Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?

RaginCajun83 · 02-20-2013, 05:21 PM

Leaf had bust written all over him leading up to the draft but the Chargers were so desperate for a QB and media hype didn't help things. Doesn't matter that he's 1A or 1B when it comes to busts, he's still one of my favorite sound bytes "Knock it off, don't talk to me" that's PR 101

RaginCajun83 · 02-20-2013, 05:24 PM

Back on topic .... I'm seen guys that I've wanted the Saints to draft (J Patrick) and see them fail miserably and seen guys (T Porter) gives us the greatest moment in the history of the franchise. Being a scout has to be one of the hardest behind the scene jobs in sports because its a eye lash between being a genius and being unemployed

Seer1 · 02-20-2013, 05:38 PM

Do they really have much of a draft reputation? Seems to me their shining moments come about in other areas than the draft.

papz · 02-20-2013, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Well if you're of the opinion we need better scouts then obviously you think some teams are better than others at drafting, and better scouts equate to better drafting. So its obvious you agree that its not a crap shoot.

I do think we need some better scouts.

At the same time, I think there's a big difference between a crap shoot and a calculated crap shoot. That's why I can't dismiss either one of yours of saintfan's point. There's logic between both and the think the problem here lies within the word "crap shoot".

I don't agree the draft is "just" a crap shoot but I do agree it's a calculated gamble/crap shoot. Obviously, like gambling, some are better than others at it. Just a crap shoot would be saying the draft is all luck... which it isn't and not something I agree with either.

Danno · 02-20-2013, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Seer1

Do they really have much of a draft reputation? Seems to me their shining moments come about in other areas than the draft.

I started this thread because someone mentioned how well we drafted in later rounds. I looked and not only was that not true, the list I posted basically exposed our draft success as a myth. We've been pretty bad at it after 2006

saintfan · 02-20-2013, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by papz

I do think we need some better scouts.

At the same time, I think there's a big difference between a crap shoot and a calculated crap shoot. That's why I can't dismiss either one of yours of saintfan's point. There's logic between both and the think the problem here lies within the word "crap shoot".

I don't agree the draft is "just" a crap shoot but I do agree it's a calculated gamble/crap shoot. Obviously, like gambling, some are better than others at it. Just a crap shoot would be saying the draft is all luck... which it isn't and not something I agree with either.

Which is why I likened it to black jack. As I've said, there are some players who understand the game of black jack and therefore are less likely to get burned by the house, but no matter how good you are, if you play long enough, the house WILL win, because it's a gamble - a crap shoot.

The very same thing is true of the NFL draft. All the measureables in the world cannot, have not, do not, and will not prevent an otherwise educated drafter from a bust, be it slight, moderate, severe, or all three. It happens to them all because it isn't an exact science. It cannot be. There is no way to know who's game will translate and who's game won't. Two many cannot miss prospects fail. Too many 7th rounders or, for that matter, undrafted guys have amazing success. If there was a way to know then we wouldn't be here debating it because we could point to someone who has been consistently successful. We can't. That person doesn't exist. Those who have had success have had just as much failure.

Seer1 · 02-20-2013, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I started this thread because someone mentioned how well we drafted in later rounds. I looked and not only was that not true, the list I posted basically exposed our draft success as a myth. We've been pretty bad at it after 2006

I think I may have said that and I blame the martinis as my wife's out of town so can't shoulder any of it. I guess my perception is that we do much better in the middle and end of the draft than we do at the beginning. I don't have any numbers to prove it, but I'm thinking we pretty much suck at the draft in comparison to most of the other top teams.

Danno · 02-20-2013, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Seer1

I think I may have said that and I blame the martinis as my wife's out of town so can't shoulder any of it. I guess my perception is that we do much better in the middle and end of the draft than we do at the beginning. I don't have any numbers to prove it, but I'm thinking we pretty much suck at the draft in comparison to most of the other top teams.

No prob, I think we all thought that until recently. The 2009 draft opened my eyes. Could be the worst draft in Saint history. I truly think drawing names out of a hat would have yielded better results than that debacle.

2007 ain't much to brag about either. And with the exception of Graham, 2010 ain't looking so hot either unless P-Rob comes around.

RaginCajun83 · 02-20-2013, 06:56 PM

1979 has to be the worst draft ever, a P/K in the 1st round. What kind of drugs were they on back then?

Seer1 · 02-20-2013, 06:59 PM

As long as we're beatin' ourselves with a stick, don't forget Ricky Williams...

02-20-2013, 05:21 PM	#51
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Leaf had bust written all over him leading up to the draft but the Chargers were so desperate for a QB and media hype didn't help things. Doesn't matter that he's 1A or 1B when it comes to busts, he's still one of my favorite sound bytes "Knock it off, don't talk to me" that's PR 101

02-20-2013, 05:24 PM	#52
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Back on topic .... I'm seen guys that I've wanted the Saints to draft (J Patrick) and see them fail miserably and seen guys (T Porter) gives us the greatest moment in the history of the franchise. Being a scout has to be one of the hardest behind the scene jobs in sports because its a eye lash between being a genius and being unemployed

02-20-2013, 05:38 PM	#53
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Do they really have much of a draft reputation? Seems to me their shining moments come about in other areas than the draft. Danno likes this.

02-20-2013, 06:00 PM	#54
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,793	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by Danno Well if you're of the opinion we need better scouts then obviously you think some teams are better than others at drafting, and better scouts equate to better drafting. So its obvious you agree that its not a crap shoot. I do think we need some better scouts. At the same time, I think there's a big difference between a crap shoot and a calculated crap shoot. That's why I can't dismiss either one of yours of saintfan's point. There's logic between both and the think the problem here lies within the word "crap shoot". I don't agree the draft is "just" a crap shoot but I do agree it's a calculated gamble/crap shoot. Obviously, like gambling, some are better than others at it. Just a crap shoot would be saying the draft is all luck... which it isn't and not something I agree with either. Danno likes this.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

02-20-2013, 06:10 PM	#55
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,757	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by Seer1 Do they really have much of a draft reputation? Seems to me their shining moments come about in other areas than the draft. I started this thread because someone mentioned how well we drafted in later rounds. I looked and not only was that not true, the list I posted basically exposed our draft success as a myth. We've been pretty bad at it after 2006

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02-20-2013, 06:16 PM	#56
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by papz I do think we need some better scouts. At the same time, I think there's a big difference between a crap shoot and a calculated crap shoot. That's why I can't dismiss either one of yours of saintfan's point. There's logic between both and the think the problem here lies within the word "crap shoot". I don't agree the draft is "just" a crap shoot but I do agree it's a calculated gamble/crap shoot. Obviously, like gambling, some are better than others at it. Just a crap shoot would be saying the draft is all luck... which it isn't and not something I agree with either. Which is why I likened it to black jack. As I've said, there are some players who understand the game of black jack and therefore are less likely to get burned by the house, but no matter how good you are, if you play long enough, the house WILL win, because it's a gamble - a crap shoot. The very same thing is true of the NFL draft. All the measureables in the world cannot, have not, do not, and will not prevent an otherwise educated drafter from a bust, be it slight, moderate, severe, or all three. It happens to them all because it isn't an exact science. It cannot be. There is no way to know who's game will translate and who's game won't. Two many cannot miss prospects fail. Too many 7th rounders or, for that matter, undrafted guys have amazing success. If there was a way to know then we wouldn't be here debating it because we could point to someone who has been consistently successful. We can't. That person doesn't exist. Those who have had success have had just as much failure.
	C'mon Man... Last edited by saintfan; 02-20-2013 at 06:20 PM..

02-20-2013, 06:36 PM	#57
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by Danno I started this thread because someone mentioned how well we drafted in later rounds. I looked and not only was that not true, the list I posted basically exposed our draft success as a myth. We've been pretty bad at it after 2006 I think I may have said that and I blame the martinis as my wife's out of town so can't shoulder any of it. I guess my perception is that we do much better in the middle and end of the draft than we do at the beginning. I don't have any numbers to prove it, but I'm thinking we pretty much suck at the draft in comparison to most of the other top teams.

02-20-2013, 06:47 PM	#58
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,757	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by Seer1 I think I may have said that and I blame the martinis as my wife's out of town so can't shoulder any of it. I guess my perception is that we do much better in the middle and end of the draft than we do at the beginning. I don't have any numbers to prove it, but I'm thinking we pretty much suck at the draft in comparison to most of the other top teams. No prob, I think we all thought that until recently. The 2009 draft opened my eyes. Could be the worst draft in Saint history. I truly think drawing names out of a hat would have yielded better results than that debacle. 2007 ain't much to brag about either. And with the exception of Graham, 2010 ain't looking so hot either unless P-Rob comes around.

02-20-2013, 06:56 PM	#59
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? 1979 has to be the worst draft ever, a P/K in the 1st round. What kind of drugs were they on back then?

02-20-2013, 06:59 PM	#60
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? As long as we're beatin' ourselves with a stick, don't forget Ricky Williams...

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