Ingram- What do we do with him?

Mr.Riaton · 09-16-2013, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by The Dude

Bull****. Thomas and Sproles can get it done he can't, plain and simple. Yes the Oline has to help, but he has got to win his one on ones and hes not getting it done. A good back is supposed to push the pile and make plays when plays arent there. That is his job and he is not doing it. Some of you guys act like the line is supposed to part like the Red Sea and let him run through it. It doesnt work that way, he has to do his part too. This dude is a ****ing bust here. You can say its the lines faullt all you want but I dont give a **** if hes the best RB to ever play the game, if hes not getting it done here then why should he be here. Why people still defend this guy is beyond me.

P.Thomas-29 yds.
D.Sproles-26 yds.
M.Ingram-20 yds

Yea...your right. Thomas and Sproles are getting it done.

Its the o line's job to push the pile,NOT the RB.

People still "defend" Ingram because we all have a different point of veiw and you need to learn to respect that.

papz · 09-16-2013, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

P.Thomas-29 yds.
D.Sproles-26 yds.
M.Ingram-20 yds

Yea...your right. Thomas and Sproles are getting it done.

Its the o line's job to push the pile,NOT the RB.

People still "defend" Ingram because we all have a different point of veiw and you need to learn to respect that.

You should probably attach the YPC to that as well. Statistically, those numbers are very misleading... and you know it.

Guess that phrase is right. Stats don't lie... people use stats to lie.

Mr.Riaton · 09-16-2013, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by papz

You should probably attach the YPC to that as well. Statistically, those numbers are very misleading... and you know it.

Guess that phrase is right. Stats don't lie... people use stats to lie.

P.Thomas-5.9
D.Sproles-3.6
M.Ingram-2.8

P.Thomas is an exception....the dude is a beast. Your right, stats can be misleading,but aren't YPC stats also? I have no idea why you think I'm using stats to lie....I'm making a point that Ingram is not all to blame here. He may not be the back we all expected him to be, but he's not as bad as some make him out to be.He had a couple decent runs, but people act like he did absolutely nothing at all. If that's the case, lets all bash Sproles for his 3.6 YPC game. Well look at that-I used a YPC stat!

TheOak · 09-16-2013, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

P.Thomas-5.9
D.Sproles-3.6
M.Ingram-2.8

P.Thomas is an exception....the dude is a beast. Your right, stats can be misleading,but aren't YPC stats also? I have no idea why you think I'm using stats to lie....I'm making a point that Ingram is not all to blame here. He may not be the back we all expected him to be, but he's not as bad as some make him out to be.He had a couple decent runs, but people act like he did absolutely nothing at all. If that's the case, lets all bash Sproles for his 3.6 YPC game. Well look at that-I used a YPC stat!

Look brother, is he horrible? No

Here are my issues with ingram:

1. We is a 1st round draft pick getting out run by Undrafted Free Agents.
2. He is "supposed" to be our punch it through short down, goal line back.. He is not getting 1st downs and he is not getting TDs.

Here is a question for you, Its the NFC Championship game, Saints 9 Falcons 14 we have ball on the 3 yard line with 5 seconds left on the clock.

Is Ingram your guy?

Mr.Riaton · 09-16-2013, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Look brother, is he horrible? No

Here are my issues with ingram:

1. We is a 1st round draft pick getting out run by Undrafted Free Agents.
2. He is "supposed" to be our punch it through short down, goal line back.. He is not getting 1st downs and he is not getting TDs.

Here is a question for you, Its the NFC Championship game, Saints 9 Falcons 14 we have ball on the 3 yard line with 5 seconds left on the clock.

Is Ingram your guy?

No, Thomas is. I agree with you on that. But if Thomas was used like Ingram is, I wouldn't be as confident.

papz · 09-16-2013, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

P.Thomas-5.9
D.Sproles-3.6
M.Ingram-2.8

P.Thomas is an exception....the dude is a beast. Your right, stats can be misleading,but aren't YPC stats also? I have no idea why you think I'm using stats to lie....I'm making a point that Ingram is not all to blame here. He may not be the back we all expected him to be, but he's not as bad as some make him out to be.He had a couple decent runs, but people act like he did absolutely nothing at all. If that's the case, lets all bash Sproles for his 3.6 YPC game. Well look at that-I used a YPC stat!

He's averaging less than 2 yards per carry this year. If he rushed the ball 4 times, we'd still be 2 yards short of a first down.

I understand our offensive line hasn't been great this year(so far), but good players can make yards out of nothing. Right now, Ingram just isn't very good. I'm not saying we should take the guy out of our rotation completely, but something has to change on the way we use him and we need to some making excuses for him when he's failing. His criticism in warranted. His ability to read and diagnosis plays since he's been here has not changed. His ability to create yards after contact has not changed. The only thing that has changed from week to week is the amount of excuses we can come up with to deflect from his performance.

And if you're going to knock Sproles for averaging 3.6 YPC, please knock Ingram as well. That said if we ran Sproles even at 3.6 YPC, we'd be moving the chains.

I hope he turns things around. I hope he turns things around here. But sometimes things just don't work out the way they're intended to... and we need to acknowledge that and stop forcing it.

TheOak · 09-16-2013, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

P.Thomas-29 yds.
D.Sproles-26 yds.
M.Ingram-20 yds

Yea...your right. Thomas and Sproles are getting it done.

Its the o line's job to push the pile,NOT the RB.

People still "defend" Ingram because we all have a different point of view and you need to learn to respect that.

When you have RB by committee and RBs that have versatility you should probably look at stats differently. As far as for efficiency its all about YPC.

Thomas 5.8 YPC
Sproles 3.7 YPC
Ingram 2.5 YPC

If you want to look at production per touch then you need to add receptions in there also.

Thomas 9 touches 5.3 yards per touch (48 total yards)
Sproles 13 touches 4.7 Yards per touch (62 total yards)
Ingram 8 touches 2.5 yards per touch (20 total yards)

If you want to look at total yards as you did then you should probably recognize that Ingram had more carries than either PT or Sproles and had less yards.

Thomas 5 for 29 yards
Sproles 7 for 26 yards
Ingram 8 for 20 yards

Just looking at total yards is what announcers do to make a comment more glamorous. If Ingram has 40 carries than he would have a 100 yard game... You know who gets 40 carries per game? No one. Guess who gets 30 carries per game.. No one yet this year on any team. The best running backs in the league ave 25 carries per game.

Mr.Riaton · 09-16-2013, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

When you have RB by committee and RBs that have versatility you should probably look at stats differently. As far as for efficiency its all about YPC.

Thomas 5.8 YPC
Sproles 3.7 YPC
Ingram 2.5 YPC

If you want to look at production per touch then you need to add receptions in there also.

Thomas 9 touches 5.3 yards per touch (48 total yards)
Sproles 13 touches 4.7 Yards per touch (62 total yards)
Ingram 8 touches 2.5 yards per touch (20 total yards)

If you want to look at total yards as you did then you should probably recognize that Ingram had more carries than either PT or Sproles and had less yards.

Thomas 5 for 29 yards
Sproles 7 for 26 yards
Ingram 8 for 20 yards

Just looking at total yards is what announcers do to make a comment more glamorous. If Ingram has 40 carries than he would have a 100 yard game... You know who gets 40 carries per game? No one. Guess who gets 30 carries per game.. No one yet this year on any team. The best running backs in the league ave 25 carries per game.

Thomas and Sproles are used in the screen and pass game. That makes a difference. If Ingram was used that way, we may have a different player on our hands.

TheOak · 09-16-2013, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

Thomas and Sproles are used in the screen and pass game. That makes a difference. If Ingram was used that way, we may have a different player on our hands.

Are you saying that Sean Payton, often called one of the best play callers in the NFL has a brain fart every time it comes to Ingram?

I get that you like him and are trying but there is no silver lining. So PT is an exception in comparison.. Are all of our RBs an exception in comparison to Mark Ingram?

Mark Ingram Career: (28 games)

TDs - 10
1st downs - 59
YPC - 3.8

Chris Ivory Career: (26 games)

TDs - 8
1st Downs - 75
YPC - 4.9

The Dude · 09-16-2013, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

P.Thomas-29 yds.
D.Sproles-26 yds.
M.Ingram-20 yds

Yea...your right. Thomas and Sproles are getting it done.

Its the o line's job to push the pile,NOT the RB.

People still "defend" Ingram because we all have a different point of veiw and you need to learn to respect that.

On how many carries? How bout ypc? Thats what tells the real story. If you dont like someone disagreeing with your opinion dont post it.

09-16-2013, 04:35 AM	#1
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,308	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by The Dude Bull**. Thomas and Sproles can get it done he can't, plain and simple. Yes the Oline has to help, but he has got to win his one on ones and hes not getting it done. A good back is supposed to push the pile and make plays when plays arent there. That is his job and he is not doing it. Some of you guys act like the line is supposed to part like the Red Sea and let him run through it. It doesnt work that way, he has to do his part too. This dude is a ing bust here. You can say its the lines faullt all you want but I dont give a ** if hes the best RB to ever play the game, if hes not getting it done here then why should he be here. Why people still defend this guy is beyond me. P.Thomas-29 yds. D.Sproles-26 yds. M.Ingram-20 yds Yea...your right. Thomas and Sproles are getting it done. Its the o line's job to push the pile,NOT the RB. People still "defend" Ingram because we all have a different point of veiw and you need to learn to respect that. Budsdrinker and FinSaint like this.

09-16-2013, 06:50 AM	#2
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,797	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton P.Thomas-29 yds. D.Sproles-26 yds. M.Ingram-20 yds Yea...your right. Thomas and Sproles are getting it done. Its the o line's job to push the pile,NOT the RB. People still "defend" Ingram because we all have a different point of veiw and you need to learn to respect that. You should probably attach the YPC to that as well. Statistically, those numbers are very misleading... and you know it. Guess that phrase is right. Stats don't lie... people use stats to lie. pherein and WhoDat2301 like this.

09-16-2013, 07:23 AM	#3
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,308	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by papz You should probably attach the YPC to that as well. Statistically, those numbers are very misleading... and you know it. Guess that phrase is right. Stats don't lie... people use stats to lie. P.Thomas-5.9 D.Sproles-3.6 M.Ingram-2.8 P.Thomas is an exception....the dude is a beast. Your right, stats can be misleading,but aren't YPC stats also? I have no idea why you think I'm using stats to lie....I'm making a point that Ingram is not all to blame here. He may not be the back we all expected him to be, but he's not as bad as some make him out to be.He had a couple decent runs, but people act like he did absolutely nothing at all. If that's the case, lets all bash Sproles for his 3.6 YPC game. Well look at that-I used a YPC stat!

09-16-2013, 07:34 AM	#4
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,055	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton P.Thomas-5.9 D.Sproles-3.6 M.Ingram-2.8 P.Thomas is an exception....the dude is a beast. Your right, stats can be misleading,but aren't YPC stats also? I have no idea why you think I'm using stats to lie....I'm making a point that Ingram is not all to blame here. He may not be the back we all expected him to be, but he's not as bad as some make him out to be.He had a couple decent runs, but people act like he did absolutely nothing at all. If that's the case, lets all bash Sproles for his 3.6 YPC game. Well look at that-I used a YPC stat! Look brother, is he horrible? No Here are my issues with ingram: 1. We is a 1st round draft pick getting out run by Undrafted Free Agents. 2. He is "supposed" to be our punch it through short down, goal line back.. He is not getting 1st downs and he is not getting TDs. Here is a question for you, Its the NFC Championship game, Saints 9 Falcons 14 we have ball on the 3 yard line with 5 seconds left on the clock. Is Ingram your guy? thebdj and WhoDat2301 like this.

09-16-2013, 09:52 AM	#5
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,308	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by TheOak Look brother, is he horrible? No Here are my issues with ingram: 1. We is a 1st round draft pick getting out run by Undrafted Free Agents. 2. He is "supposed" to be our punch it through short down, goal line back.. He is not getting 1st downs and he is not getting TDs. Here is a question for you, Its the NFC Championship game, Saints 9 Falcons 14 we have ball on the 3 yard line with 5 seconds left on the clock. Is Ingram your guy? No, Thomas is. I agree with you on that. But if Thomas was used like Ingram is, I wouldn't be as confident.

09-16-2013, 07:47 AM	#6
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,797	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton P.Thomas-5.9 D.Sproles-3.6 M.Ingram-2.8 P.Thomas is an exception....the dude is a beast. Your right, stats can be misleading,but aren't YPC stats also? I have no idea why you think I'm using stats to lie....I'm making a point that Ingram is not all to blame here. He may not be the back we all expected him to be, but he's not as bad as some make him out to be.He had a couple decent runs, but people act like he did absolutely nothing at all. If that's the case, lets all bash Sproles for his 3.6 YPC game. Well look at that-I used a YPC stat! He's averaging less than 2 yards per carry this year. If he rushed the ball 4 times, we'd still be 2 yards short of a first down. I understand our offensive line hasn't been great this year(so far), but good players can make yards out of nothing. Right now, Ingram just isn't very good. I'm not saying we should take the guy out of our rotation completely, but something has to change on the way we use him and we need to some making excuses for him when he's failing. His criticism in warranted. His ability to read and diagnosis plays since he's been here has not changed. His ability to create yards after contact has not changed. The only thing that has changed from week to week is the amount of excuses we can come up with to deflect from his performance. And if you're going to knock Sproles for averaging 3.6 YPC, please knock Ingram as well. That said if we ran Sproles even at 3.6 YPC, we'd be moving the chains. I hope he turns things around. I hope he turns things around here. But sometimes things just don't work out the way they're intended to... and we need to acknowledge that and stop forcing it. TheOak likes this.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way. Last edited by papz; 09-16-2013 at 08:13 AM..

09-16-2013, 07:28 AM	#8
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,308	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by TheOak When you have RB by committee and RBs that have versatility you should probably look at stats differently. As far as for efficiency its all about YPC. Thomas 5.8 YPC Sproles 3.7 YPC Ingram 2.5 YPC If you want to look at production per touch then you need to add receptions in there also. Thomas 9 touches 5.3 yards per touch (48 total yards) Sproles 13 touches 4.7 Yards per touch (62 total yards) Ingram 8 touches 2.5 yards per touch (20 total yards) If you want to look at total yards as you did then you should probably recognize that Ingram had more carries than either PT or Sproles and had less yards. Thomas 5 for 29 yards Sproles 7 for 26 yards Ingram 8 for 20 yards Just looking at total yards is what announcers do to make a comment more glamorous. If Ingram has 40 carries than he would have a 100 yard game... You know who gets 40 carries per game? No one. Guess who gets 30 carries per game.. No one yet this year on any team. The best running backs in the league ave 25 carries per game. Thomas and Sproles are used in the screen and pass game. That makes a difference. If Ingram was used that way, we may have a different player on our hands.

09-16-2013, 07:40 AM	#9
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,055	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton Thomas and Sproles are used in the screen and pass game. That makes a difference. If Ingram was used that way, we may have a different player on our hands. Are you saying that Sean Payton, often called one of the best play callers in the NFL has a brain fart every time it comes to Ingram? I get that you like him and are trying but there is no silver lining. So PT is an exception in comparison.. Are all of our RBs an exception in comparison to Mark Ingram? Mark Ingram Career: (28 games) TDs - 10 1st downs - 59 YPC - 3.8 Chris Ivory Career: (26 games) TDs - 8 1st Downs - 75 YPC - 4.9

09-16-2013, 01:37 PM	#10
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,065	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton P.Thomas-29 yds. D.Sproles-26 yds. M.Ingram-20 yds Yea...your right. Thomas and Sproles are getting it done. Its the o line's job to push the pile,NOT the RB. People still "defend" Ingram because we all have a different point of veiw and you need to learn to respect that. On how many carries? How bout ypc? Thats what tells the real story. If you dont like someone disagreeing with your opinion dont post it.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,065

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: https://blackandgold.com/saints/60333-ingram-what-do-we-do-him.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date	Hits
The Latest New Orleans Saints News \| SportSpyder	This thread	Refback	09-15-2013 08:39 PM	2
Ingram- What do we do with him?	This thread	Refback	09-15-2013 08:30 PM	46