Who is to blame?

WhoDat · 10-13-2004, 04:03 PM

A certain moderator on this board has continued to criticize another for pointing the finger of blame at Jim Haslett first and foremost. I'm wondering what you guys think. Who is most to blame? How would you break up the percentages between these factors for the Saints poor play this year, and over the last few years?

Tom Benson
Mickey Loomis
Jim Haslett
Rick Venturi
Mike McCarthy
Aaron Brooks (that's just for SF)
All of the other players except AB who continue to let AB down. LOL
Luck
Injuries
Other Factors not Mentioned

Break it up and tell me what you think. Also - should Haslett have to answer for the play of his team? Should he be held responsible for Venturi, McCarthy, the player moves, and the results on Sundays?

BrooksMustGo · 10-13-2004, 04:05 PM

Oh it\'s the fans, 100%. If anyone hears a \"boo\" they fold.

saintfan · 10-13-2004, 04:05 PM

So the old poll didn\'t pan out the way you wanted so you figured you\'d start a new one. This is beneath you whodat...really man. LOL

Rick Venturi

JOESAM2002 · 10-13-2004, 04:09 PM

The wheels on this bus go round and round, round and round, round and round. The wheels on THIS bus go round and round. :seeingstars:

WhoDat · 10-13-2004, 04:18 PM

Hey Joe, I\'m trying to avoid it. Problem is, SF follows 08 and I around this forum like a stray dog. I just went back and looked. There have been a good number of anti-brooks and anti-haz posts on this board in the last two to three weeks. Do you know that SF has not responded to a single one that 08 or I didn\'t either start or first get involved in?

I started this thread to open discussion between OTHERS. I know SF\'s opinion. I was hoping others would chime in - but alas, he followed me to this thread as usual. I bet if 08 and I stopped posting, the man who claims to be the defender of fair assessments wouldn\'t post much. I\'m just looking to get someone else\'s opinion.

saintfan · 10-13-2004, 04:23 PM

You started this thread for \"others\", yet you open it with this:

A certain moderator on this board has continued to criticize another for pointing the finger of blame at Jim Haslett first and foremost.

Doode, you\'re sad man. I recognize your tactics.

By the way, I started a couple that you felt the need to jump in on. I\'m not sure I see precisely what you mean? LOL

[Edited on 13/10/2004 by saintfan]

Cassady37 · 10-13-2004, 04:28 PM

Alright, I\'ll bite.....

Haslett-75%
Loomis-15%
Benson-10%

Haslett has had his way in whatever he has asked and this is HIS team. The coaches he has surrounded himself with has been his picks. The draft choices have been his picks and the cancers booted and kept have been his choices. Loomis is partly responsible because he is suppose to police the progress and decline of progress and make recommendations to Benson. Benson is the owner, but he can\'t be held too responsible because his bottom line is money and he continues to rake it in, win or lose.

D_it_up · 10-13-2004, 04:31 PM

Tom Benson 25% (Has kept Haslett around a season too long and got rid of Mueller)

Mickey Loomis (3% Mickey is more of a patsy than anything...he\'s just keeping the GM seat warm for when a REAL GM comes in...He just picks up the players that Haslett wants)

Jim Haslett (20% Keeps the worst coordinators in the league around, isn\'t a good motivator...needs to go back to defensive coordinator somewhere else)

Rick Venturi (10%-Let\'s face it. Defense has been atrocious with him at the helm)

Mike McCarthy (7%-One of the worst playcallers in the league, but still somehow manages to get the talent to work from time-to-time)

Aaron Brooks (5%-It\'s not his fault that Haslett doesn\'t want another QB to come in and replace him, but it is his fault that he hasn\'t improved his leadership skills)

All of the other players except AB who continue to let AB down. LOL (5%-It\'s a team effort...can\'t produce though when the coaching blows)

Luck (15%-WAYYYYYYYY too many close call games...games lost by a dropped pass, missed extra point, stupid penalties, turnovers, or defensive lapses)

Injuries (8%-Injuries have effected this team somewhat, but not the extent some believe. Darren Howard was the biggest injury we had last year)

Other Factors not Mentioned (2% ....Never taking blame for screwing another one up, Too many \"cancers\", Too many excuses that aren\'t fixed, Too many mental breakdowns in-game, etc...) Actually should be larger, but most of it goes hand in hand with the coaching.

fact-o-bake · 10-13-2004, 05:05 PM

I feel you have to blame the head coach first and foremost. If the players do poorly, it\'s either lack of talent, technique, game plan or desire. Talent is the one thing that can\'t be coached, but the head coach has a say in what kind of talent we acquire and where. The General Manager is typically the top dog in terms of signing the talented players, but it is the coach\'s responsibilty to make the best out of the tools he has to work with. As far as the saints go, the one thing they are not short on is talent.

LordOfEntropy · 10-13-2004, 05:29 PM

The coordinators get my vote. They\'re just plain awful. Perhaps McCarthy would do well as a quarterbacks coach again, but he can\'t run an offense. And Venturi... well, I don\'t think I even need to comment on him.

And Haslett is responsible... somewhate because he chose those coordinators in the first place, but even more so because he kept them in their roles after it was apparent they were getting beaten. He\'s even made comments to the media after games about being outcoached - but he\'s done nothing about it.

I put little to no blame on Loomis, as he\'s kept the cap well within control. There\'s certainly a reasonable amount of raw talent on the roster. I would preferred to have kept Meuller around, as I feel he was the difference maker for that playoff game. But after his departure, well, I believe Loomis has done reasonably well, at least well enough to not be made a scapegoat out of.

I blame Benson very little, really the only major gripe I have is the Meuller firing. Benson still pays the largest payroll in the entire NFL, does he not? He\'s shelling out the cash. I think his intentions are good, that he wants to see a champion in New Orleans before he dies.

But if he keeps Haslett-them-down-too-many-times, he\'ll never see it.

10-13-2004, 04:03 PM	#1
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Who is to blame? A certain moderator on this board has continued to criticize another for pointing the finger of blame at Jim Haslett first and foremost. I'm wondering what you guys think. Who is most to blame? How would you break up the percentages between these factors for the Saints poor play this year, and over the last few years? Tom Benson Mickey Loomis Jim Haslett Rick Venturi Mike McCarthy Aaron Brooks (that's just for SF) All of the other players except AB who continue to let AB down. LOL Luck Injuries Other Factors not Mentioned Break it up and tell me what you think. Also - should Haslett have to answer for the play of his team? Should he be held responsible for Venturi, McCarthy, the player moves, and the results on Sundays?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

10-13-2004, 04:05 PM	#2
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Who is to blame? Oh it\'s the fans, 100%. If anyone hears a \"boo\" they fold.

10-13-2004, 04:05 PM	#3
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Who is to blame? So the old poll didn\'t pan out the way you wanted so you figured you\'d start a new one. This is beneath you whodat...really man. LOL Rick Venturi

10-13-2004, 04:09 PM	#4
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Who is to blame? The wheels on this bus go round and round, round and round, round and round. The wheels on THIS bus go round and round. :seeingstars:

10-13-2004, 04:18 PM	#5
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Who is to blame? Hey Joe, I\'m trying to avoid it. Problem is, SF follows 08 and I around this forum like a stray dog. I just went back and looked. There have been a good number of anti-brooks and anti-haz posts on this board in the last two to three weeks. Do you know that SF has not responded to a single one that 08 or I didn\'t either start or first get involved in? I started this thread to open discussion between OTHERS. I know SF\'s opinion. I was hoping others would chime in - but alas, he followed me to this thread as usual. I bet if 08 and I stopped posting, the man who claims to be the defender of fair assessments wouldn\'t post much. I\'m just looking to get someone else\'s opinion.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

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10-13-2004, 04:23 PM	#6
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Who is to blame? You started this thread for \"others\", yet you open it with this: A certain moderator on this board has continued to criticize another for pointing the finger of blame at Jim Haslett first and foremost. Doode, you\'re sad man. I recognize your tactics. By the way, I started a couple that you felt the need to jump in on. I\'m not sure I see precisely what you mean? LOL [Edited on 13/10/2004 by saintfan]

10-13-2004, 04:28 PM	#7
Cassady37 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Kilgore, Texas Posts: 337	Who is to blame? Alright, I\'ll bite..... Haslett-75% Loomis-15% Benson-10% Haslett has had his way in whatever he has asked and this is HIS team. The coaches he has surrounded himself with has been his picks. The draft choices have been his picks and the cancers booted and kept have been his choices. Loomis is partly responsible because he is suppose to police the progress and decline of progress and make recommendations to Benson. Benson is the owner, but he can\'t be held too responsible because his bottom line is money and he continues to rake it in, win or lose.

10-13-2004, 04:31 PM	#8
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Who is to blame? Tom Benson 25% (Has kept Haslett around a season too long and got rid of Mueller) Mickey Loomis (3% Mickey is more of a patsy than anything...he\'s just keeping the GM seat warm for when a REAL GM comes in...He just picks up the players that Haslett wants) Jim Haslett (20% Keeps the worst coordinators in the league around, isn\'t a good motivator...needs to go back to defensive coordinator somewhere else) Rick Venturi (10%-Let\'s face it. Defense has been atrocious with him at the helm) Mike McCarthy (7%-One of the worst playcallers in the league, but still somehow manages to get the talent to work from time-to-time) Aaron Brooks (5%-It\'s not his fault that Haslett doesn\'t want another QB to come in and replace him, but it is his fault that he hasn\'t improved his leadership skills) All of the other players except AB who continue to let AB down. LOL (5%-It\'s a team effort...can\'t produce though when the coaching blows) Luck (15%-WAYYYYYYYY too many close call games...games lost by a dropped pass, missed extra point, stupid penalties, turnovers, or defensive lapses) Injuries (8%-Injuries have effected this team somewhat, but not the extent some believe. Darren Howard was the biggest injury we had last year) Other Factors not Mentioned (2% ....Never taking blame for screwing another one up, Too many \"cancers\", Too many excuses that aren\'t fixed, Too many mental breakdowns in-game, etc...) Actually should be larger, but most of it goes hand in hand with the coaching.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

10-13-2004, 05:05 PM	#9
fact-o-bake 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 136	Who is to blame? I feel you have to blame the head coach first and foremost. If the players do poorly, it\'s either lack of talent, technique, game plan or desire. Talent is the one thing that can\'t be coached, but the head coach has a say in what kind of talent we acquire and where. The General Manager is typically the top dog in terms of signing the talented players, but it is the coach\'s responsibilty to make the best out of the tools he has to work with. As far as the saints go, the one thing they are not short on is talent.
fact-o-bake 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 136

10-13-2004, 05:29 PM	#10
LordOfEntropy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,838	Who is to blame? The coordinators get my vote. They\'re just plain awful. Perhaps McCarthy would do well as a quarterbacks coach again, but he can\'t run an offense. And Venturi... well, I don\'t think I even need to comment on him. And Haslett is responsible... somewhate because he chose those coordinators in the first place, but even more so because he kept them in their roles after it was apparent they were getting beaten. He\'s even made comments to the media after games about being outcoached - but he\'s done nothing about it. I put little to no blame on Loomis, as he\'s kept the cap well within control. There\'s certainly a reasonable amount of raw talent on the roster. I would preferred to have kept Meuller around, as I feel he was the difference maker for that playoff game. But after his departure, well, I believe Loomis has done reasonably well, at least well enough to not be made a scapegoat out of. I blame Benson very little, really the only major gripe I have is the Meuller firing. Benson still pays the largest payroll in the entire NFL, does he not? He\'s shelling out the cash. I think his intentions are good, that he wants to see a champion in New Orleans before he dies. But if he keeps Haslett-them-down-too-many-times, he\'ll never see it.
	can anyone help me id this tune? it goes thwap thwap boom tch boom tch boom tch. Qui a laissez sortir les chiens!