Hope the Saints don't draft this guy - OLB Jarvis Jones

papz · 03-21-2013, 08:20 PM

So he's not a workout warrior. It's not a big deal to me. I'm more concerned about production and he has a great track record.

If we shy away from the guy because of his health condition, fine... completely understandable. But if it's because he runs a poor 40, I think it would be a mistake. He's exactly what he's advertised as... a pass rusher. He's not a guy where you would drop him back in coverage and track TE's.

Another example of a guy who did abysmal in his workouts... Vontaze Burfict. He was an absolute stud for the Bengals last year.

saintsfan1976 · 03-21-2013, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by papz

So he's not a workout warrior. It's not a big deal to me. I'm more concerned about production and he has a great track record.

If we shy away from the guy because of his health condition, fine... completely understandable. But if it's because he runs a poor 40, I think it would be a mistake. He's exactly what he's advertised as... a pass rusher. He's not a guy where you would drop him back in coverage and track TE's.

Another example of a guy who did abysmal in his workouts... Vontaze Burfict. He was an absolute stud for the Bengals last year.

If he can't rush AND cover, then he's not a top 15 pick IMO.

Mingo , Jordan and Ansah seem to have him beat there.

papz · 03-21-2013, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

If he can't rush AND cover, then he's not a top 15 pick IMO.

Mingo , Jordan and Ansah seem to have him beat there.

That depends if you think he's going to be a consistent double digit sack guy throughout his career. Because if he is, he'd definitely be worth a top 15 selection.

Look at Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil, Aldon Smith, among others. The reason why they're on the football field is to get to the quarterback. Athletically speaking, Miller and Smith are far superior to Jones. But I'm not comparing their athleticism... but their main purpose on the field. It's not to cover.

With that said, maybe we're evaluating him to see if it makes sense to take him lower in the first round... which quite a few people are advocating for us to do. Got to explore all our options.

rezburna · 03-21-2013, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

If he can't rush AND cover, then he's not a top 15 pick IMO.

Mingo , Jordan and Ansah seem to have him beat there.

none of those players covered anybody in college. They were all defensive ends. Jones converted from safety to LB.

papz · 03-21-2013, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

none of those players covered anybody in college. They were all defensive ends. Jones converted from safety to LB.

I think you have some of that mixed up. Ogletree was a former safety that moved to LB not Jones. Jordan covered receivers and TE's routinely at Oregon.

jcp026 · 03-21-2013, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

If he can't rush AND cover, then he's not a top 15 pick IMO.

Mingo , Jordan and Ansah seem to have him beat there.

I don't think he's a one trick pony. This is from his draft profile on nfl.com:

ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS Versatile linebacker with a chance to play inside or outside. Possesses a very good first step to pressure tackles’ upfield shoulder. Also has closing speed to finish the deal and short-area quickness to keep contain outside and crash down on inside runs. Strong tackler with excellent length and upper-body strength to wrap up ball carriers. Gets under the pads of tackles, keeps his feet churning, to maintain leverage whether holding the edge or bulling his man backwards. Brings heavy hands, can rip off to get around the edge or cut inside to stop quarterbacks from stepping up in the pocket. Works through double-teams if the quarterback hangs onto the ball in the pocket. Holds his ground against pulling guards and fullbacks. Capable of locking up tight ends off the edge in coverage, also sorts out multiple routes in his direction to make a play on the correct one. Gets his hands up to affect passing lanes.

WEAKNESSES One-year starter. Inconsistent using his hands to disengage from better blocks and to beat cut blocks from running backs in pass pro. Lacks an ideal frame to get much bigger and doesn’t have the growth potential to the bulk teams want at the position. Will need to prove he can stay with NFL ball carriers in space when dropping into the flat. Not particularly smooth in deep drops. Doesn’t have elite bend around the corner, and could use a spin or other counter move to keep tackles guessing. Missed the last five games of the 2009 with a neck injury, part of his senior year in high school with a broken thumb. There is some concern about his long-term durability due to his spinal stenosis condition, the same ailment that has caused some players to call it quits, including Marcus McNeill, Chris Samuels and Michael Irvin.

SmashMouth · 03-21-2013, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by papz

So he's not a workout warrior. It's not a big deal to me. I'm more concerned about production and he has a great track record.

If we shy away from the guy because of his health condition, fine... completely understandable. But if it's because he runs a poor 40, I think it would be a mistake. He's exactly what he's advertised as... a pass rusher. He's not a guy where you would drop him back in coverage and track TE's.

Another example of a guy who did abysmal in his workouts... Vontaze Burfict. He was an absolute stud for the Bengals last year.

Spinal Stenosis is not your average risky medical condition. Last time I checked, they do hit just a wee bit harder in the NFL.

CharityMike · 03-22-2013, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Spinal Stenosis is not your average risky medical condition. Last time I checked, they do hit just a wee bit harder in the NFL.

You guys need to relax on this Spinal thing. It was mis-diagnosed. There was a big write up about it. I don't have time to go find the link but its out there. He is totally medically cleared.

FinSaint · 03-22-2013, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by CharityMike

You guys need to relax on this Spinal thing. It was mis-diagnosed. There was a big write up about it. I don't have time to go find the link but its out there. He is totally medically cleared.

Exactly, I was wary of him earlier because of the medical situation with his spine, but since then it's been cleared and therefore I don't see any medical reason not to pick him.

I haven't seen him play though, so I really have to rely on scout reports and what you guys are saying about him.

burningmetal · 03-22-2013, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by papz

So he's not a workout warrior. It's not a big deal to me. I'm more concerned about production and he has a great track record.

If we shy away from the guy because of his health condition, fine... completely understandable. But if it's because he runs a poor 40, I think it would be a mistake. He's exactly what he's advertised as... a pass rusher. He's not a guy where you would drop him back in coverage and track TE's.

Another example of a guy who did abysmal in his workouts... Vontaze Burfict. He was an absolute stud for the Bengals last year.

Exactly. Who cares about workouts when you've done what Jarvis has.

Speaking of Burfict, I can remember hearing people rave about is speed and athleticism going back to his high school days. When the draft came around and I heard his stock was tumbling, I couldn't believe it. He had apparently gotten lazy and consequently out of shape, causing a poor showing at the combine, or pro day (don't remember which one). I kept saying that if we take a flyer on him late and light a fire under him, it would be a major steal. I could've been wrong, but as it turned out, he made the Bengals look like geniuses.

There's nothing more annoying than listening to some annoying person like Mike Mayock overreacting to everything they see in a workout. " I tell ya what. Thith Jarvith Jonth guy ith really gonna be a rithky pick for whoever pickth him. He'th put up great numberth, but you worry a little when you thee that 40 time"

Can it, Mayock. You've made a fool of yourself enough times.

03-21-2013, 08:20 PM	#1
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,802	Re: Hope the Saints don't draft this guy - OLB Jarvis Jones So he's not a workout warrior. It's not a big deal to me. I'm more concerned about production and he has a great track record. If we shy away from the guy because of his health condition, fine... completely understandable. But if it's because he runs a poor 40, I think it would be a mistake. He's exactly what he's advertised as... a pass rusher. He's not a guy where you would drop him back in coverage and track TE's. Another example of a guy who did abysmal in his workouts... Vontaze Burfict. He was an absolute stud for the Bengals last year. FinSaint, CharityMike and burningmetal like this.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

03-21-2013, 08:24 PM	#2
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 11,104 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Hope the Saints don't draft this guy - OLB Jarvis Jones Originally Posted by papz So he's not a workout warrior. It's not a big deal to me. I'm more concerned about production and he has a great track record. If we shy away from the guy because of his health condition, fine... completely understandable. But if it's because he runs a poor 40, I think it would be a mistake. He's exactly what he's advertised as... a pass rusher. He's not a guy where you would drop him back in coverage and track TE's. Another example of a guy who did abysmal in his workouts... Vontaze Burfict. He was an absolute stud for the Bengals last year. If he can't rush AND cover, then he's not a top 15 pick IMO. Mingo , Jordan and Ansah seem to have him beat there.

03-21-2013, 08:30 PM	#3
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,802	Re: Hope the Saints don't draft this guy - OLB Jarvis Jones Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 If he can't rush AND cover, then he's not a top 15 pick IMO. Mingo , Jordan and Ansah seem to have him beat there. That depends if you think he's going to be a consistent double digit sack guy throughout his career. Because if he is, he'd definitely be worth a top 15 selection. Look at Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil, Aldon Smith, among others. The reason why they're on the football field is to get to the quarterback. Athletically speaking, Miller and Smith are far superior to Jones. But I'm not comparing their athleticism... but their main purpose on the field. It's not to cover. With that said, maybe we're evaluating him to see if it makes sense to take him lower in the first round... which quite a few people are advocating for us to do. Got to explore all our options. davegriff likes this.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

03-21-2013, 09:19 PM	#4
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,245	Re: Hope the Saints don't draft this guy - OLB Jarvis Jones Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 If he can't rush AND cover, then he's not a top 15 pick IMO. Mingo , Jordan and Ansah seem to have him beat there. none of those players covered anybody in college. They were all defensive ends. Jones converted from safety to LB. Rugby Saint II likes this.

03-21-2013, 09:25 PM	#5
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,802	Re: Hope the Saints don't draft this guy - OLB Jarvis Jones Originally Posted by rezburna none of those players covered anybody in college. They were all defensive ends. Jones converted from safety to LB. I think you have some of that mixed up. Ogletree was a former safety that moved to LB not Jones. Jordan covered receivers and TE's routinely at Oregon. FinSaint likes this.

03-21-2013, 10:32 PM	#6
jcp026 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 955	Re: Hope the Saints don't draft this guy - OLB Jarvis Jones Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 If he can't rush AND cover, then he's not a top 15 pick IMO. Mingo , Jordan and Ansah seem to have him beat there. I don't think he's a one trick pony. This is from his draft profile on nfl.com: ANALYSIS STRENGTHS Versatile linebacker with a chance to play inside or outside. Possesses a very good first step to pressure tackles’ upfield shoulder. Also has closing speed to finish the deal and short-area quickness to keep contain outside and crash down on inside runs. Strong tackler with excellent length and upper-body strength to wrap up ball carriers. Gets under the pads of tackles, keeps his feet churning, to maintain leverage whether holding the edge or bulling his man backwards. Brings heavy hands, can rip off to get around the edge or cut inside to stop quarterbacks from stepping up in the pocket. Works through double-teams if the quarterback hangs onto the ball in the pocket. Holds his ground against pulling guards and fullbacks. Capable of locking up tight ends off the edge in coverage, also sorts out multiple routes in his direction to make a play on the correct one. Gets his hands up to affect passing lanes. WEAKNESSES One-year starter. Inconsistent using his hands to disengage from better blocks and to beat cut blocks from running backs in pass pro. Lacks an ideal frame to get much bigger and doesn’t have the growth potential to the bulk teams want at the position. Will need to prove he can stay with NFL ball carriers in space when dropping into the flat. Not particularly smooth in deep drops. Doesn’t have elite bend around the corner, and could use a spin or other counter move to keep tackles guessing. Missed the last five games of the 2009 with a neck injury, part of his senior year in high school with a broken thumb. There is some concern about his long-term durability due to his spinal stenosis condition, the same ailment that has caused some players to call it quits, including Marcus McNeill, Chris Samuels and Michael Irvin.
jcp026 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 955

03-21-2013, 08:46 PM	#7
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 39,277 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Hope the Saints don't draft this guy - OLB Jarvis Jones Originally Posted by papz So he's not a workout warrior. It's not a big deal to me. I'm more concerned about production and he has a great track record. If we shy away from the guy because of his health condition, fine... completely understandable. But if it's because he runs a poor 40, I think it would be a mistake. He's exactly what he's advertised as... a pass rusher. He's not a guy where you would drop him back in coverage and track TE's. Another example of a guy who did abysmal in his workouts... Vontaze Burfict. He was an absolute stud for the Bengals last year. Spinal Stenosis is not your average risky medical condition. Last time I checked, they do hit just a wee bit harder in the NFL.

03-22-2013, 08:44 AM	#8
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	Re: Hope the Saints don't draft this guy - OLB Jarvis Jones Originally Posted by SmashMouth Spinal Stenosis is not your average risky medical condition. Last time I checked, they do hit just a wee bit harder in the NFL. You guys need to relax on this Spinal thing. It was mis-diagnosed. There was a big write up about it. I don't have time to go find the link but its out there. He is totally medically cleared. FinSaint and burningmetal like this.

03-22-2013, 09:29 AM	#9
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	Re: Hope the Saints don't draft this guy - OLB Jarvis Jones Originally Posted by CharityMike You guys need to relax on this Spinal thing. It was mis-diagnosed. There was a big write up about it. I don't have time to go find the link but its out there. He is totally medically cleared. Exactly, I was wary of him earlier because of the medical situation with his spine, but since then it's been cleared and therefore I don't see any medical reason not to pick him. I haven't seen him play though, so I really have to rely on scout reports and what you guys are saying about him.

03-22-2013, 09:35 AM	#10
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Hope the Saints don't draft this guy - OLB Jarvis Jones Originally Posted by papz So he's not a workout warrior. It's not a big deal to me. I'm more concerned about production and he has a great track record. If we shy away from the guy because of his health condition, fine... completely understandable. But if it's because he runs a poor 40, I think it would be a mistake. He's exactly what he's advertised as... a pass rusher. He's not a guy where you would drop him back in coverage and track TE's. Another example of a guy who did abysmal in his workouts... Vontaze Burfict. He was an absolute stud for the Bengals last year. Exactly. Who cares about workouts when you've done what Jarvis has. Speaking of Burfict, I can remember hearing people rave about is speed and athleticism going back to his high school days. When the draft came around and I heard his stock was tumbling, I couldn't believe it. He had apparently gotten lazy and consequently out of shape, causing a poor showing at the combine, or pro day (don't remember which one). I kept saying that if we take a flyer on him late and light a fire under him, it would be a major steal. I could've been wrong, but as it turned out, he made the Bengals look like geniuses. There's nothing more annoying than listening to some annoying person like Mike Mayock overreacting to everything they see in a workout. " I tell ya what. Thith Jarvith Jonth guy ith really gonna be a rithky pick for whoever pickth him. He'th put up great numberth, but you worry a little when you thee that 40 time" Can it, Mayock. You've made a fool of yourself enough times. Shoe. likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

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