James Harrison to Saints?

burningmetal · 03-26-2013, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by nycsaintfan

Considering the problems we've had with this pass rush, I can't see how anyone would not want Harrison on this team. Granted he is getting up in age, and not the player he once was, if we can get him for the right price its a chance worth taking.

My two personal reasons why I don't want him are this:

1- He's a major douche bag (not good for team chemistry).
2- He isn't simply not as good as he used to be. He's not even close.

The fact that he's 35 doesn't help, but if the first two reasons didn't apply, then I would take him at a low cost.

WhoDat!656 · 03-26-2013, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

My two personal reasons why I don't want him are this:

1- He's a major douche bag (not good for team chemistry).

What exactly about him makes him a 'major douche bag'? I know he has gotten a lot personal foul calls and been penalized a lot by Dar Kommissar.
2- He isn't simply not as good as he used to be. He's not even close.

The fact that he's 35 doesn't help, but if the first two reasons didn't apply, then I would take him at a low cost.

There will probably be a lot of people on this forum saying the same thing about Brees when he gets to that age.

The Saints defense needs all the play-makers we can get; I am fairly certain that you would agree to that.

I wouldn't sign Harrison if it meant the Saints wouldn't have the cap space left to sign Butler or a decent FA LT!!

frydaddy · 03-27-2013, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

There will probably be a lot of people on this forum saying the same thing about Brees when he gets to that age.

Well my friend, while I don't doubt that you're right about there being people who'll say that, I would counter by saying that there is a pretty huge difference between a 35 year old qb and a 35 year old pass rusher. The idea is to stay upright as much as possible as a qb. As a pass rusher there are a couple of things you need for success. The ability to take on and fight through blocks, and closing speed to the qb. These are the things I worry about Harrison lacking at this point in his career. Might he still have something left in the tank? Sure, but I tend to think probably not. Apparently the steelers have informed him theres no chance of him coming back, even though he expressed a desire to come back, and had to have been willing to take significantly less money considering lack of interest on the open market. I just don't see it. I really doubt it would actually happen anyway, so *shrug*

burningmetal · 03-27-2013, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

There will probably be a lot of people on this forum saying the same thing about Brees when he gets to that age.

The Saints defense needs all the play-makers we can get; I am fairly certain that you would agree to that.

I wouldn't sign Harrison if it meant the Saints wouldn't have the cap space left to sign Butler or a decent FA LT!!

QB's can play a long time when healthy. Pass rushers lose their quickness and speed much faster, and the decline is usually rapid, as has been the case over the last two years with Harrison. QB's don't need that. He's a system player, and we have guys in house who have a great chance to succeed without bringing in a 35 year old loud mouth who has had problems staying healthy recently.

That last part might be the biggest concern, physically speaking. He has been hurt, and at his age, the decline is highly likely to continue at a rapid pace.

Some of you have the opinion that he's good enough. That's fine. But I'm going on what I have seen over and over with players like him, at this stage of their career, and I have drawn the conclusion that I'd rather not have anything to do with him.

nycsaintfan · 03-27-2013, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

My two personal reasons why I don't want him are this:

1- He's a major douche bag (not good for team chemistry).
2- He isn't simply not as good as he used to be. He's not even close.

The fact that he's 35 doesn't help, but if the first two reasons didn't apply, then I would take him at a low cost.

I think there are enough veterans in the Saints clubhouse that can keep his personality in check. I agree that he is not the player that he once was. But with that said, if you are getting Harrison at a reasonable price with incentives writing into the contract, it might be a chance worth taking. At this point there aren't many pass rushers on the market. Harrison would fill a need and it would not be a long term investment.

Of course this is all speculation at this point.

lsutigerfan · 03-27-2013, 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

My two personal reasons why I don't want him are this:

1- He's a major douche bag (not good for team chemistry).
2- He isn't simply not as good as he used to be. He's not even close.

The fact that he's 35 doesn't help, but if the first two reasons didn't apply, then I would take him at a low cost.

I don't ever remember him being in trouble off the field. In fact, the only thing I do remember is him beating the hell out of QB's, if that's the douch bag you're talking about I'll take it. Sign that douch bag!

burningmetal · 03-27-2013, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by lsutigerfan

I don't ever remember him being in trouble off the field. In fact, the only thing I do remember is him beating the hell out of QB's, if that's the douch bag you're talking about I'll take it. Sign that douch bag!

I didn't say he was in trouble. I said he's a douche bag, and that is precisely what I mean. He's always running his mouth about everything, and while I kind of laugh at his remarks about Goodell (because there have been some unfair fines sent his way), he DOES take a lot of cheap shots on players. I'm all for playing the game with intensity. You can't have success without intensity. But there is a lack of integrity in a person who just runs around like a kamikaze trying to knock everyone's head off. Hard hits are great, but when you can clearly see a guy coming and you intentionally hit him in the head, that is unacceptable.

I've often complained about all the helmet to helmet rules, because it's usually incidental contact that ends up being flagged. But I'm not for a guy who clearly does that crap on purpose. And then he whines and says he's being unfairly treated. Like I said, his reputation has led to some unfair fines, but there's no way he can try to convince anyone that he isn't a dirty player.

Does this answer your question?

TheOak · 03-27-2013, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

My two personal reasons why I don't want him are this:

1- He's a major douche bag (not good for team chemistry).
2- He isn't simply not as good as he used to be. He's not even close.

The fact that he's 35 doesn't help, but if the first two reasons didn't apply, then I would take him at a low cost.

His "not as good as he used to be" sack numbers for 2012 are higher than any Saints LB in the last 5 years, and right with our DEs.

Harrison 2012: 6 sacks

Vilmas Best = 4 in 2010
Shanles Best = 4 in 2008
Loftons Best = 2 in 2010
Hawthornes Best = 4 in 2009

His attitude is similar to Kyle Turley, or Shockey.. And I have bromance for those guys.

While some would find his comment to Ben Roethlisberger offensive (Roethlisberger fans)... it was spot on and echoed what many people in these forums said about Drews INTs last year.

“Hey, at least throw a pick on their side of the field instead of asking the D to bail you out again,” Harrison said. “Or hand the ball off and stop trying to act like Peyton Manning. You ain’t that and you know it, man; you just get paid like he does.”

I would not say we want James Harrison, I would say we need James Harrison... Because quite frankly our other LB options are not as good. In the this case a downgrade for the Steelers is an upgrade for us.

FinSaint · 03-27-2013, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

His "not as good as he used to be" sack numbers for 2012 are higher than any Saints LB in the last 5 years, and right with our DEs.

Harrison 2012: 6 sacks

Vilmas Best = 4 in 2010
Shanles Best = 4 in 2008
Loftons Best = 2 in 2010
Hawthornes Best = 4 in 2009

None of the four LBs that played or play for the Saints have been rushing OLBs in a 3-4 defense as far as I know, which would put the validity of the comparison into question.

burningmetal · 03-27-2013, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

None of the four LBs that played or play for the Saints have been rushing OLBs in a 3-4 defense as far as I know, which would put the validity of the comparison into question.

I was just getting ready to reply with exactly this. We did not have a system that called for our linebackers to rush. Henceforth, we did not acquire pass rushing linebackers.

Vilma was a great player when we got him, but he did not come with a reputation as a pass rusher. Same with Lofton. Hawthorne is another middle linebacker who has had to play on the outside. We have Wilson and Gallette who are more than capable of being pass rush specialists.

Harrison would not have succeeded in a 4-3, either.

03-26-2013, 10:49 PM	#1
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: James Harrison to Saints? Originally Posted by nycsaintfan Considering the problems we've had with this pass rush, I can't see how anyone would not want Harrison on this team. Granted he is getting up in age, and not the player he once was, if we can get him for the right price its a chance worth taking. My two personal reasons why I don't want him are this: 1- He's a major douche bag (not good for team chemistry). 2- He isn't simply not as good as he used to be. He's not even close. The fact that he's 35 doesn't help, but if the first two reasons didn't apply, then I would take him at a low cost. FinSaint likes this.

03-26-2013, 11:02 PM	#2
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,092	Re: James Harrison to Saints? Originally Posted by burningmetal My two personal reasons why I don't want him are this: 1- He's a major douche bag (not good for team chemistry). What exactly about him makes him a 'major douche bag'? I know he has gotten a lot personal foul calls and been penalized a lot by Dar Kommissar. 2- He isn't simply not as good as he used to be. He's not even close. The fact that he's 35 doesn't help, but if the first two reasons didn't apply, then I would take him at a low cost. There will probably be a lot of people on this forum saying the same thing about Brees when he gets to that age. The Saints defense needs all the play-makers we can get; I am fairly certain that you would agree to that. I wouldn't sign Harrison if it meant the Saints wouldn't have the cap space left to sign Butler or a decent FA LT!!

03-27-2013, 12:30 AM	#3
frydaddy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Lafayette Posts: 1,964 Blog Entries: 1	Re: James Harrison to Saints? Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 There will probably be a lot of people on this forum saying the same thing about Brees when he gets to that age. Well my friend, while I don't doubt that you're right about there being people who'll say that, I would counter by saying that there is a pretty huge difference between a 35 year old qb and a 35 year old pass rusher. The idea is to stay upright as much as possible as a qb. As a pass rusher there are a couple of things you need for success. The ability to take on and fight through blocks, and closing speed to the qb. These are the things I worry about Harrison lacking at this point in his career. Might he still have something left in the tank? Sure, but I tend to think probably not. Apparently the steelers have informed him theres no chance of him coming back, even though he expressed a desire to come back, and had to have been willing to take significantly less money considering lack of interest on the open market. I just don't see it. I really doubt it would actually happen anyway, so shrug burningmetal likes this.
	Mais forte do que a morte

03-27-2013, 12:50 PM	#4
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: James Harrison to Saints? Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 There will probably be a lot of people on this forum saying the same thing about Brees when he gets to that age. The Saints defense needs all the play-makers we can get; I am fairly certain that you would agree to that. I wouldn't sign Harrison if it meant the Saints wouldn't have the cap space left to sign Butler or a decent FA LT!! QB's can play a long time when healthy. Pass rushers lose their quickness and speed much faster, and the decline is usually rapid, as has been the case over the last two years with Harrison. QB's don't need that. He's a system player, and we have guys in house who have a great chance to succeed without bringing in a 35 year old loud mouth who has had problems staying healthy recently. That last part might be the biggest concern, physically speaking. He has been hurt, and at his age, the decline is highly likely to continue at a rapid pace. Some of you have the opinion that he's good enough. That's fine. But I'm going on what I have seen over and over with players like him, at this stage of their career, and I have drawn the conclusion that I'd rather not have anything to do with him.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

03-27-2013, 12:24 AM	#5
nycsaintfan 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 165	Re: James Harrison to Saints? Originally Posted by burningmetal My two personal reasons why I don't want him are this: 1- He's a major douche bag (not good for team chemistry). 2- He isn't simply not as good as he used to be. He's not even close. The fact that he's 35 doesn't help, but if the first two reasons didn't apply, then I would take him at a low cost. I think there are enough veterans in the Saints clubhouse that can keep his personality in check. I agree that he is not the player that he once was. But with that said, if you are getting Harrison at a reasonable price with incentives writing into the contract, it might be a chance worth taking. At this point there aren't many pass rushers on the market. Harrison would fill a need and it would not be a long term investment. Of course this is all speculation at this point.
nycsaintfan 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 165

03-27-2013, 03:21 AM	#6
lsutigerfan 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: born And raised in NOLA, now live in Los Angeles Posts: 811	Re: James Harrison to Saints? Originally Posted by burningmetal My two personal reasons why I don't want him are this: 1- He's a major douche bag (not good for team chemistry). 2- He isn't simply not as good as he used to be. He's not even close. The fact that he's 35 doesn't help, but if the first two reasons didn't apply, then I would take him at a low cost. I don't ever remember him being in trouble off the field. In fact, the only thing I do remember is him beating the hell out of QB's, if that's the douch bag you're talking about I'll take it. Sign that douch bag! Who Dat Que likes this.

03-27-2013, 12:26 PM	#7
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: James Harrison to Saints? Originally Posted by lsutigerfan I don't ever remember him being in trouble off the field. In fact, the only thing I do remember is him beating the hell out of QB's, if that's the douch bag you're talking about I'll take it. Sign that douch bag! I didn't say he was in trouble. I said he's a douche bag, and that is precisely what I mean. He's always running his mouth about everything, and while I kind of laugh at his remarks about Goodell (because there have been some unfair fines sent his way), he DOES take a lot of cheap shots on players. I'm all for playing the game with intensity. You can't have success without intensity. But there is a lack of integrity in a person who just runs around like a kamikaze trying to knock everyone's head off. Hard hits are great, but when you can clearly see a guy coming and you intentionally hit him in the head, that is unacceptable. I've often complained about all the helmet to helmet rules, because it's usually incidental contact that ends up being flagged. But I'm not for a guy who clearly does that crap on purpose. And then he whines and says he's being unfairly treated. Like I said, his reputation has led to some unfair fines, but there's no way he can try to convince anyone that he isn't a dirty player. Does this answer your question?
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

03-27-2013, 08:48 AM	#8
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,050	Re: James Harrison to Saints? Originally Posted by burningmetal My two personal reasons why I don't want him are this: 1- He's a major douche bag (not good for team chemistry). 2- He isn't simply not as good as he used to be. He's not even close. The fact that he's 35 doesn't help, but if the first two reasons didn't apply, then I would take him at a low cost. His "not as good as he used to be" sack numbers for 2012 are higher than any Saints LB in the last 5 years, and right with our DEs. Harrison 2012: 6 sacks Vilmas Best = 4 in 2010 Shanles Best = 4 in 2008 Loftons Best = 2 in 2010 Hawthornes Best = 4 in 2009 His attitude is similar to Kyle Turley, or Shockey.. And I have bromance for those guys. While some would find his comment to Ben Roethlisberger offensive (Roethlisberger fans)... it was spot on and echoed what many people in these forums said about Drews INTs last year. “Hey, at least throw a pick on their side of the field instead of asking the D to bail you out again,” Harrison said. “Or hand the ball off and stop trying to act like Peyton Manning. You ain’t that and you know it, man; you just get paid like he does.” I would not say we want James Harrison, I would say we need James Harrison... Because quite frankly our other LB options are not as good. In the this case a downgrade for the Steelers is an upgrade for us.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

03-27-2013, 12:16 PM	#9
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	Re: James Harrison to Saints? Originally Posted by TheOak His "not as good as he used to be" sack numbers for 2012 are higher than any Saints LB in the last 5 years, and right with our DEs. Harrison 2012: 6 sacks Vilmas Best = 4 in 2010 Shanles Best = 4 in 2008 Loftons Best = 2 in 2010 Hawthornes Best = 4 in 2009 None of the four LBs that played or play for the Saints have been rushing OLBs in a 3-4 defense as far as I know, which would put the validity of the comparison into question. burningmetal, Joker and Who Dat Que like this.

03-27-2013, 12:31 PM	#10
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: James Harrison to Saints? Originally Posted by FinSaint None of the four LBs that played or play for the Saints have been rushing OLBs in a 3-4 defense as far as I know, which would put the validity of the comparison into question. I was just getting ready to reply with exactly this. We did not have a system that called for our linebackers to rush. Henceforth, we did not acquire pass rushing linebackers. Vilma was a great player when we got him, but he did not come with a reputation as a pass rusher. Same with Lofton. Hawthorne is another middle linebacker who has had to play on the outside. We have Wilson and Gallette who are more than capable of being pass rush specialists. Harrison would not have succeeded in a 4-3, either. Who Dat Que likes this.

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