If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

I'm going into the season giving Rob Ryan the benefit of the doubt that he will but if he doesn't .I think they should go and see if they can get Lovie Smith. I really wanted Lovie this Year but I guess he was holding out for a HC job

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Rob Ryan will get more than 1 year... And while I expect some improvement(mid 20's is about right), no way will it be totally fixed this year...

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

I thought spags would have got more than a yr too

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Total scheme change, working right along side Payton... He'll get more than one year...

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Wow...

I didn't like the Ryan hiring either, but...

Need another draft with a commitment to drafting outside linebackers in two of the first three rounds (not two of the first three picks, but two picks in the first 2-1/2 rounds, among first 80 picks)...

Gotta get the Safeties transitioned; appears Harper's time is set with the Vacarro pick; Jenkins has to show he can ball when in the right system (50/50)...

Ryan will probably be gone anyways if the defense goes from historically last to middle of the pack - the NFL is nepotistic and he's his father's son and old money owners like hiring those types...

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

I just haven't really seen much of a change. We still have the same guys with the exception of like 2-3 new guys. Rob has never had a great defense any where he has been his defenses have always been middle of the pack crew. He's never had a team in the playoffs which may come to hurt us come that time of the yr. I just don't wanna see our team wasted having one of the best offenses if not best. we could be a dynasty team if we had a decent def.

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

This

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

He's never had an offense that could hang 40+ either... And I do believe that the Cowboys had a Top 10 defense last year until injuries decimated. We'll never have better than a middle of the pack defense(we're more offense oriented), but all we need is middle of the pack and we're easily in the playoffs

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Its easy to blame the dc when the defense is not good and in some instances it is be it scheme or what have u. Then there are times when the personnel just isn't talented or too old or too young whatever. No matter how hard u try u cant polish a turd.

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

im glad we have a offense that can put 40+ but wouldn't it be refreshing to know if we don't we have a shot at winning as it stands no we can score 40+ and still lose thats a lot of pressure to put on drew every week

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

At this point it's moot. This is a topic best saved for late February.

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

And how do you know that our defense won't be able to stop the points? Going off past irrelevant stats or the very vanilla 4-3 defense you have seen in the preseason?

No one knows what our defense will play like and all this Ryan getting fired is way premature...

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

I don't know I guess I've always been defensive guy.i just like a defense that goes out and knocks your _______ in the dirt. Its just not something we have never had in the last 30+ yrs

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Hurumpfff, How quickly they forget, DOME PATROL!! (circa 87-95)

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

dome patrol was 25-30 yrs ago we haven't had one since and i'll give them till 86-92 was the last yr after 93 all but mills was gone I didn't forget im just saying why cant we ever have another one

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Our personnel hasn't been that great since Mark Fields and Sammy Knight were here. Last year Spags ran the worse possible scheme for an already weak group of players. We've NEVER been able to get pressure out of a 4 man rush and he was betting the house on it. We haven't had an elite pass rusher in years. Not since Will Smith and Charles Grants glory days. People always seem to flash like shooting stars for us as far as pass rush goes. Smith...Grant...Darren Howard anyone?

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

2010 we had the 4th best defense in total yards...

2010 We had a healthy defense that had attitude and liked to hit... That attitude is coming back and I like what I have seen so far. In 2009 our D was 27th; we jumped to 4th the next season so the impossible can be accomplished.

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

I beg to differ on the 2-3 guys.

Off the top of my head.
Vaccaro
Haralson
Johnson
Foster

We only need middle of the pack.

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

I don't see anyone of those guys starting all of them are going to platoon.
Vaccaro should start but probably wont granted he'll see a lot of time
J.Jenkins may start at some point as well
Haralson and Foster and Johnson is going to come in off the bench
K.lewis is the only real starter that we have new starting
I just don't expect to see a big difference but hey we can't be any worse than were last yr
Everyone says we only need to be middle of the pack. Well that's hunky dory and good. I want a nasty mean rip your head off turnover causing unit were we don't have to score 40 points and sit on the edge of my seat hoping its gonna be enough for the win
I wanna see some 40-3 games or some shut outs .Don't you guys get tired of standing around the water cooler at work talking about how good the offense is but have to make excuses for the defense

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Id actually like to see a full non injured Rob Ryan defense on the field befire I consider who should replace him

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Get vaccaro on the field, that guy is going to put someone on the ground

If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

I don't make excuses for crap. In the day of salary cap you can either afford an epic offense, an epic defense, or good of both. The rare year where a team has the top offense and defense is an anomaly ... Go back and look, most of your SB winning teams are lopsided.


You define "starter" as in on the first play but defense doesn't work that way, it's about packages and who has to be in to cover what for a good many of those positions. EG we don't sub on defense just to give someone a breather, a lot of it is to put the right package in.

So to tell me someone is going to be in 80% of the time but isn't a starter doesn't compute.

Can we get a snap in regular season play before we are polling the next defensive coordinator?

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

im not sure but that sounds like a excuse. the salary cap don't allow it
tell that to the pats always a top offense and almost always a top 10 def same with the giants,broncos,pitts,packers


I said in the beginning I was giving him the benefit of the doubt

i'm just saying I haven't seen much improvement only way we get pressure is with the blitz

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

How did we get pressure with Greg Williams? Yea... Blitz

Haven't seen much improvement? You haven't seen much of anything, we have only played preseason... Base defense for a grand total of 5.5 quarters.

What it sounds like is someone needs to visit nfl.com and refresh their memory on the top and bottom of the piles.

2012
defensive rankings 32nd Saints, 31st Giants, 25th Pats, 24th Falcons.

2011
Defensive rankings 32nd Packers, 31st Pats, 27th Giants 24th Saints

2010
Defensive rankings 25th Pats

2009
Defensive rankings 25th Saints

Pats haven't had a top 24 defense since 2009 and then it wasn't top 10 which is top 1/3rd.

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Again why so combative we are on the same side you know

I want a defense plain and simple they can have any ranking stat wise i don't care as long as they get off the field on 3rd and 6,7,8,9 without allowing some weak arse crap over the top would be ok with me but it gets old watching my team sucking arse on the defensive side of the ball yr in and yr out

a sack or two would be nice
a interception,fumble something other than a high school defense

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

I see what you are getting at here with wanting more on defence. Sure, we all want that. Maybe starting the thread alluding to who we will be replacing Rob Ryan with after 1 year if things don't work out, was a little out of kilter.

With everything as it is now, Rob Ryan is absolutely safe for more than just a year as long as we show 'some' sign of progress. If we break our own NFL worst records then maybe there is a discussion to be had. But as all the pieces are back, we are in huge transition and there are personnel shifts, it is a learning curve.

As regards what Oak is saying, I couldn't agree more with him. In the days of Salary Cap, typically you have a team who is very good on offence OR very good on defence OR reasonable across the board.

It is very easy to get suckered in to the Seahawks and the 49ers at the moment. They both have lights out Defences. The thing is, because they have QBs coming off of one season of running about like idiots and they are the current darlings of the NFL, everyone thinks they have outstanding offences. They simply do not. The receiving corps for both is pretty weak (with the exception of Harvin who is injured, always, anyway). They both have solid ground games but my lord do they need that working to get points on the board.

The one possible exception on paper is Denver who do look solid across the board. Once again though, let's see how they copy for 6 games without Miller and how many times does Champ Bailey get burned this season? Their backfield by committee is anything but stellar.

In reality, we could have a more balanced team but it would likely come at the expense of the offence. As things stand, I have more than enough confidence in my offence that if we can keep the points conceded to under 24, we are in with a shot of winning every single game. And I think that is achievable without putting too much pressure on the offence and without asking too much of the defence at this point.

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Well... I'd like to see how it pans out first. I was hoping for Romeo, but since RR is here I am routing for him. Get it done Rob

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

...Doublechecking the calendar... Isn't it Labor Day? This sure sounds like a after the season discussion, not a before the season one.

Like most defenses in the NFL today, the Saints defense this year only needs to do 4 things:

1. Get off the field on 3rd down.
2. Take the ball away. Occasionally is good. Often would be great.
3. Defend in the Red Zone and try to hold the opposition to field goals.
4. Most important: DO NOT GIVE UP THE BIG PLAY!

Surprisingly the Saints were in the middle of the pack (15th) last year in the first category. The Red Zone defense was adequate. It's point #4 that was the killer. If the defense can cut out that single factor and force teams to drive the field, then the defense will instantly be better.

The team gave up 28.4 points per game last year (454 pts in 16 games). Note this included blanking Tampa Bay last December, so it's really over 30 PPG in competitive games. In the previous 7 years the offense has scored no less than 23 PPG (28.8 PPG last season). So it's just simple arithmetic. If the Saints defense can cut down on the big plays and slow scoring a bit (24 PPG would be enough, 20-21 PPG would be outstanding) then the team will be fine.

SFIAH

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

What you are looking for simply doesn't exist in the NFL anymore. All the talent, and all the rules favor the offense. Like it or not, most fans enjoy the scoring and the League has accommodated that. 30 years ago it was possible to knock out QBs and receivers with impunity. In today's league pretty much anything other than pushing an offensive player down, and only after they have received the ball, results in a huge penalty.

In short defenses are hamstrung. So when the rules change, play to the rules. And the Saints have had that in spades over the last 7 years.

The 1985 Bears and the 2000 Ravens could not function in the 2013 NFL.

So like all teams today, you have to work with what you have. For the Saints, it's using scheme to slow down the opposition. It's improving personnel on the back end (Lewis, Vaccaro) to better defend the back end in wide open sets. It's opening up lanes for edge rushers to get to the QB.

The only consistent theme that has persevered is that defenses have to be able to stop the run. If a team can run consistently on a defense, then it is toast. I believe that the D-line is now a strength, not a liability in that area.

SFIAH

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Two words: salary cap.

You can have the Dome Patrol, or you can have Drew Brees. It's your choice

SFIAH

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Yep,

2013 Saints offense + Dome patrol defense = 19-0.

It would also equate to about 70 million over the salary cap.

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

I think Ryan needs to be here 2-3 years at least.
-You can't build a unit in one year.
-He isn't a bad coach.
-You have to have some consistency

The big down fall he is facing is our team isn't building to win in 2-3 years.
We are built to win now. We don't have long before Bree's is done. Cap is a problem.

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

You hit the nail right on the head.
In the Payton era we've had probably the best offense in the league. Teams play us and they know they may have to score a ton of points win. In turn, it puts our defense in a tough position.

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Early 90's, if my math is correct, was about 20 years ago. And btw, our defense with spags at the helm, did pitch a shutout last season, so the talent is there. It all depends on stamina, and motivation. We need a defensive leader, that leads with heart, determination, AND example. With Vilma on the decline, I don't see anyone stepping up into that role. Yet.

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

What difference does it make if its 30 years or 22 years really come on its not the point.

My point is baring some unforeseen miracle I don't see how our defense is going to be any better than we have been yr in and yr out. Maybe our scheme may change but we still have the same players with the same lack of ability to get to the QB

I'm sorry I even started this thread because its obvious you all are satisfied having a lame A-- defense as long as we have a epic offense

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

I don't think any of us are satisfied with having any part of our team that is 'lamea--'. We are however just establishing that it is impossible to have a team where every area is stellar. Put really simply, the way the cap works, we can improve our D at the expense of our O.

There was a great comment further up about how the league is leaning towards being a point scoring game. It certainly is. So why invest in a D which has to tread on eggshells when you have the best O in town who are not only awesome but will get calls work in their favour as well!

I am certainly more comfortable with having our amazing offence at the expense of a less than amazing defence. I do also reckon that we have some great pieces in place now to make that defence more than adequate. Cameron Jordan, pound for pound, may turn into one of the best D players in the league.

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

so your saying we have a one man team Drew Brees cause we sure as crap don't have a running game not with Ingram back there I still don't know why they don't give the ball to Thomas more the guy's career average is 5 yrs a carry. Tell me why Thomas has gotten to run the ball 20 times 3 times in his career



I WILL SHUT UP I WONT RESPOND OR POST ANOTHER THING ELSE SORRY FOR HAVING A CONCERN

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

I don't see this as a one man team, we have a lot of cap dedicated to Colston, Evans, Grubbs, Moore, Brees, soon to be Graham,

Now I ask you; who do you get rid of to allow more cap space for better defense?

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

Jenkins ,vilma, w.smith , r,harper d.hawthorne .c.chamberlin K.colmon

Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?
 

We've already been through this; We lose money if we cut Jenkins, Hawthorne, Smith, Vilma, Harper, Chamberlain... And then you have to spend more money to replace them... :rolleyes: