Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Yeah I don't seen the fumbling issue there ?

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

I see your point but when you start cutting all of these backs, who do you plan on replacing them with???

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

People have been trying to write Thomas off for years. Now it's because he's too old and the proof is that he couldn't run the ball from scrimmage this year. You know like Ingram, Sproles and Robinson. Oh that's right those other guys couldn't run because the O Line wasn't blocking.

Thomas is just old, slow and injury prone. The only thing he's good for is being one of the best receiving threats out of the backfield in the league. If you can't get yards from scrimmage behind a bad O Line you're not any good. Unless you're Mark Ingram or K Rob. (Sproles is worthless too apparently.) Then it's the lines fault.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Apparently our definition of bad is different: Mark Ingram had a 4.9 yards/att stat...

Khiry had a 4.1 yards/att

Thomas had a 3.7 yards/att

Sproles had a 4.2 yards/att

Ingram had a 9.7 yards per catch average and Thomas had a 6.7 yards per catch, so I guess that debunks the best screen back we have opinion

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

How many catches did Thomas get and how many did ingram get? Sure they attempted more to Thomas than Ingram so the smaller sample size would look better than Thomas who's gotten more and had more chances to get stopped.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

That is a great point about why we rely on the screen game so often. I have never thought of that.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

CUTS:
Smith
Sproles
Thomas
Moore

Restructures:
Harper
Greer

Re-sign
Graham
Bush
Wade
Haralson

Cap Room
$168,546


Still need to sign the drafted players and need a new RT and C. Not going to be an easy year for Loomis. Restructuring Brees is out of the question because we need to save that for next year. Colston could restructure to save 3.05m or we could cut PRob to save 1.3m. Don't expect some major signings this year. Going to be a harsh off-season in my opinion.

You can play with the cap at this site... see how you do.

Salary Cap Calculator - Over the Cap

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

How do you know that with more catches Ingrams yards per catch would go down? He might have had a bigger average with more attempts, no one can be sure until it happens...

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

He had 13 tackles, zero sacks. Good for rotational, but not for $5 mill

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Sack and tackle stats for a DT are as useless as tits on a bull.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Thomas, Moore and Sproles is who I'd keep.
I'd get something of value for Ingram, while some people think he's worth it.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

It's all about collapsing the pocket, which Jenkins and Bunkley both did very well :bng:

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

In the absence of stats, look at the comparables:
24 DT's had over 40 tackles last year
65 DT's had more tackles than BB
these guys are pressuring the pocket AND coming up with the numbers

BB is the 16th highest paid DT- as we look at every nickel, his name is going to come up

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Is that DTs or NTs? There is quite a big difference between being a 5 tech DT and a 0 or 1 tech NT.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

only thing about Lance Moore and Meachem is they show up 4 games out of the season.

Kenny Stills gets a pass due to being a rookie.

PT and Sproles are deadly in the screen game, the screen game dont work unless they are decent in the run game which they havent been.

Their needs to be some fixes on the offense otherwise we will start seeing more games like we saw vs Panthers, Jets, and Seahawks.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

JP, If you look at it like I'm looking at it we need another bad a$$ DT up front, one that not only plays the nose in a 3-4 but can play all the front line, keep in mind 6 linemen in a 3-4 that is why I want Hageman in the 1st. As of now we have 5 really good linemen add Hagemen thats 6 and a rookie at that to bring along with Jenkins, Jordon, Hicks and Walker. I would not let Bunkley go this year either. About the lb.'s I wanted to pull the trigger on Van Noy in the 2nd but we need more help on the O line, I did mock this guy Andrew Jackson ILB because we need a thug type in the middle and if him and Rufus could be paired together in the middle over time I do't think we would have to ever worry about the run. Basically in a nut-shell what I would like to see out of our front 7 is to go thug type just like the Dome Patrol was. The pieces are almost there.

Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

To Showtime5: Danno asked a question and gave a list to choose from. From that you went off like someone was about to steal your wobie, threw out insulting remarks, and to stick with your assumption theme made a few emotional inaccurate claims, and questioned his fandom.

On a scale from 1 to invade Russia in the Winter, how well thought out are your replies?

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Our backs rarely if ever put the ball on the turf, and that is all of them... including Mark.... I saw Darren Sproles fumble this season in a game that was over even before he got the carry, im not sure, it might have been his first fumble as a Saint....... and he is over on the sideline berating himself worse than any coach could have...... <<< That is the standard we set. if they hold themselves to that type of standard, a standard that they themselves set...... then yes, it is an issue.....

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

So two fumbles in three years is a fumbling problem to you?
I just don't know how to reply to that one.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

All of these? Im not suggesting cutting every Saints running back :rofl: To me we ran the ball better when forced to go to a two back rotation with one extra back for injury....

New Back... I think my two names were Jeremy Hill, or Andre Williams
Khiry
Sproles.... Healthy of course......

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Then don't. I fully explained why I felt that way.... I think I did that well enough for you to understand why I felt that way........ But, if that's not enough for you I could also add the injury history, and the 2 plus years of two yards and a cloud of dust if the first part doesn't help you.... I don't feel he is the future of our back field.... It's an opinion... my opinion, and mine only!!!!

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Not if you start placing more names on that cut list........ Also a few questions, Why are people so high on Haralson??? Ive seen 3 or 4 people now including my brother who love Haralson off two similar injuries coming back??? why bring Greer back if you draft a starter and you bring back a younger P Rob, and Corey White???

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Well that Big Boob Bull is worth 5 million, shouldn't we at least consider restructuring it.....

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

I say let sproles go but keep thomas, thomas is very underated. Smith, Jreer, moore should go. Also dont sign haralson he is a great player no doubt but he is too injury prone

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Haralson plays the run very well and comes cheap.

You keep Greer and Harper off of restructures. If they are unwilling then cut them, but you can restructure them to a point where you would only save 500k cutting them... doesn't make sense to do that.

As far as cutting more people; it gets really tight. Everyone in this thread talks about cutting Buckley but if you look at his 6.1m cap number but 5m in dead money cutting him to save 1.1m doesn't make sense.

The more I think about it i don't know if we can afford to keep Graham. If we keep him we might lose 3-4 starters through cuts alone. We have had the #1 offense without Graham in the past, is he really worth it?

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

YES!!!

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Zip Jeremy Hill. I don't think Payton would want to waste time developing this kid when we have Ingram, Khiry etc. Plus JH off the field issues are still a concern.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Cutting:

1. You can cut when a player is depth but doesn't play.

2. You can cut when there is no dead money associated.

3. You can cut when cap hit is higher than dead money hit..... AND you can find better talent for no more than the difference.


Anything other that will hurt.

You don't cut a 5M cap hit with 4.5M dead money and replace with equal talent. WTF is the gain?

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Honestly, I could see the Saints being just fine with all of the suggested individuals gone, but I would like to see at least Ingram and either Sproles or Thomas back... not necessarily both. While a large staple of backs is nice, I'd like to see the Saints highlight fewer of them during a single game, so that they'd be able to get into the running game a bit better - I think this especially holds true for Ingram.

Moore is another one I'd like to see back, but I'm not entirely sure if it's more from an emotional standpoint than production versus investment. A lot depends on Toon as well, if he can actually become a contributing part of this offense then maybe Stills could take up Moore's spot, but again that's an unknown while Moore is at this point of his career a well known commodity.

I feel like Greer's time with the Saints is done, while he is/was still a great coverage CB, he has started to lack the physicality to keep up with many of the younger more physical receivers around. Add that to the effect that this latest injury may have on his long-term conditioning, and the Saints might be better of giving his roster spot to a younger player. I'd like to see Robinson given (yet) another chance to show his worth, but if the staff thinks it's time to part with him I can certainly understand the logic behind that decision as well.

And definitely keep Bunkley around - if his contract can be massaged a bit all the better, but even with the terms in place I think he is a keeper.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Thomas is most likely to be cut because he a no dwad money at all...

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Not as cheap as a not injury prone Rookie... He's holding a spot for somebody who could be producing, much like Travis Cadet.

Bush, and Vaccaro are going to be the starting safeties going into next season. You will draft another FS... You don't need Roman Harper.... The same can be said for Greer... He has had an admirable Saints career. Done more than anyone could have asked. But he wasn't a #1 corner when Tracy Porter left, and he is not a #2 corner now after the injury on the wrong side of 30. Patrick Robinson is younger, and Corey White is gonna get better by going back to slot duty... LET GO!!!!!

YES, YES, AND AGAIN YES.... worth every red ginger nickel.... We have been reaping off of him since that 3rd round selection...

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

the cap is a mess. super bowl hang over contracts are killing us.

Mickey has a plan i hope

draft is the best way to address a cap issue.

so sit back and watch and see what happens

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

No sir. We do not have anyone on a big contract due to the SB. Evans and Brees are about it and they were All-Pro, Pro-Bowl, MVPs, etc... Smiths huge contract was from 2008.

We only have 9-10 players that were even on that 2009 team.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Thats true, but he did nail it on the draft comment. The best way to bring that cap down is to start hitting on draft picks.

We knocked it out of the ball park (and halfway across the parking lot)
in 2013. Another year or two like that and we'll be sitting pretty cap wise, even with Drews big contract.

BTW, Drew is currently the 4th highest paid QB in the league. With Newton, Wilson, Kaeppernick contracts coming up soon he'll probably drop out of the top 5. His contract amount isn't all that absurd.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Its a catch-22 Danno. Too many draft homeruns will balloon on you especially when you make it to a SB or NFCCG. FAs are less likely to balloon on you as their market values have been pretty much set after their rookie contract.

Your examples on Kaep and Wilson prove my point which leaves a dilemma.

A. You get a good blend and maintain some retention.

B. You flood the team with youth and every three years if you are successful have to deal with high turnover because you cant fit all the outstanding players under your cap.

Its a good problem to have but still a problem none the less. In my opinion the solution is not an either, or; but a blend. The short term solution typically looks fantastic until you look at the effect long term.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Good points, and its also why every team needs solid role players. Role players won't break the bank and help maintain continuity year to year. You can't afford to have an all-pro at every position.