Saints back in hunt for CB McKenzie

JKool · 09-24-2004, 04:42 PM

Is Berger hurt? I hadn\'t heard that. That would be troubling.

blackroses · 09-24-2004, 04:58 PM

Yeah atleast from the article in on the link it says He pulled his groin if you scroll down to etc. Right before high praise.

blackroses · 09-24-2004, 05:00 PM

I don\'t know I think Mckenzie would be a cancer on defense if you know what I mean. Who is too say he won\'t pull the same stuff come
contract talks again. Than again he probably has leadership skills who knows.

BrooksMustGo · 09-24-2004, 05:06 PM

I think there are two responses here, so tell me what you think:
1. We got Craft and at the time, we still thought we had something in Craver, and who would have thought that Ambrose would have gotten THAT slow.

At the time, I thought Craft was more of a stopgap measure. I found myself wondering whether Craft would have even made the roster in Jax. As for Craver, that\'s a good point, I thought he would have been much better than he proved to be, at the same time, the staff had to know that he wasn\'t developing beyond a nickel or dime back.

At any rate, having them run drills against Stallworth or Horn should have let us know what exactly we had in the secondary. I can see where you\'re coming from on draft day and it makes some sense. During mini camp and certainly not later than camp, we should have known exactly where we stood in the secondary. If McKenzie really is who we need, it seems like we should have known before preseason.

2. The asking prices were very high for mid-grade CBs. If we wait we can get a mid-grade CB for less. As I recall GB was asking for a first rounder for McKenzie (who is probably a high mid-grade corner). That sounds too high to me.

I agree, the sticking point doesn\'t seem to just be what GB wants, but what McKenzie thinks he\'s worth. I am left with the impression that MM thinks he\'s worth elite CB kind of money. I\'m not sure that a guy who is marginally better than what we\'ve got is going to merit a big cap hit.

Mostly I\'m irate at a front office and coaching staff that has been claiming our secondary is fine for several years and now that the season is underway identify MM as a critical need for us. It\'s like pulling a cooked steak off the grill and then saying, \"hey let\'s bake some potatos while we have the grill fired up. Do we have any potatos?\"

:kerry:

CheramieIII · 09-24-2004, 05:48 PM

We keep saying McKenzie would be a cancer to our team, well if we get cancer and win I don\'t care, he will still be the best DB we have when we get him this weekend for a second and 6 round pick.

WhoDat · 09-24-2004, 06:30 PM

Props to BMG here. Can I hear again about how we don\'t need a CB, how drafting ANOTHER D-linemen will make this team so much better? They\'ll be able to stop the run and the pass rush will help the secondary. How many sacks do our exaulted front 4 have so far this year again?

It amazes me how everyone forgets that two months ago many many people were talking about a corner like he wasn\'t worth much more than a punter. Man, all I can do is shake my head.

saintfan · 09-24-2004, 10:08 PM

drafting ANOTHER D-linemen will make this team so much better?

Might I ask you which CB you think we should have taken when our turn came up. Instead of Will Smith, who would you have drafted?

How many sacks do our exaulted front 4 have so far this year again?

How many games have they been on the field together? What number leads the league?

bayouking318 · 09-25-2004, 12:38 AM

BMG, I know that Haz isn\'t the ONLY guy who gets to make picks, but are you saying that Haz is terrible in the draft, because I have to disagree. I may be mistaken, but weren\'t these guys \"Haz\'s\" picks:

McAllister
Stallworth
Grant
Houser
Bentley
Sullivan
Holland
O\'Sullivan
W. Smith
Hodge
Karney
Watson

McCalister, Stallworth, Grant, Houser, LeCharles Bently, Sedrick Hodge, & O sullivan are Randy Mueller picks

*Sullivan could of been Trufant
*Holland could of been Bradie James
*Will Smith could of been Kenech Udeze and a extra pick in the draft if they trade down w/Miami
*Karney could of been pick w/the extra pick if we would\'ve traded down in the 1st rd.
*Watson the only pick i give :thumbup: to

BrooksMustGo · 09-25-2004, 12:56 AM

Be careful bayouking, Saintfan\'s aneurysm might rupture with too many posts like that. :biggrin:

You make a valid point, our best picks did seem to be the one\'s Randy was in charge of.

:kerry:

JKool · 09-25-2004, 02:51 PM

BK, if Meuller was making those picks in a vaccuum, I agree. The reason, it seems to me, people keep blaming Haz for bad picks when Loomis is technically in charge of that is that Haz has some say (just like he did in the Meuller picks). It is unfair to blame Haz in one case and not praise him in the other - unless I\'m missing something?

09-24-2004, 04:42 PM	#11
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Saints back in hunt for CB McKenzie Is Berger hurt? I hadn\'t heard that. That would be troubling.

09-24-2004, 04:58 PM	#12
blackroses Registered Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 85	Saints back in hunt for CB McKenzie Yeah atleast from the article in on the link it says He pulled his groin if you scroll down to etc. Right before high praise.
blackroses Registered Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 85

09-24-2004, 05:00 PM	#13
blackroses Registered Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 85	Saints back in hunt for CB McKenzie I don\'t know I think Mckenzie would be a cancer on defense if you know what I mean. Who is too say he won\'t pull the same stuff come contract talks again. Than again he probably has leadership skills who knows.
blackroses Registered Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 85

09-24-2004, 05:06 PM	#14
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Saints back in hunt for CB McKenzie I think there are two responses here, so tell me what you think: 1. We got Craft and at the time, we still thought we had something in Craver, and who would have thought that Ambrose would have gotten THAT slow. At the time, I thought Craft was more of a stopgap measure. I found myself wondering whether Craft would have even made the roster in Jax. As for Craver, that\'s a good point, I thought he would have been much better than he proved to be, at the same time, the staff had to know that he wasn\'t developing beyond a nickel or dime back. At any rate, having them run drills against Stallworth or Horn should have let us know what exactly we had in the secondary. I can see where you\'re coming from on draft day and it makes some sense. During mini camp and certainly not later than camp, we should have known exactly where we stood in the secondary. If McKenzie really is who we need, it seems like we should have known before preseason. 2. The asking prices were very high for mid-grade CBs. If we wait we can get a mid-grade CB for less. As I recall GB was asking for a first rounder for McKenzie (who is probably a high mid-grade corner). That sounds too high to me. I agree, the sticking point doesn\'t seem to just be what GB wants, but what McKenzie thinks he\'s worth. I am left with the impression that MM thinks he\'s worth elite CB kind of money. I\'m not sure that a guy who is marginally better than what we\'ve got is going to merit a big cap hit. Mostly I\'m irate at a front office and coaching staff that has been claiming our secondary is fine for several years and now that the season is underway identify MM as a critical need for us. It\'s like pulling a cooked steak off the grill and then saying, \"hey let\'s bake some potatos while we have the grill fired up. Do we have any potatos?\" :kerry:
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09-24-2004, 05:48 PM	#15
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Saints back in hunt for CB McKenzie We keep saying McKenzie would be a cancer to our team, well if we get cancer and win I don\'t care, he will still be the best DB we have when we get him this weekend for a second and 6 round pick.

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09-24-2004, 06:30 PM	#16
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Saints back in hunt for CB McKenzie Props to BMG here. Can I hear again about how we don\'t need a CB, how drafting ANOTHER D-linemen will make this team so much better? They\'ll be able to stop the run and the pass rush will help the secondary. How many sacks do our exaulted front 4 have so far this year again? It amazes me how everyone forgets that two months ago many many people were talking about a corner like he wasn\'t worth much more than a punter. Man, all I can do is shake my head.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

09-24-2004, 10:08 PM	#17
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Saints back in hunt for CB McKenzie drafting ANOTHER D-linemen will make this team so much better? Might I ask you which CB you think we should have taken when our turn came up. Instead of Will Smith, who would you have drafted? How many sacks do our exaulted front 4 have so far this year again? How many games have they been on the field together? What number leads the league?

09-25-2004, 12:38 AM	#18
bayouking318 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monroe, La Posts: 209	Saints back in hunt for CB McKenzie BMG, I know that Haz isn\'t the ONLY guy who gets to make picks, but are you saying that Haz is terrible in the draft, because I have to disagree. I may be mistaken, but weren\'t these guys \"Haz\'s\" picks: McAllister Stallworth Grant Houser Bentley Sullivan Holland O\'Sullivan W. Smith Hodge Karney Watson McCalister, Stallworth, Grant, Houser, LeCharles Bently, Sedrick Hodge, & O sullivan are Randy Mueller picks Sullivan could of been Trufant Holland could of been Bradie James Will Smith could of been Kenech Udeze and a extra pick in the draft if they trade down w/Miami Karney could of been pick w/the extra pick if we would\'ve traded down in the 1st rd. *Watson the only pick i give :thumbup: to

09-25-2004, 12:56 AM	#19
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Saints back in hunt for CB McKenzie Be careful bayouking, Saintfan\'s aneurysm might rupture with too many posts like that. :biggrin: You make a valid point, our best picks did seem to be the one\'s Randy was in charge of. :kerry:

09-25-2004, 02:51 PM	#20
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Saints back in hunt for CB McKenzie BK, if Meuller was making those picks in a vaccuum, I agree. The reason, it seems to me, people keep blaming Haz for bad picks when Loomis is technically in charge of that is that Haz has some say (just like he did in the Meuller picks). It is unfair to blame Haz in one case and not praise him in the other - unless I\'m missing something?