Key to winning games? Jimmy Graham.

Schmohams · 12-16-2013, 08:03 PM

Through the first 5 games of the season Jimmy had 593 receiving yards, that is 118.6 yards a game. Through that stretch of games we went 5-0.

Through the previous 9 games Jimmy has 478 receiving yards, that is 53.1 yards a game. Through that stretch of games we went 5-4.

I don't like relying on one single person to get the job done but that's what we need to do to win and be successful in the playoffs. Jimmy Graham is simply the key to games. I don't know why he is not seeing the field, is he still hurt? Are we trying to lower his pay day to keep him from getting big stats? Are we resting him for playoffs? Is it a lack of effort? Did teams learn how to cover Graham? Has Payton just completely lost his mind?

I have no idea what is going on in the front office but not unleashing Graham vs the Panthers is going to hurt us in the long run. If this guy wants a payday he better freaking preform out of his shoes these last couple games.

WillSaints81 · 12-16-2013, 11:05 PM

I think Talib put out the blueprint, that was embarrassing looking back at how a CB was able to blanket a tightend but not an aging wide receiver.

Crusader · 12-17-2013, 02:02 AM

Graham is still hurt. His injury is nothing that heals quickly and especially not as long as he keeps running on it during the season.

saintsfan1976 · 12-17-2013, 07:52 AM

Key to winning is protecting Drew Brees.

Jets, Seahawks, Rams.

Each game where the O line failed to do so, the team lost.

Plain and simple. Our O line was absolutely *****-slapped by all three teams.

Patriots loss was an early Xmas present.

TheOak · 12-17-2013, 07:56 AM

The key to winning for the rest of the season is making Jimmy graham not the key to winning. If the rest of our receivers are playing their best games, shutting down Graham doesnt hurt us that bad. Colston is healthy and playing his arse off, Stills is clutch.

To say Talib put out the blue print to beating Graham ignores the fact that you have to have a Talib on your team to do it.

SaintsBro · 12-17-2013, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

To say Talib put out the blue print to beating Graham ignores the fact that you have to have a Talib on your team to do it.

I agree with the rest of your post, but this ^^^ I'm surprised you're falling for that line, Oak. That's just more Payton speak, he's been lying to us and the league, he's been masking/hiding flaws in this team all year by saying things like that on the podium. The truth is that in most of the games we've lost, Graham has been shut down, essentially invisible, a non-factor, and the offense suffers. And that was done by several teams that don't have a Talib, not just once. Seattle does not have Talib....the Rams do not have Talib.....I could go on but mercifully I'll stop.

Maybe he is playing hurt, in fact I'm sure he is... I could certainly buy into that, but it still doesn't seem to stop him from scoring 2 touchdowns and playing lights out Jimmy football some weeks (usually at home) and then disappearing completely in others.

You have to be wearing black and gold goggles at this point to try and argue that he is not getting shut down by teams that "don't have a Talib." Exhibit A, 2nd half Seattle.

TheOak · 12-17-2013, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

I agree with the rest of your post, but this ^^^ I'm surprised you're falling for that line, Oak. That's just more Payton speak, he's been lying to us and the league, he's been masking/hiding flaws in this team all year by saying things like that on the podium. The truth is that in most of the games we've lost, Graham has been shut down, essentially invisible, a non-factor, and the offense suffers. And that was done by several teams that don't have a Talib, not just once. Seattle does not have Talib....the Rams do not have Talib.....I could go on but mercifully I'll stop.

Maybe he is playing hurt, in fact I'm sure he is... I could certainly buy into that, but it still doesn't seem to stop him from scoring 2 touchdowns and playing lights out Jimmy football some weeks (usually at home) and then disappearing completely in others.

You have to be wearing black and gold goggles at this point to try and argue that he is not getting shut down by teams that "don't have a Talib." Exhibit A, 2nd half Seattle.

No need to go getting all personal.

Your argument proved my point. Talib man on man shut Jimmy graham down by him self. Name another defensive back that did it alone and caused us to lose.

Graham had no TDs against Chicago... We won.
Graham had no TDs against SF... We won.
Graham had no TDs against Dallas... We won.

Of course any team can put 3 men on Jimmy all night and shut him down, but that is not the blueprint to winning, Drew just uses other weapons.

With out a Talib that can do it 1 on 1 the answer is not the same. And the blue-print of shutting down Jimmy Graham being the key to victory is flawed.

Seattle didn't shut him down he had 1 TD
The Jets didnt shut him down he had 2 TDs
St Louis kept Jimmy out of the endzone but Drew threw for nearly 400 yards.

SaintsBro · 12-17-2013, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Seattle didn't shut him down he had 1 TD

Games have two halves. Games are more than one drive, which is basically all we had that went right in Seattle was that one drive, thank God for Jimmy's TD, and it was ridiculously difficult for them just to get that. Obviously, if your definition of "shut down" is absolute zero catches for zero yards in a game, sure, technically no one in the league can shut Jimmy down...you win. I'm talking about whatever a team does, to make Jimmy Graham become a non-factor...I'm simply asking, looking back on the losses, JUST the losses, what does Jimmy produce in the second half, 3rd, 4th quarter, in those games where we are trailing or it's close this year, and we lose? Is he making any big clutch plays late in the day, in those games? Is he making any plays in the second half at all?

Yes, St. Louis kept Jimmy out of the end zone -- and Drew threw for 400 yards. But who won that game, I forget....

I guess I'm not really arguing the "Talib gave the blueprint" meme as much as I'm pointing out, in the games we struggle, Graham is quite often sorta disappearing, in the 2nd half of the games that we have lost this year. Whether Talib is out there or not. Maybe it's the other team making standard halftime adjustments, I don't know. And lately -- as in Seattle and the Rams -- he's there in the 1st half, doing stuff, and then very much NOT there in the 2nd.

Now that may not be a "blueprint" or "shutting down" to you, but it's definitely happening, and it's ended up with the end result the other teams want, of beating the Saints. To say that "nobody shuts down Graham" is squirrely and disingenuous. It's just PR at this point.

TheOak · 12-17-2013, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

Games have two halves. Games are more than one drive, which is basically all we had that went right in Seattle was that one drive, thank God for Jimmy's TD, and it was ridiculously difficult for them just to get that. Obviously, if your definition of "shut down" is absolute zero catches for zero yards in a game, sure, technically no one in the league can shut Jimmy down...you win. I'm talking about whatever a team does, to make Jimmy Graham become a non-factor...I'm simply asking, looking back on the losses, JUST the losses, what does Jimmy produce in the second half, 3rd, 4th quarter, in those games where we are trailing or it's close this year, and we lose? Is he making any big clutch plays late in the day, in those games? Is he making any plays in the second half at all?

Yes, St. Louis kept Jimmy out of the end zone -- and Drew threw for 400 yards. But who won that game, I forget....

I guess I'm not really arguing the "Talib gave the blueprint" meme as much as I'm pointing out, in the games we struggle, Graham is quite often sorta disappearing, in the 2nd half of the games that we have lost this year. Whether Talib is out there or not. Maybe it's the other team making standard halftime adjustments, I don't know. And lately -- as in Seattle and the Rams -- he's there in the 1st half, doing stuff, and then very much NOT there in the 2nd.

Now that may not be a "blueprint" or "shutting down" to you, but it's definitely happening, and it's ended up with the end result the other teams want, of beating the Saints. To say that "nobody shuts down Graham" is squirrely and disingenuous. It's just PR at this point.

My point is the OP saying that JG is the key and someone saying that Talib laid a groundwork that any defensive back can use to shut down Jimmy Graham...

We have won a few games where Jimmy didn't do much and lost some games where he scored. There has been nothing consistent in our wins and losses to back up either claim. We can win with out him and we can lose with him.

What Jimmy does is not always Jimmy... Drew was pretty much part of the loss in Seattle and to St Louis.... I would argue more so than Jimmy.

When Sproles has 12 targets and catches 6 of them against the Patriots, that is as huge as anything graham does or doesn't do.

Graham had a monster game against the Jets... How did that work out for us?

There is no one player to key off of in regards to losing or winning. Not even INTs, we have beat teams with Drew throwing 2 and lost games with Drew throwing 2...

Mardigras9 · 12-17-2013, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

The key to winning for the rest of the season is making Jimmy graham not the key to winning.

Like x 10.

Graham should just be the nail in the coffin as defenses try to stop let's say a more effective run game causing the ability to exploit him in a complete coverage mis-match.

12-16-2013, 08:03 PM	#1
Schmohams 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Texas Posts: 551	Key to winning games? Jimmy Graham. Through the first 5 games of the season Jimmy had 593 receiving yards, that is 118.6 yards a game. Through that stretch of games we went 5-0. Through the previous 9 games Jimmy has 478 receiving yards, that is 53.1 yards a game. Through that stretch of games we went 5-4. I don't like relying on one single person to get the job done but that's what we need to do to win and be successful in the playoffs. Jimmy Graham is simply the key to games. I don't know why he is not seeing the field, is he still hurt? Are we trying to lower his pay day to keep him from getting big stats? Are we resting him for playoffs? Is it a lack of effort? Did teams learn how to cover Graham? Has Payton just completely lost his mind? I have no idea what is going on in the front office but not unleashing Graham vs the Panthers is going to hurt us in the long run. If this guy wants a payday he better freaking preform out of his shoes these last couple games.
	"Football is the reason for everything I've ever been able to have. That's why it's so important to me. It's everything for me." - Rickey Jackson

12-16-2013, 11:05 PM	#2
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,267	Re: Key to winning games? Jimmy Graham. I think Talib put out the blueprint, that was embarrassing looking back at how a CB was able to blanket a tightend but not an aging wide receiver.

12-17-2013, 02:02 AM	#3
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,031	Re: Key to winning games? Jimmy Graham. Graham is still hurt. His injury is nothing that heals quickly and especially not as long as he keeps running on it during the season.

12-17-2013, 07:52 AM	#4
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,972 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Key to winning games? Jimmy Graham. Key to winning is protecting Drew Brees. Jets, Seahawks, Rams. Each game where the O line failed to do so, the team lost. Plain and simple. Our O line was absolutely *****-slapped by all three teams. Patriots loss was an early Xmas present.

12-17-2013, 07:56 AM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: Key to winning games? Jimmy Graham. The key to winning for the rest of the season is making Jimmy graham not the key to winning. If the rest of our receivers are playing their best games, shutting down Graham doesnt hurt us that bad. Colston is healthy and playing his arse off, Stills is clutch. To say Talib put out the blue print to beating Graham ignores the fact that you have to have a Talib on your team to do it. Danno, savoyk, Mardigras9 and 1 others like this.

12-17-2013, 08:59 AM	#6
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Key to winning games? Jimmy Graham. Originally Posted by TheOak To say Talib put out the blue print to beating Graham ignores the fact that you have to have a Talib on your team to do it. I agree with the rest of your post, but this ^^^ I'm surprised you're falling for that line, Oak. That's just more Payton speak, he's been lying to us and the league, he's been masking/hiding flaws in this team all year by saying things like that on the podium. The truth is that in most of the games we've lost, Graham has been shut down, essentially invisible, a non-factor, and the offense suffers. And that was done by several teams that don't have a Talib, not just once. Seattle does not have Talib....the Rams do not have Talib.....I could go on but mercifully I'll stop. Maybe he is playing hurt, in fact I'm sure he is... I could certainly buy into that, but it still doesn't seem to stop him from scoring 2 touchdowns and playing lights out Jimmy football some weeks (usually at home) and then disappearing completely in others. You have to be wearing black and gold goggles at this point to try and argue that he is not getting shut down by teams that "don't have a Talib." Exhibit A, 2nd half Seattle.

12-17-2013, 09:25 AM	#7
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: Key to winning games? Jimmy Graham. Originally Posted by SaintsBro I agree with the rest of your post, but this ^^^ I'm surprised you're falling for that line, Oak. That's just more Payton speak, he's been lying to us and the league, he's been masking/hiding flaws in this team all year by saying things like that on the podium. The truth is that in most of the games we've lost, Graham has been shut down, essentially invisible, a non-factor, and the offense suffers. And that was done by several teams that don't have a Talib, not just once. Seattle does not have Talib....the Rams do not have Talib.....I could go on but mercifully I'll stop. Maybe he is playing hurt, in fact I'm sure he is... I could certainly buy into that, but it still doesn't seem to stop him from scoring 2 touchdowns and playing lights out Jimmy football some weeks (usually at home) and then disappearing completely in others. You have to be wearing black and gold goggles at this point to try and argue that he is not getting shut down by teams that "don't have a Talib." Exhibit A, 2nd half Seattle. No need to go getting all personal. Your argument proved my point. Talib man on man shut Jimmy graham down by him self. Name another defensive back that did it alone and caused us to lose. Graham had no TDs against Chicago... We won. Graham had no TDs against SF... We won. Graham had no TDs against Dallas... We won. Of course any team can put 3 men on Jimmy all night and shut him down, but that is not the blueprint to winning, Drew just uses other weapons. With out a Talib that can do it 1 on 1 the answer is not the same. And the blue-print of shutting down Jimmy Graham being the key to victory is flawed. Seattle didn't shut him down he had 1 TD The Jets didnt shut him down he had 2 TDs St Louis kept Jimmy out of the endzone but Drew threw for nearly 400 yards.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

12-17-2013, 12:07 PM	#8
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Key to winning games? Jimmy Graham. Originally Posted by TheOak Seattle didn't shut him down he had 1 TD Games have two halves. Games are more than one drive, which is basically all we had that went right in Seattle was that one drive, thank God for Jimmy's TD, and it was ridiculously difficult for them just to get that. Obviously, if your definition of "shut down" is absolute zero catches for zero yards in a game, sure, technically no one in the league can shut Jimmy down...you win. I'm talking about whatever a team does, to make Jimmy Graham become a non-factor...I'm simply asking, looking back on the losses, JUST the losses, what does Jimmy produce in the second half, 3rd, 4th quarter, in those games where we are trailing or it's close this year, and we lose? Is he making any big clutch plays late in the day, in those games? Is he making any plays in the second half at all? Yes, St. Louis kept Jimmy out of the end zone -- and Drew threw for 400 yards. But who won that game, I forget.... I guess I'm not really arguing the "Talib gave the blueprint" meme as much as I'm pointing out, in the games we struggle, Graham is quite often sorta disappearing, in the 2nd half of the games that we have lost this year. Whether Talib is out there or not. Maybe it's the other team making standard halftime adjustments, I don't know. And lately -- as in Seattle and the Rams -- he's there in the 1st half, doing stuff, and then very much NOT there in the 2nd. Now that may not be a "blueprint" or "shutting down" to you, but it's definitely happening, and it's ended up with the end result the other teams want, of beating the Saints. To say that "nobody shuts down Graham" is squirrely and disingenuous. It's just PR at this point.

12-17-2013, 12:56 PM	#9
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: Key to winning games? Jimmy Graham. Originally Posted by SaintsBro Games have two halves. Games are more than one drive, which is basically all we had that went right in Seattle was that one drive, thank God for Jimmy's TD, and it was ridiculously difficult for them just to get that. Obviously, if your definition of "shut down" is absolute zero catches for zero yards in a game, sure, technically no one in the league can shut Jimmy down...you win. I'm talking about whatever a team does, to make Jimmy Graham become a non-factor...I'm simply asking, looking back on the losses, JUST the losses, what does Jimmy produce in the second half, 3rd, 4th quarter, in those games where we are trailing or it's close this year, and we lose? Is he making any big clutch plays late in the day, in those games? Is he making any plays in the second half at all? Yes, St. Louis kept Jimmy out of the end zone -- and Drew threw for 400 yards. But who won that game, I forget.... I guess I'm not really arguing the "Talib gave the blueprint" meme as much as I'm pointing out, in the games we struggle, Graham is quite often sorta disappearing, in the 2nd half of the games that we have lost this year. Whether Talib is out there or not. Maybe it's the other team making standard halftime adjustments, I don't know. And lately -- as in Seattle and the Rams -- he's there in the 1st half, doing stuff, and then very much NOT there in the 2nd. Now that may not be a "blueprint" or "shutting down" to you, but it's definitely happening, and it's ended up with the end result the other teams want, of beating the Saints. To say that "nobody shuts down Graham" is squirrely and disingenuous. It's just PR at this point. My point is the OP saying that JG is the key and someone saying that Talib laid a groundwork that any defensive back can use to shut down Jimmy Graham... We have won a few games where Jimmy didn't do much and lost some games where he scored. There has been nothing consistent in our wins and losses to back up either claim. We can win with out him and we can lose with him. What Jimmy does is not always Jimmy... Drew was pretty much part of the loss in Seattle and to St Louis.... I would argue more so than Jimmy. When Sproles has 12 targets and catches 6 of them against the Patriots, that is as huge as anything graham does or doesn't do. Graham had a monster game against the Jets... How did that work out for us? There is no one player to key off of in regards to losing or winning. Not even INTs, we have beat teams with Drew throwing 2 and lost games with Drew throwing 2...
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

12-17-2013, 09:11 AM	#10
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: Key to winning games? Jimmy Graham. Originally Posted by TheOak The key to winning for the rest of the season is making Jimmy graham not the key to winning. Like x 10. Graham should just be the nail in the coffin as defenses try to stop let's say a more effective run game causing the ability to exploit him in a complete coverage mis-match.

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