Who is to blame?

saintz08 · 10-13-2004, 06:16 PM

Problem is, SF follows 08 and I around this forum like a stray dog.

I do supposee that is why he changed his avatar to a small cartoon character on a big wheel .....Get\'s him there faster ...

WhoDat · 10-13-2004, 07:31 PM

I do supposee that is why he changed his avatar to a small cartoon character on a big wheel .....Get\'s him there faster ...

LMAO. God that\'s funny.

The coordinators get my vote. They\'re just plain awful. Perhaps McCarthy would do well as a quarterbacks coach again, but he can\'t run an offense. And Venturi... well, I don\'t think I even need to comment on him.

And Haslett is responsible... somewhate because he chose those coordinators in the first place, but even more so because he kept them in their roles after it was apparent they were getting beaten. He\'s even made comments to the media after games about being outcoached - but he\'s done nothing about it.

LOE - that pretty much sums up how I feel. Haslett could probably make a decent coordinator, but he\'s just a bad head coach. It didn\'t help that Zook left him, but he\'s had ample time to replace Venturi, who is quite possibly the worst coordinator in the league.

I said at the time that Zook left that it was a very big loss for the Saints. I think he had more to do with the Saints early successes than any other person except maybe Mueller. Those two, IMO, meant more to the org. than any person currently on the staff.

As far as Haslett goes, he ultimately has made most of the decisions for the last three+ years and they just always seems to be wrong. He needs to replace his D-Coordinator, but doesn\'t act. His D-line is quite good so he reshuffles it a handful of times. The team needs corners he drafts WRs. It just seems to me that the Saints will never be successful with him as HC - and whether that\'s his fault or not is really irrelevant. I wanted him gone after the second collapse in 2002. He definitely needed to be fired after last year. Maybe Benson finally gets it. Afterall, Billy did, if he can anyone can.

BlackandBlue · 10-13-2004, 09:15 PM

I blame WhoDat

bayouking318 · 10-13-2004, 10:20 PM

Rick Venturi 99.9%

Let me tell you why. The only reason I can see McCarthy is not having us attacking fast and quick with touchdowns, throwing more deep passes is that our defense is so bad that the other teams will score just as fast. Trying to manage a game so our young defense will not lose compsure is wrong but having a def coordinator that can\'t lead horse to water is just plain dumb. I hear alot of people speaking highly of Venturi but what have he done beside kiss Benson a$$. The defense has drop tremendous since he been def coord. players are unmotivated to play for him. Getting rid of Venturi will be the best improvement and could be only a step forward

themightyduck · 10-13-2004, 10:49 PM

25% Rick Venturi - It\'s pretty much agreed on why he is largely responsible for the team\'s shortcomings on defense...

25% Jim Haslett - He continues to bewilder the media with his team\'s up and down performances, and his pink slip is becoming more and more realistic with every loss.

25% Mike McCarthy - Not only has he continued to define predictability, he still cannot get the most out of his players i.e. Donte Stallworth.

10% Mickey Loomis - He puts Benson\'s pocketbook first and the team second. Last offseason\'s free agent pickups were horrid. Two (Sam Gash and Germane Crowell) aren\'t even with the team, and Brian Young and Jason Craft have done little to nothing. And he even blamed himself for the team\'s suckiness for God\'s sake!

10% Saints Players - With the exception of Charles Grant, no one on this team has portrayed any sort of true leadership ability or energy. We still look like 53 players playing for the next paycheck.

5% Tom Benson - He has made enough dumb decisions since his first year to write a book on. He let Zook go without a fight, dropped Mueller only because he didn\'t like him, and has never even thought about firing our coordinators and our head coach.

Here\'s an idea for a new coaching staff, Tom: Hire the entire John Curtis High School coaching staff. :P If Curtis played the Saints tonight, I\'d put my money on Curtis.

WhoDat · 10-13-2004, 11:13 PM

I blame WhoDat

No, it wasn\'t me, it was my agenda. The agenda is to blame! HA!

The only reason I can see McCarthy is not having us attacking fast and quick with touchdowns, throwing more deep passes is that our defense is so bad that the other teams will score just as fast.

That\'s interesting. I think McCarthy\'s play calling is sometime brilliant, often overly predictable - but I couldn\'t ever really figure out why they used Deuce like Stephen Davis. IMO, the Saints offense should be spread and Deuce should run out of 3 and 4 WR sets like Faulk did with the Rams.

I\'m not sure how much truth there is to your statement, but it provides at least one explanation for why McCarthy calls games like he does. Unlike Venturi, I don\'t think McCarthy is just a dolt.

Limiting other teams\' possessions against our defense seems valid. I think he doesn\'t throw the deep ball b/c he has a QB who can\'t air it out very well. That\'s part of the reason I think they\'ve drafted the type of WRs who are explosive enough to turn a 7 yard slant into a 70 yard TD. Our QB is real good at throwing laser shots on short crossing patterns. Still, that\'s not nearly enough to explain why they don\'t spread it out throw it around and then utilize Deuce after the pass is established. I like it.

Saintsfan4ever · 10-14-2004, 01:12 AM

I really like Jim Haslett. I really want him to do well..... but.... sorry Jim, it just aint happenin for ya... and I can`t make any excuses for him.
Once you get below Benson and Loomis, whatever percent of blame is left over goes mainly on Haslett. And I think he knows that.

I do not want to see Jim go........what I want to see is Haslett turn this thing around. Can he do it?.... i dunno.... probably not......but hey, I`m a Saints fan, it`s in my nature to root for the underdog.

I`m not ready to give up on our season either. I wanta see these guys get their act together. Am I optimistically delusional?..maybe so... but something to note... I`ve never heard AB, Duece, Horn, Lewis, Boo, Grant, Howard or any of the players who have been around the block ever say anything negative about the coaching or the play calling.......

...has anyone heard the players comment or suggest that the blame is any thing other than their own ?

saintz08 · 10-14-2004, 02:57 AM

Oh it\'s the fans, 100%

:soleil: Saintfan did it .....

All those off season glory reports , the staff started believing them ......

[Edited on 14/10/2004 by saintz08]

saintfan · 10-14-2004, 09:42 AM

Where\'s the cops when you need \'em? Whodat? LMAO

Is this the \"Who is to blame\" thread or the \"Who is responsible\" thread?

Jim is responsible

The defense (Rick Venturi) seems, to me, to be most to blame.

bayouking318 · 10-14-2004, 10:19 AM

. I`ve never heard AB, Duece, Horn, Lewis, Boo, Grant, Howard or any of the players who have been around the block ever say anything negative about the coaching or the play calling.......

...has anyone heard the players comment or suggest that the blame is any thing other than their own ?

To answer your question ...YES... Last year Horn complain that OC didn\'t call plays that put the ball in his hands enough...Howard, I read in a magazine will not consider resigning cuz of his differences with Venturi...

I believe the only reasons we haven\'t heard anything from Boo cuz this his 1st year of notice, This Grant 3rd season and before this season is up I believe we will hear plenty from him bout Venturi.

10-13-2004, 06:16 PM	#11
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Who is to blame? Problem is, SF follows 08 and I around this forum like a stray dog. I do supposee that is why he changed his avatar to a small cartoon character on a big wheel .....Get\'s him there faster ...
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

10-13-2004, 07:31 PM	#12
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Who is to blame? I do supposee that is why he changed his avatar to a small cartoon character on a big wheel .....Get\'s him there faster ... LMAO. God that\'s funny. The coordinators get my vote. They\'re just plain awful. Perhaps McCarthy would do well as a quarterbacks coach again, but he can\'t run an offense. And Venturi... well, I don\'t think I even need to comment on him. And Haslett is responsible... somewhate because he chose those coordinators in the first place, but even more so because he kept them in their roles after it was apparent they were getting beaten. He\'s even made comments to the media after games about being outcoached - but he\'s done nothing about it. LOE - that pretty much sums up how I feel. Haslett could probably make a decent coordinator, but he\'s just a bad head coach. It didn\'t help that Zook left him, but he\'s had ample time to replace Venturi, who is quite possibly the worst coordinator in the league. I said at the time that Zook left that it was a very big loss for the Saints. I think he had more to do with the Saints early successes than any other person except maybe Mueller. Those two, IMO, meant more to the org. than any person currently on the staff. As far as Haslett goes, he ultimately has made most of the decisions for the last three+ years and they just always seems to be wrong. He needs to replace his D-Coordinator, but doesn\'t act. His D-line is quite good so he reshuffles it a handful of times. The team needs corners he drafts WRs. It just seems to me that the Saints will never be successful with him as HC - and whether that\'s his fault or not is really irrelevant. I wanted him gone after the second collapse in 2002. He definitely needed to be fired after last year. Maybe Benson finally gets it. Afterall, Billy did, if he can anyone can.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

10-13-2004, 09:15 PM	#13
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Who is to blame? I blame WhoDat

10-13-2004, 10:20 PM	#14
bayouking318 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monroe, La Posts: 209	Who is to blame? Rick Venturi 99.9% Let me tell you why. The only reason I can see McCarthy is not having us attacking fast and quick with touchdowns, throwing more deep passes is that our defense is so bad that the other teams will score just as fast. Trying to manage a game so our young defense will not lose compsure is wrong but having a def coordinator that can\'t lead horse to water is just plain dumb. I hear alot of people speaking highly of Venturi but what have he done beside kiss Benson a$$. The defense has drop tremendous since he been def coord. players are unmotivated to play for him. Getting rid of Venturi will be the best improvement and could be only a step forward

10-13-2004, 10:49 PM	#15
themightyduck 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: New Orleans, Louisiana Posts: 219	Who is to blame? 25% Rick Venturi - It\'s pretty much agreed on why he is largely responsible for the team\'s shortcomings on defense... 25% Jim Haslett - He continues to bewilder the media with his team\'s up and down performances, and his pink slip is becoming more and more realistic with every loss. 25% Mike McCarthy - Not only has he continued to define predictability, he still cannot get the most out of his players i.e. Donte Stallworth. 10% Mickey Loomis - He puts Benson\'s pocketbook first and the team second. Last offseason\'s free agent pickups were horrid. Two (Sam Gash and Germane Crowell) aren\'t even with the team, and Brian Young and Jason Craft have done little to nothing. And he even blamed himself for the team\'s suckiness for God\'s sake! 10% Saints Players - With the exception of Charles Grant, no one on this team has portrayed any sort of true leadership ability or energy. We still look like 53 players playing for the next paycheck. 5% Tom Benson - He has made enough dumb decisions since his first year to write a book on. He let Zook go without a fight, dropped Mueller only because he didn\'t like him, and has never even thought about firing our coordinators and our head coach. Here\'s an idea for a new coaching staff, Tom: Hire the entire John Curtis High School coaching staff. :P If Curtis played the Saints tonight, I\'d put my money on Curtis.
	When it comes to discussing Saints losses, Jack Daniels can be a great listener.

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10-13-2004, 11:13 PM	#16
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Who is to blame? I blame WhoDat No, it wasn\'t me, it was my agenda. The agenda is to blame! HA! The only reason I can see McCarthy is not having us attacking fast and quick with touchdowns, throwing more deep passes is that our defense is so bad that the other teams will score just as fast. That\'s interesting. I think McCarthy\'s play calling is sometime brilliant, often overly predictable - but I couldn\'t ever really figure out why they used Deuce like Stephen Davis. IMO, the Saints offense should be spread and Deuce should run out of 3 and 4 WR sets like Faulk did with the Rams. I\'m not sure how much truth there is to your statement, but it provides at least one explanation for why McCarthy calls games like he does. Unlike Venturi, I don\'t think McCarthy is just a dolt. Limiting other teams\' possessions against our defense seems valid. I think he doesn\'t throw the deep ball b/c he has a QB who can\'t air it out very well. That\'s part of the reason I think they\'ve drafted the type of WRs who are explosive enough to turn a 7 yard slant into a 70 yard TD. Our QB is real good at throwing laser shots on short crossing patterns. Still, that\'s not nearly enough to explain why they don\'t spread it out throw it around and then utilize Deuce after the pass is established. I like it.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

10-14-2004, 01:12 AM	#17
Saintsfan4ever 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Moss Point, MS Posts: 612 Blog Entries: 1	Who is to blame? I really like Jim Haslett. I really want him to do well..... but.... sorry Jim, it just aint happenin for ya... and I can`t make any excuses for him. Once you get below Benson and Loomis, whatever percent of blame is left over goes mainly on Haslett. And I think he knows that. I do not want to see Jim go........what I want to see is Haslett turn this thing around. Can he do it?.... i dunno.... probably not......but hey, I`m a Saints fan, it`s in my nature to root for the underdog. I`m not ready to give up on our season either. I wanta see these guys get their act together. Am I optimistically delusional?..maybe so... but something to note... I`ve never heard AB, Duece, Horn, Lewis, Boo, Grant, Howard or any of the players who have been around the block ever say anything negative about the coaching or the play calling....... ...has anyone heard the players comment or suggest that the blame is any thing other than their own ?
	Saint4

10-14-2004, 02:57 AM	#18
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Who is to blame? Oh it\'s the fans, 100% :soleil: Saintfan did it ..... All those off season glory reports , the staff started believing them ...... [Edited on 14/10/2004 by saintz08]
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

10-14-2004, 09:42 AM	#19
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Who is to blame? Where\'s the cops when you need \'em? Whodat? LMAO Is this the \"Who is to blame\" thread or the \"Who is responsible\" thread? Jim is responsible The defense (Rick Venturi) seems, to me, to be most to blame.

10-14-2004, 10:19 AM	#20
bayouking318 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monroe, La Posts: 209	Who is to blame? . I`ve never heard AB, Duece, Horn, Lewis, Boo, Grant, Howard or any of the players who have been around the block ever say anything negative about the coaching or the play calling....... ...has anyone heard the players comment or suggest that the blame is any thing other than their own ? To answer your question ...YES... Last year Horn complain that OC didn\'t call plays that put the ball in his hands enough...Howard, I read in a magazine will not consider resigning cuz of his differences with Venturi... I believe the only reasons we haven\'t heard anything from Boo cuz this his 1st year of notice, This Grant 3rd season and before this season is up I believe we will hear plenty from him bout Venturi.