After Morgan injury, Saints say don't blame Vaccaro's aggressiveness

SaintsBro · 08-08-2013, 05:28 PM

If you ask me, it is because they are not following the dictum of "practice the same way you play"

Ask any rock n' roll musician -- if you practice through some dinky little 5 watt bedroom practice amp, you are not going to be prepared to get up there on a BIG stage with a light show and pyrotechnics and blast through a gigantic Marshall stack. It's completely different. The only way to learn how to handle a loud guitar, or play in front of 18,000 people, is to PLAY LOUD.

You learn to do it by doing, there's no other way.

Football is the same deal -- you can't learn it or do it properly, by being half-****ed about it. When they took all these guys out of pads, took away the practices with the pads on, and reduced the amount of off season practice, they weren't ready for the fact that the guys are still playing the game the way they always have!

Also when changing the CBA, they were not taking into account that these guys are professionals who go 110% all out, all the time whether it's practice or a game. So in my opinion, that's why there are so many injuries going on in training camp, not just with the Saints but all over the league.

TheOak · 08-08-2013, 05:46 PM

Practice like you play, if someone gets hurt..... Next man up

Danno · 08-08-2013, 05:53 PM

Football Darwinism.

We need tougher players.

rezburna · 08-08-2013, 05:59 PM

I regret not playing at MGCCC with John Jenkins, Vick Ballard, and Terrence Cody....

Beastmode · 08-08-2013, 07:13 PM

It's part of the game but at the end of the day it's usually the teams with the least amount of injuries that go deep in the playoffs...not always, so don't sharp shoot me, but it's not good. The WR spot is not a big issue having Brees.
The concern is defense. We got a new everything on that side, start losing people and it's a serious problem for us. We barely have something that is better than last season from where I'm standing.

WhoDat!656 · 08-08-2013, 07:23 PM

New Orleans Saints wide receiver Joe Morgan will miss the entirety of the 2013 NFL season after sustaining an ACL tear early in the second week of training camp.

That’s something to take note of, as Vaccaro had been the subject of scrutiny early in camp for being a bit too physical to the point the coaching staff hinted he needed to turn it down. Many players said they liked to see fire from the youngster and Vaccaro himself said it is just how he approaches the game.

We will probably never know if Vaccaro’s aggressiveness lead to the injury but it is great to see Morgan going to bat for him publicly given the weight of the situation. Morgan was primed to have a career year as the starting slot receiver.

Instead Morgan is on the shelf for an unknown period of time and the Saints have to find a replacement. The good news is Morgan seems to be in high spirits and the recovery is already progressing nicely.

Saints' Joe Morgan Begins Road to Recovery, Says Don't Blame Kenny Vaccaro - Who Dat Dish - A New Orleans Saints Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and more.

SaintsBro · 08-09-2013, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

We will probably never know if Vaccaro’s aggressiveness lead to the injury but it is great to see Morgan going to bat for him publicly given the weight of the situation. Morgan was primed to have a career year as the starting slot receiver.

Instead Morgan is on the shelf for an unknown period of time and the Saints have to find a replacement. The good news is Morgan seems to be in high spirits and the recovery is already progressing nicely.

Saints' Joe Morgan Begins Road to Recovery, Says Don't Blame Kenny Vaccaro - Who Dat Dish - A New Orleans Saints Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and more.

This is just conjecture on my part but based on what's been said in interviews and reading between the lines, I think Payton really LIKES Morgan, he sees something there, and wants him to be part of the team. I would not be at all surprised if they had a private conversation between them, that went something like, "we're putting you on IR, son, but you're safe, we're not gonna cut you loose, don't worry about the future, just get better, keep learning the playbook, you're a part of the future plans for this club." It would certainly explain Morgan's good cheer and positive attitude, given the fact that this is the second time this has happened to him where he's ended up stashed on IR until next year. He certainly doesn't seem to be freaking out about it. There were some quotes in an interview with Morgan from 2011, where he basically said that Payton had taken him aside and quietly given him some advice, on how to approach his career, how to get noticed by scouts and coaches, how to earn a spot on an NFL roster....it sounded like Payton was basically giving Morgan advice and a blueprint on how to make the team, which makes me think that Payton sees something that he really likes in the kid.

TheOak · 08-09-2013, 11:43 AM

I hope we do not keep him because he is liked, he needs to be able to produce and play. That is how we kept Ivory a season or two too long.

As far as injury goes... If Vaccaro takes out 3 players before the season starts legally AND does the same during the regular season then so be it.

We b1tch and complain that our Defense isn't physical enough then as soon as someone gets hurt we want them to cut throttle.

If players can not make it through practice, scrimmage, preseason... What do you think will happen when they get hit by Harrison, Watt, any other player in a real game? I would rather lose them now while we have time to find the replacement than week 3.

SaintsBro · 08-09-2013, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

I hope we do not keep him because he is liked, he needs to be able to produce and play. That is how we kept Ivory a season or two too long.

.

Quit being so militant, dude...chill out...Morgan is "liked" by Payton precisely BECAUSE he produces. Do you even know the interview quote about the conversation Morgan had with Payton, that I am referring to? You obviously don't. It was about making PLAYS. Payton told him in 2011, if you make plays, you will make the 53. And if you don't make the 53, you're still on film auditioning for the other 31 teams. So go make some plays and get noticed on film. That's what Payton told Morgan in his rookie camp. Now why Payton went out of his way to take him aside and tell him this, it sounds to me like he did it because he likes Morgan, or believes in his potential.

What on earth makes you think they ever kept Ivory because they "liked" him, over what he could potentially contribute and do for the team? If they "liked" Ivory so much, then why would they bench him because he gave the coaches an attitude, which is exactly what happened to Ivory in 2012? If they "liked" him, then why was he ALWAYS in the doghouse with the coaches?

Don't confuse the fans liking Ivory, with the coaches liking him. I'm saying the coaches DIDN'T favor Ivory -- they NEVER "liked" or trusted him. In fact, they perpetually kept Ivory in the doghouse, on purpose, because they knew he ran better when he was in the doghouse.

Payton NEVER considered Ivory the go-to back, or else his number would have been called more often for big plays with the game on the line, which it basically NEVER was, except the one 4th and 1 against the Falcons where he fumbled. I could always tell that Ivory was never in the same category in Payton's mind, with guys like Thomas, Sproles, Bush, Deuce, and Ingram. Payton never TRUSTED Ivory. Ivory was like a Mike Bell or Aaron Stecker, just throw him against the wall and see if he sticks, and if you don't stick, or wear the wrong shoes, you're gone. And sure enough, he's gone. Nothing to do with liking or coddling or playing favorites.

TheOak · 08-09-2013, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

Quit being so militant, dude...chill out...Morgan is "liked" by Payton precisely BECAUSE he produces. Do you even know the interview quote about the conversation Morgan had with Payton, that I am referring to? You obviously don't. It was about making PLAYS. Payton told him in 2011, if you make plays, you will make the 53. And if you don't make the 53, you're still on film auditioning for the other 31 teams. So go make some plays and get noticed on film. That's what Payton told Morgan in his rookie camp. Now why Payton went out of his way to take him aside and tell him this, it sounds to me like he did it because he likes Morgan, or believes in his potential.

What on earth makes you think they ever kept Ivory because they "liked" him, over what he could potentially contribute and do for the team? If they "liked" Ivory so much, then why would they bench him because he gave the coaches an attitude, which is exactly what happened to Ivory in 2012? If they "liked" him, then why was he ALWAYS in the doghouse with the coaches?

Don't confuse the fans liking Ivory, with the coaches liking him. I'm saying the coaches DIDN'T favor Ivory -- they NEVER "liked" or trusted him. In fact, they perpetually kept Ivory in the doghouse, on purpose, because they knew he ran better when he was in the doghouse.

Payton NEVER considered Ivory the go-to back, or else his number would have been called more often for big plays with the game on the line, which it basically NEVER was, except the one 4th and 1 against the Falcons where he fumbled. I could always tell that Ivory was never in the same category in Payton's mind, with guys like Thomas, Sproles, Bush, Deuce, and Ingram. Payton never TRUSTED Ivory. Ivory was like a Mike Bell or Aaron Stecker, just throw him against the wall and see if he sticks, and if you don't stick, or wear the wrong shoes, you're gone. And sure enough, he's gone. Nothing to do with liking or coddling or playing favorites.

Ill stop being militant when you stop being Emo.

You seem to have answered all of your own questions, thanks. Doesn't change my point of view.

08-08-2013, 05:28 PM	#11
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: After Morgan injury, Saints say don't blame Vaccaro's aggressiveness If you ask me, it is because they are not following the dictum of "practice the same way you play" Ask any rock n' roll musician -- if you practice through some dinky little 5 watt bedroom practice amp, you are not going to be prepared to get up there on a BIG stage with a light show and pyrotechnics and blast through a gigantic Marshall stack. It's completely different. The only way to learn how to handle a loud guitar, or play in front of 18,000 people, is to PLAY LOUD. You learn to do it by doing, there's no other way. Football is the same deal -- you can't learn it or do it properly, by being half-****ed about it. When they took all these guys out of pads, took away the practices with the pads on, and reduced the amount of off season practice, they weren't ready for the fact that the guys are still playing the game the way they always have! Also when changing the CBA, they were not taking into account that these guys are professionals who go 110% all out, all the time whether it's practice or a game. So in my opinion, that's why there are so many injuries going on in training camp, not just with the Saints but all over the league.

08-08-2013, 05:46 PM	#12
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Re: After Morgan injury, Saints say don't blame Vaccaro's aggressiveness Practice like you play, if someone gets hurt..... Next man up

08-08-2013, 05:53 PM	#13
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,715	Re: After Morgan injury, Saints say don't blame Vaccaro's aggressiveness Football Darwinism. We need tougher players.

08-08-2013, 05:59 PM	#14
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,868	Re: After Morgan injury, Saints say don't blame Vaccaro's aggressiveness I regret not playing at MGCCC with John Jenkins, Vick Ballard, and Terrence Cody....

08-08-2013, 07:13 PM	#15
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Re: After Morgan injury, Saints say don't blame Vaccaro's aggressiveness It's part of the game but at the end of the day it's usually the teams with the least amount of injuries that go deep in the playoffs...not always, so don't sharp shoot me, but it's not good. The WR spot is not a big issue having Brees. The concern is defense. We got a new everything on that side, start losing people and it's a serious problem for us. We barely have something that is better than last season from where I'm standing.
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126

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08-08-2013, 07:23 PM	#16
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,038	Saints’ Joe Morgan Begins Road to Recovery, Says Don’t Blame Kenny Vaccaro New Orleans Saints wide receiver Joe Morgan will miss the entirety of the 2013 NFL season after sustaining an ACL tear early in the second week of training camp. That’s something to take note of, as Vaccaro had been the subject of scrutiny early in camp for being a bit too physical to the point the coaching staff hinted he needed to turn it down. Many players said they liked to see fire from the youngster and Vaccaro himself said it is just how he approaches the game. We will probably never know if Vaccaro’s aggressiveness lead to the injury but it is great to see Morgan going to bat for him publicly given the weight of the situation. Morgan was primed to have a career year as the starting slot receiver. Instead Morgan is on the shelf for an unknown period of time and the Saints have to find a replacement. The good news is Morgan seems to be in high spirits and the recovery is already progressing nicely. Saints' Joe Morgan Begins Road to Recovery, Says Don't Blame Kenny Vaccaro - Who Dat Dish - A New Orleans Saints Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and more.
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08-09-2013, 11:07 AM	#17
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints’ Joe Morgan Begins Road to Recovery, Says Don’t Blame Kenny Vaccaro Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 We will probably never know if Vaccaro’s aggressiveness lead to the injury but it is great to see Morgan going to bat for him publicly given the weight of the situation. Morgan was primed to have a career year as the starting slot receiver. Instead Morgan is on the shelf for an unknown period of time and the Saints have to find a replacement. The good news is Morgan seems to be in high spirits and the recovery is already progressing nicely. Saints' Joe Morgan Begins Road to Recovery, Says Don't Blame Kenny Vaccaro - Who Dat Dish - A New Orleans Saints Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and more. This is just conjecture on my part but based on what's been said in interviews and reading between the lines, I think Payton really LIKES Morgan, he sees something there, and wants him to be part of the team. I would not be at all surprised if they had a private conversation between them, that went something like, "we're putting you on IR, son, but you're safe, we're not gonna cut you loose, don't worry about the future, just get better, keep learning the playbook, you're a part of the future plans for this club." It would certainly explain Morgan's good cheer and positive attitude, given the fact that this is the second time this has happened to him where he's ended up stashed on IR until next year. He certainly doesn't seem to be freaking out about it. There were some quotes in an interview with Morgan from 2011, where he basically said that Payton had taken him aside and quietly given him some advice, on how to approach his career, how to get noticed by scouts and coaches, how to earn a spot on an NFL roster....it sounded like Payton was basically giving Morgan advice and a blueprint on how to make the team, which makes me think that Payton sees something that he really likes in the kid.

08-09-2013, 11:43 AM	#18
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Re: Saints’ Joe Morgan Begins Road to Recovery, Says Don’t Blame Kenny Vaccaro I hope we do not keep him because he is liked, he needs to be able to produce and play. That is how we kept Ivory a season or two too long. As far as injury goes... If Vaccaro takes out 3 players before the season starts legally AND does the same during the regular season then so be it. We b1tch and complain that our Defense isn't physical enough then as soon as someone gets hurt we want them to cut throttle. If players can not make it through practice, scrimmage, preseason... What do you think will happen when they get hit by Harrison, Watt, any other player in a real game? I would rather lose them now while we have time to find the replacement than week 3. Danno, halloween 65 and SaintnDE like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

08-09-2013, 01:08 PM	#19
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints’ Joe Morgan Begins Road to Recovery, Says Don’t Blame Kenny Vaccaro Originally Posted by TheOak I hope we do not keep him because he is liked, he needs to be able to produce and play. That is how we kept Ivory a season or two too long. . Quit being so militant, dude...chill out...Morgan is "liked" by Payton precisely BECAUSE he produces. Do you even know the interview quote about the conversation Morgan had with Payton, that I am referring to? You obviously don't. It was about making PLAYS. Payton told him in 2011, if you make plays, you will make the 53. And if you don't make the 53, you're still on film auditioning for the other 31 teams. So go make some plays and get noticed on film. That's what Payton told Morgan in his rookie camp. Now why Payton went out of his way to take him aside and tell him this, it sounds to me like he did it because he likes Morgan, or believes in his potential. What on earth makes you think they ever kept Ivory because they "liked" him, over what he could potentially contribute and do for the team? If they "liked" Ivory so much, then why would they bench him because he gave the coaches an attitude, which is exactly what happened to Ivory in 2012? If they "liked" him, then why was he ALWAYS in the doghouse with the coaches? Don't confuse the fans liking Ivory, with the coaches liking him. I'm saying the coaches DIDN'T favor Ivory -- they NEVER "liked" or trusted him. In fact, they perpetually kept Ivory in the doghouse, on purpose, because they knew he ran better when he was in the doghouse. Payton NEVER considered Ivory the go-to back, or else his number would have been called more often for big plays with the game on the line, which it basically NEVER was, except the one 4th and 1 against the Falcons where he fumbled. I could always tell that Ivory was never in the same category in Payton's mind, with guys like Thomas, Sproles, Bush, Deuce, and Ingram. Payton never TRUSTED Ivory. Ivory was like a Mike Bell or Aaron Stecker, just throw him against the wall and see if he sticks, and if you don't stick, or wear the wrong shoes, you're gone. And sure enough, he's gone. Nothing to do with liking or coddling or playing favorites.

08-09-2013, 01:17 PM	#20
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Re: Saints’ Joe Morgan Begins Road to Recovery, Says Don’t Blame Kenny Vaccaro Originally Posted by SaintsBro Quit being so militant, dude...chill out...Morgan is "liked" by Payton precisely BECAUSE he produces. Do you even know the interview quote about the conversation Morgan had with Payton, that I am referring to? You obviously don't. It was about making PLAYS. Payton told him in 2011, if you make plays, you will make the 53. And if you don't make the 53, you're still on film auditioning for the other 31 teams. So go make some plays and get noticed on film. That's what Payton told Morgan in his rookie camp. Now why Payton went out of his way to take him aside and tell him this, it sounds to me like he did it because he likes Morgan, or believes in his potential. What on earth makes you think they ever kept Ivory because they "liked" him, over what he could potentially contribute and do for the team? If they "liked" Ivory so much, then why would they bench him because he gave the coaches an attitude, which is exactly what happened to Ivory in 2012? If they "liked" him, then why was he ALWAYS in the doghouse with the coaches? Don't confuse the fans liking Ivory, with the coaches liking him. I'm saying the coaches DIDN'T favor Ivory -- they NEVER "liked" or trusted him. In fact, they perpetually kept Ivory in the doghouse, on purpose, because they knew he ran better when he was in the doghouse. Payton NEVER considered Ivory the go-to back, or else his number would have been called more often for big plays with the game on the line, which it basically NEVER was, except the one 4th and 1 against the Falcons where he fumbled. I could always tell that Ivory was never in the same category in Payton's mind, with guys like Thomas, Sproles, Bush, Deuce, and Ingram. Payton never TRUSTED Ivory. Ivory was like a Mike Bell or Aaron Stecker, just throw him against the wall and see if he sticks, and if you don't stick, or wear the wrong shoes, you're gone. And sure enough, he's gone. Nothing to do with liking or coddling or playing favorites. Ill stop being militant when you stop being Emo. You seem to have answered all of your own questions, thanks. Doesn't change my point of view.

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