times in coverage but what rookie is not? not like he was 1st round pick

i still say if this experiment at de is to continue he needs to be a stand up de.

BUT i still see enough promise in him to use him at LB once and while in a game and drill him in practice in his pass coverage skills. Have him cover Graham and Sproles in practice. that should help.

he can play a 34 but i still believe he can adapt to a 43 with coaching and give the saints something they need. SPEED and SIZE at LB.

Dude is a 3 to 4 year project in my book. In the mean time i want to see his special team play improve big time. well the whole unit needs to.

Plus now that Vit is done with his HC duties i am looking for him to take Wilson back into the fold at LB. Wilson has experience at DE and that will help him play LB. He has a better idea of how to react to what the DE is doing. well i hope he did learn something

Sum it up i still see enough hope in him to keep him around for another year or two

Wow...Finally...

Coach Payton shows why he's the best...he plays to the strengths of his guys and doesn't try to force a system that isn't there...

FinSaint · 01-25-2013, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Wow...Finally...

Coach Payton shows why he's the best...he plays to the strengths of his guys and doesn't try to force a system that isn't there...

So, the question remains then: why did they (SP at the forefront) hire Spags in the first place if his system was so wrong for the players the Saints had/have?!

Was Spags himself another square peg the organization tried to force into a round hole - not letting him play to his strengths, but forcing him to adapt to the situation and become something he is not?!

01-22-2013, 05:01 AM	#21
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE? Should the Saints be in a 3-4 defense - this would be where current personnel would likely line up reflecting current free agents not on the roster... LDE Cam Jordan, Junior Galette NT Brodrick Bunkley, Akiem Hicks RDE Will Smith, Tom Johnson MIKE Curtis Lofton, Ramon Humber SAM David Hawthorne, Will Herring WILL Jonathan Vilma, Jonathan Casillas, Chris Chamberlain JACK Martez Wilson LCB Jabari Greer, Elbert Mack SS Roman Harper, Rafael Bush FS Malcolm Jenkins, Isa Abdul-Quddus, Jerico Nelson RCB Patrick Robinson, Johnny Patrick As you can see there are many issues - the most obvious is at LB... Vilma departed the Jets because he couldn't play in a 3-4; that, along with his cap number would definitely make him a cap casualty; Casillas has shown an inability to shed blockers, stand ground, or make plays so he'd be gone... Hawthorn and Herring would be fine at the SAM; but Herring's Cap Number would would require he start at the WILL Backer... Lofton and Humber at the MIKE; actually, I think Lofton would do well in the MIKE position... While Martez Wilson needs to see the field, there's no depth behind him should he go down and moving Galette to OLB would be a disaster as he would have been drafted for that position if he had this quickness/speed... Which leads to the DE position where Will Smith would not make a good 3-4 DE because his inability to hold the point of attack and occupy multiple blockers as the DL in a 3-4 must do to allow the attacking LB to make tackles, plays... So, at the least, we'd need another DE, three more LB; and that's before we fix a dysfunctional secondary... Disclosure - Now, I like the 3-4 and I loved to see Wilson at the JACK position; but this is what drives me crazy about the Saints Personnel department; if you can't max him on film to command a good compensation in a trade, and you're not going to play him, then WTF are you drafting players like this?!? And this is why I'm so critical of Loomis and how he should already be improving the personnel department of this team that has really let this franchise down...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

01-22-2013, 09:03 AM	#22
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE? omg the annual 34 vs 43 off season debate has begun for 2013 i went back and look at 2011 season and as rookie he did seem lost at times in coverage but what rookie is not? not like he was 1st round pick i still say if this experiment at de is to continue he needs to be a stand up de. BUT i still see enough promise in him to use him at LB once and while in a game and drill him in practice in his pass coverage skills. Have him cover Graham and Sproles in practice. that should help. he can play a 34 but i still believe he can adapt to a 43 with coaching and give the saints something they need. SPEED and SIZE at LB. Dude is a 3 to 4 year project in my book. In the mean time i want to see his special team play improve big time. well the whole unit needs to. Plus now that Vit is done with his HC duties i am looking for him to take Wilson back into the fold at LB. Wilson has experience at DE and that will help him play LB. He has a better idea of how to react to what the DE is doing. well i hope he did learn something Sum it up i still see enough hope in him to keep him around for another year or two
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 01-22-2013 at 09:21 AM..

01-22-2013, 10:53 AM	#23
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE? I am a huge 3-4 proponent. But we don't have the coach to run it or the personnel to do it as a full time base defense. I thing Gregg Williams had it right when he was making us a hybrid mixture of defenses. Lining us up in a variety of looks was an effective technique with the 4-3 being our traditional alignment. I'd really like to see us upgrade the safety position and go back to an aggressive blitzing defense running a variation of Buddy Ryan's old 42 defense.

01-24-2013, 05:42 PM	#24
saintsfan403 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: WHO DAT NATION Posts: 2,261	Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE? I say keep him at d-end, he was showing a lot of improvement towards the end of the season and he could be a wicked speed rusher with some work. it doesn't matter where they put him if they have that bag of trash ellis rushing up the middle

01-24-2013, 06:57 PM	#25
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE? Well we about to find out..lol SloMotion likes this.

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01-24-2013, 11:56 PM	#26
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE? your right mike this will be fun to watch as micky guts the defense for the 34 move

01-25-2013, 12:41 AM	#27
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE? Originally Posted by hagan714 your right mike this will be fun to watch as micky guts the defense for the 34 move It's a little scary but I am as excited as a fat kid is a bakery! Change is always scary but without change there can be no progress!! Rugby Saint II and SloMotion like this.

01-25-2013, 01:17 AM	#28
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,025	Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE?

01-25-2013, 05:32 AM	#29
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE? Originally Posted by jeanpierre Should the Saints be in a 3-4 defense - this would be where current personnel would likely line up reflecting current free agents not on the roster... LDE Cam Jordan, Junior Galette NT Brodrick Bunkley, Akiem Hicks RDE Will Smith, Tom Johnson MIKE Curtis Lofton, Ramon Humber SAM David Hawthorne, Will Herring WILL Jonathan Vilma, Jonathan Casillas, Chris Chamberlain JACK Martez Wilson LCB Jabari Greer, Elbert Mack SS Roman Harper, Rafael Bush FS Malcolm Jenkins, Isa Abdul-Quddus, Jerico Nelson RCB Patrick Robinson, Johnny Patrick As you can see there are many issues - the most obvious is at LB... Vilma departed the Jets because he couldn't play in a 3-4; that, along with his cap number would definitely make him a cap casualty; Casillas has shown an inability to shed blockers, stand ground, or make plays so he'd be gone... Hawthorn and Herring would be fine at the SAM; but Herring's Cap Number would would require he start at the WILL Backer... Lofton and Humber at the MIKE; actually, I think Lofton would do well in the MIKE position... While Martez Wilson needs to see the field, there's no depth behind him should he go down and moving Galette to OLB would be a disaster as he would have been drafted for that position if he had this quickness/speed... Which leads to the DE position where Will Smith would not make a good 3-4 DE because his inability to hold the point of attack and occupy multiple blockers as the DL in a 3-4 must do to allow the attacking LB to make tackles, plays... So, at the least, we'd need another DE, three more LB; and that's before we fix a dysfunctional secondary... Disclosure - Now, I like the 3-4 and I loved to see Wilson at the JACK position; but this is what drives me crazy about the Saints Personnel department; if you can't max him on film to command a good compensation in a trade, and you're not going to play him, then WTF are you drafting players like this?!? And this is why I'm so critical of Loomis and how he should already be improving the personnel department of this team that has really let this franchise down... Originally Posted by hagan714 omg the annual 34 vs 43 off season debate has begun for 2013 i went back and look at 2011 season and as rookie he did seem lost at times in coverage but what rookie is not? not like he was 1st round pick i still say if this experiment at de is to continue he needs to be a stand up de. BUT i still see enough promise in him to use him at LB once and while in a game and drill him in practice in his pass coverage skills. Have him cover Graham and Sproles in practice. that should help. he can play a 34 but i still believe he can adapt to a 43 with coaching and give the saints something they need. SPEED and SIZE at LB. Dude is a 3 to 4 year project in my book. In the mean time i want to see his special team play improve big time. well the whole unit needs to. Plus now that Vit is done with his HC duties i am looking for him to take Wilson back into the fold at LB. Wilson has experience at DE and that will help him play LB. He has a better idea of how to react to what the DE is doing. well i hope he did learn something Sum it up i still see enough hope in him to keep him around for another year or two Wow...Finally... Coach Payton shows why he's the best...he plays to the strengths of his guys and doesn't try to force a system that isn't there...

01-25-2013, 06:25 AM	#30
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: Martez Wilson....LB'er or DE? Originally Posted by jeanpierre Wow...Finally... Coach Payton shows why he's the best...he plays to the strengths of his guys and doesn't try to force a system that isn't there... So, the question remains then: why did they (SP at the forefront) hire Spags in the first place if his system was so wrong for the players the Saints had/have?! Was Spags himself another square peg the organization tried to force into a round hole - not letting him play to his strengths, but forcing him to adapt to the situation and become something he is not?!

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