Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?

homerj07 · 09-16-2013, 10:31 PM

I won't argue that TB has a improved D. But we have a regressed O line.

QBREES9 · 09-16-2013, 11:48 PM

Tampa has a very good D.

The Dude · 09-17-2013, 12:02 AM

I agree Tampa has a good D. They will be top 10 at least. Our line still sucks though.

Jack Vegas · 09-17-2013, 12:06 AM

I went back and watched this game.

First offensive drive, the line was on point except for one play. Brees had nice big pockets to throw from. Sproles had a nice little 6-yard run, Ingram had an 8-yard run.

TB did catch us in a run blitz once, and sacked Brees once when Grubbs pulled for some reason and left a wide open hole. That had to have been a busted play.

The line struggled a bit more after the rain delay but I think some of that may be due to the wet field. Defensive line will always have an advantage in that situation because they get to dictate first move and our guys are stepping back on bad footing.

Honestly, going back and rewatching, there was some pressure but nothing we haven't seen in the past. I think Brees struggles were more the result of the Bucs' very talented secondary and linebackers in coverage. We aren't going to play many teams with that much talent on defense this season, just Seattle and that's it.

I have 100% faith the o-line will pull it together. We have three players in Grubbs, Evans and de la Puente who are considered elite at their positions, Strief is average but dependable and Brown who is just really getting his feet wet as a starter. This is a solid group of veteran players with a ton of success and none of them are even close to being over the hill. They're not suddenly just going to stink for no reason.

The Dude · 09-17-2013, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

I went back and watched this game.

First offensive drive, the line was on point except for one play. Brees had nice big pockets to throw from. Sproles had a nice little 6-yard run, Ingram had an 8-yard run.

TB did catch us in a run blitz once, and sacked Brees once when Grubbs pulled for some reason and left a wide open hole. That had to have been a busted play.

The line struggled a bit more after the rain delay but I think some of that may be due to the wet field. Defensive line will always have an advantage in that situation because they get to dictate first move and our guys are stepping back on bad footing.

Honestly, going back and rewatching, there was some pressure but nothing we haven't seen in the past. I think Brees struggles were more the result of the Bucs' very talented secondary and linebackers in coverage. We aren't going to play many teams with that much talent on defense this season, just Seattle and that's it.

I have 100% faith the o-line will pull it together. We have three players in Grubbs, Evans and de la Puente who are considered elite at their positions, Strief is average but dependable and Brown who is just really getting his feet wet as a starter. This is a solid group of veteran players with a ton of success and none of them are even close to being over the hill. They're not suddenly just going to stink for no reason.

I dont know who would consider de la Puente elite. Grubs was elite but is a far cry from Nicks, and Evans is hurt and god knows how bad or how long it will linger. And its not a sudden thing. They have been slowly regressing as we have let go of players. Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone, only Evans remains from the origianal line that was so good. You dont just replace a player a year and expect to not have a drop off. A good line can take a 2 or 3 seasons to gel with all the same players. Take away the coach who made it all happen and thats when you start having problems. Its been coming for years. Looks like Kromer was able to keep it together and now that he is gone it is starting to show. Sorry but I dont see them improving much over the course of the season.

Beastmode · 09-17-2013, 02:26 AM

I agree with JV on the wet field. I didn't hear any questions about it other than a comment about players cleaning their cleats often. We play that indoors and some of what Tampa was able to do gets nullified but no question they have talent. Our receivers were covered well. It's going to be interesting to see if they can repeat some of that against the Pats. I think our OL is good enough though. The last drive they stood their ground against a rested D and protected Brees when it absolutely mattered.

subguy · 09-17-2013, 02:32 AM

I too have concerns with the offensive line. Drew is also looking a bit more rushed than in the past. TB D is decent, but I feel there are more concerns than in past seasons. 2 weeks
does not a season make, I just don't want it to be a long season for our qb. I cannot see them getting stronger only more tired. I made this comment after watching week1.

AlaskaSaints · 09-17-2013, 02:45 AM

Our offensive gameplanning looks much more contrived than the rapid-fire, rapid strike, record-setting offense of the last two years. However, both of our opponents this year were first-rate defenses and Division rivals.

That has to count for "something".

Brees has stopped doing the tap dance that he was famous for in '09. He's flat-footed with head thrown back, attempting to see over the line. What used to be instinct is now taking longer and exposing him more often than in past years.

BUT, it's early, and we have TWO WINS that neither Tampa or Atlanta have.

Alaska

Crusader · 09-17-2013, 03:58 AM

I don't see there bein a problem with any certain player. Its more like the group hasn't really developed a chemistry yet.

Jack Vegas · 09-17-2013, 04:08 AM

[quote=The Dude;528796]I dont know who would consider de la Puente elite. /QUOTE]

Brian de la Puente signs RFA tender with Saints | ProFootballTalk

Pro Football Focus graded the 27-year-old de la Puente second among centers in 2012. According to PFF, de la Puente surrendered just two sacks in 1,134 snaps.

In 2012 BDP graded out as PFF's seventh best run blocking center and the 6th best pass blocking center among centers who played atleast 60% of their teams snaps).

As for your other points, Nicks is now a chronic injury case, while Grubbs has generally been considered among the top 2 or 3 left guards in the game most of his career. Bushrod was a decent run blocker who would be considered a liability if Brees hadn't been so adept at stepping up in the pocket and avoiding pressure all these years. Brown is about his equal overall. Stinchcomb was a solid guy in his prime but by the end of his career was terrible. Strief was definitely no downgrade from that.

The names may have changed but not much has been lost in terms of overall talent. You also have to keep in mind that offensive line play is one of those things that evolves over the course of the season. We'll know more by week 6 or so, but based on their play in the first two games I don't see any big reason to worry.

Originally Posted by Crusader

I don't see there bein a problem with any certain player. Its more like the group hasn't really developed a chemistry yet.

To me this is the issue more than anything. That and Evans' back injury.

Best example I can think of is 2003, that line was awful early on in the season but by week 5 or 6 they had got their stuff together and ended up being one of the better groups in football and Deuce ran for like a bajillion yards behind that line. Things will come together, just gotta be patient.

09-16-2013, 10:31 PM	#11
homerj07 In Doh We Trust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 7,027 Blog Entries: 16	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? I won't argue that TB has a improved D. But we have a regressed O line. MarchingOn likes this.

09-16-2013, 11:48 PM	#12
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,985	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? Tampa has a very good D. skymike likes this.

09-17-2013, 12:02 AM	#13
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,050	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? I agree Tampa has a good D. They will be top 10 at least. Our line still sucks though.
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09-17-2013, 12:06 AM	#14
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? I went back and watched this game. First offensive drive, the line was on point except for one play. Brees had nice big pockets to throw from. Sproles had a nice little 6-yard run, Ingram had an 8-yard run. TB did catch us in a run blitz once, and sacked Brees once when Grubbs pulled for some reason and left a wide open hole. That had to have been a busted play. The line struggled a bit more after the rain delay but I think some of that may be due to the wet field. Defensive line will always have an advantage in that situation because they get to dictate first move and our guys are stepping back on bad footing. Honestly, going back and rewatching, there was some pressure but nothing we haven't seen in the past. I think Brees struggles were more the result of the Bucs' very talented secondary and linebackers in coverage. We aren't going to play many teams with that much talent on defense this season, just Seattle and that's it. I have 100% faith the o-line will pull it together. We have three players in Grubbs, Evans and de la Puente who are considered elite at their positions, Strief is average but dependable and Brown who is just really getting his feet wet as a starter. This is a solid group of veteran players with a ton of success and none of them are even close to being over the hill. They're not suddenly just going to stink for no reason. AlaskaSaints likes this.
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09-17-2013, 01:52 AM	#15
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,050	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? Originally Posted by Jack Vegas I went back and watched this game. First offensive drive, the line was on point except for one play. Brees had nice big pockets to throw from. Sproles had a nice little 6-yard run, Ingram had an 8-yard run. TB did catch us in a run blitz once, and sacked Brees once when Grubbs pulled for some reason and left a wide open hole. That had to have been a busted play. The line struggled a bit more after the rain delay but I think some of that may be due to the wet field. Defensive line will always have an advantage in that situation because they get to dictate first move and our guys are stepping back on bad footing. Honestly, going back and rewatching, there was some pressure but nothing we haven't seen in the past. I think Brees struggles were more the result of the Bucs' very talented secondary and linebackers in coverage. We aren't going to play many teams with that much talent on defense this season, just Seattle and that's it. I have 100% faith the o-line will pull it together. We have three players in Grubbs, Evans and de la Puente who are considered elite at their positions, Strief is average but dependable and Brown who is just really getting his feet wet as a starter. This is a solid group of veteran players with a ton of success and none of them are even close to being over the hill. They're not suddenly just going to stink for no reason. I dont know who would consider de la Puente elite. Grubs was elite but is a far cry from Nicks, and Evans is hurt and god knows how bad or how long it will linger. And its not a sudden thing. They have been slowly regressing as we have let go of players. Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone, only Evans remains from the origianal line that was so good. You dont just replace a player a year and expect to not have a drop off. A good line can take a 2 or 3 seasons to gel with all the same players. Take away the coach who made it all happen and thats when you start having problems. Its been coming for years. Looks like Kromer was able to keep it together and now that he is gone it is starting to show. Sorry but I dont see them improving much over the course of the season.
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09-17-2013, 02:26 AM	#16
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? I agree with JV on the wet field. I didn't hear any questions about it other than a comment about players cleaning their cleats often. We play that indoors and some of what Tampa was able to do gets nullified but no question they have talent. Our receivers were covered well. It's going to be interesting to see if they can repeat some of that against the Pats. I think our OL is good enough though. The last drive they stood their ground against a rested D and protected Brees when it absolutely mattered.
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09-17-2013, 02:32 AM	#17
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,095	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? I too have concerns with the offensive line. Drew is also looking a bit more rushed than in the past. TB D is decent, but I feel there are more concerns than in past seasons. 2 weeks does not a season make, I just don't want it to be a long season for our qb. I cannot see them getting stronger only more tired. I made this comment after watching week1.

09-17-2013, 02:45 AM	#18
AlaskaSaints 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 2,484 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? Our offensive gameplanning looks much more contrived than the rapid-fire, rapid strike, record-setting offense of the last two years. However, both of our opponents this year were first-rate defenses and Division rivals. That has to count for "something". Brees has stopped doing the tap dance that he was famous for in '09. He's flat-footed with head thrown back, attempting to see over the line. What used to be instinct is now taking longer and exposing him more often than in past years. BUT, it's early, and we have TWO WINS that neither Tampa or Atlanta have. Alaska
	HERE WE COME, TA GE' CHU!!!!

09-17-2013, 03:58 AM	#19
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,025	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? I don't see there bein a problem with any certain player. Its more like the group hasn't really developed a chemistry yet.

09-17-2013, 04:08 AM	#20
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? [quote=The Dude;528796]I dont know who would consider de la Puente elite. /QUOTE] Brian de la Puente signs RFA tender with Saints \| ProFootballTalk Pro Football Focus graded the 27-year-old de la Puente second among centers in 2012. According to PFF, de la Puente surrendered just two sacks in 1,134 snaps. In 2012 BDP graded out as PFF's seventh best run blocking center and the 6th best pass blocking center among centers who played atleast 60% of their teams snaps). As for your other points, Nicks is now a chronic injury case, while Grubbs has generally been considered among the top 2 or 3 left guards in the game most of his career. Bushrod was a decent run blocker who would be considered a liability if Brees hadn't been so adept at stepping up in the pocket and avoiding pressure all these years. Brown is about his equal overall. Stinchcomb was a solid guy in his prime but by the end of his career was terrible. Strief was definitely no downgrade from that. The names may have changed but not much has been lost in terms of overall talent. You also have to keep in mind that offensive line play is one of those things that evolves over the course of the season. We'll know more by week 6 or so, but based on their play in the first two games I don't see any big reason to worry. Originally Posted by Crusader I don't see there bein a problem with any certain player. Its more like the group hasn't really developed a chemistry yet. To me this is the issue more than anything. That and Evans' back injury. Best example I can think of is 2003, that line was awful early on in the season but by week 5 or 6 they had got their stuff together and ended up being one of the better groups in football and Deuce ran for like a bajillion yards behind that line. Things will come together, just gotta be patient.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

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