Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Which is what most fans do. They look at the weakest link and want to throw a Jerry Rice in there, it never ends.... There will always be a weakest link.

Some positions require a serviceable player and some benefit a great deal more from play makers.

Dual roll players..- We have the #2 passing defense but some want to replace our LBs for players that "might" be better in coverage, but at what expense? To get run on?

Lets not forget that some passes are only defensible by accident.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

he is coming back? sign him sign him now :p

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

in all honesty i do not see my dreams being full filled this year in FA.

might get some nice second tier players and re shuffle the practice squad

but the draft is the key to getting a handle on this cap issue for the next few years.

so i am wondering if the saints will finally get a grip on the draft and take a blue print from other good teams.

now will the saints trade back? trade a player or two? or a package of both?

nah history says we will get fewer picks than we started with

on the bright side redoing Drew contract next year is a very friendly move for the team vs. doing it this year.

money says player walk and get tagged and we are in the same boat next year but with the shore in sight

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Spotrac is updated a lot better than OTC> We signed Nsekhe for 496k and Brooks for 420k in the last two days. I don't like OTC because it leaves things out.

Our Over is presently $15,249,590m
We have 1,626,985 carry over from 2013 to 2014

Also the 2014 Cap commitment you are showing is only for TOP 51


Then there still is:

Resigning Free Agents
Signing Draft picks
Practice squad
Saving 2m in reserve for injuries during camp and or preseason.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Nsekhe is huge, but old for a 'futures'. Maybe Brown is a goner after all.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Futures contracts are for off season or practice squad... But I wouldn't say he is that old... He has had 2 seasons in the NFL and only been out of college for 5 years.

My thoughts are that Brown is done, Armstead will be out starting LT and Nsekhe is depth at best.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

I think he is 28...
I guess I assumed 'futures' as in young players, not 'future' as in a date forthcoming

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

A "futures" contract is a contract that basically secures someone for the upcoming off-season and or practice squad.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

How much cap room do we really need to free up?

Well lets see (my approximation):

15.3 mil over the cap now.

+6.5 mil for Jimmy's contract (first year is usually lower)

+3.5 mil for a RT contract (at a minimum)

+3.2 mil for a C contract (middle of the pack)

+2.1 mil for Bush (proved he can start)

+1 mil for Haralson/other for OLB depth

+3.5 mil for all draft pick signings

+2 mil for emergency injury funds during the season.


That's about 37 mil we need to free up... 37 million wow

Now lets cut everyone on the list that was originally posted:

Cap hit minus dead money = Cap savings if cut
Will Smith - 13,902,451 - 2,352,451 = 11,550,000
Darren Sproles - 4,250,000 - 750,000 = 3,500,000
Jabari Greer - 5,825,000 – 2,650,000 = 3,175,000
Pierre Thomas – 2,900,000 – 0 = 2,900,000
Lance Moore - 5,068,750 - 2,357,500 = 2,711,250
Roman Harper - 5,870,000 - 3,690,000 = 2,180,000
Mark Ingram - 2,359,875 - 973,500 = 1,386,375
Patrick Robinson - 2,804,333 - 1,446,833 = 1,357,500

If we cut all of them we save 28.45 mil..

Leaving us with another 8.55 mil to cut... It's going to be a tough off-season. Come-on Mickey, pull another out of your hat please.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Not to pour fuel on the fire... Add another 7M to the need.

Sign 7 draft picks
Practice squad
Still have 2-3M to start the season in case we need to find someone because of an injury.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

I added all of that type of money.. unless you think I undersold it.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Kinda depressing when you put it that way.

Therefore, looks like no new center (Lelito shuffle), Bush only gets 1 million or walks, Harris steps in at RT, practice squad players forced to step up.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Yeah, I know...

I really don't envy Loomis right now. He is going to have a rough time getting the cap in-order. If anyone can do it, Loomis can.

Brees is willing to restructure but that kills us next year.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

I think I'm gonna vomit

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

From something i posted in another thread.


Trade Colston and free up 8.3M in cap space...

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Evans, Grubbs, Colston, PRobinson and Bunkley can be restructured as well.

Thanks for looking up those replacement costs. I was going to do that too but didn't have the time.

I'd guess we'll probably have room for 2 big free-agent signings, Graham and Strief are my two choices. Bush is a RFA so we can tender him low.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Drastic times...

Its not outside the realm of possibility. We're gonna lose some really popular players. Its looking inevitable that players like PT, Colston, Moore, Graham (?), Sproles, Ingram, may be playing for someone else next year.

Question, because the new CBA screws me up...signing bonus still stays with the Saints even if we trade a player. So Colston's signing bonus portion of his dead money will still apply to our cap, right? If so trading Colston hurts our cap instead of helps.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Crap, your right.... Only caveat being that if it's after June 1st it's divided out over 2 years.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Keeping Colston costs us 8 million
Trading Colston costs us 10 million (or 5 this year plus 5 next year), and then we still have to replace him.

Its cheaper to keep him than trade him.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Hey guys, look on the bright Brees and his 100 million will rest nice!!

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Still stuck on that......

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Amazes me still. His contract is exactly equal to market value. I'm not happy about his tactics, but his contract is on par with his talent.

If people wanna cry about over-paying someone, they should focus on Will Smith, Marques Colston, Lance Moore, Pierre Thomas, Thomas Morstead, Broderick Bunkley, Darren Sproles, Roman Harper, and Curtis Lofton.

Drew's contract is far from the main problem.

Wanna bet we pay the stay puff marshmallow TE about 20 million too much?

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Tactics are what agents do, if there were no tactics there would be no need for agents but there would be a whole lot of players getting screwed over by teams because they do not understand the fine print. Nearly all negotiated contracts are two parties trying to screw each other. When the contract is signed that means they have agreed to screw each other equally.

"If" I were the 32 owners I would change the way the league pays and go to a structured pay scale. Let them make the lions share in endorsements, which would also clean the league up a good bit. You wouldn't have someone making 40 million and running his mouth in public because the company he would be endorsing would keep a lid on his arse.

EG - A starting QB would make 10m a year salary period. He gets a bonus for perfect record, playoffs, SB etc... It does away with all the over and under paid BS. Each and every position would have a price tag, and the salary would be paid out weekly per game so if the QB went to crap and got benched he would receive BU money the next week. But thats a pipe dream.

The FO has already telegraphed its punch and Jimmy will receive no more than the Franchise Tag this season.

I just cant wait for all the threads and news articles stating "The Saints and Jimmy are close to a deal".. Anyone and i mean anyone that knows the contract process knows there is either agreement or non-agreement and there is no degree of done for contracts. You can get 19 of 20 items agreed upon but the 20th kills it and there is no contract or you can have 1 of 20 done and that 1 being the most sticky and the remaining 19 items take 5 minutes.

95% of an NFL contract is standardized and cookie cutter, they just fill in the blanks _ years, _dollar amount. Its the guaranteed money and distrobution that is the sticky wicket.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

O.K, with that said, now count the people. 1 vs, how many? I personally think they are all over paid, and with the college education they all have can make their money there also when their football days are over. It use to be the rookie contracts that killed things for unproven players now its the proven monster contracts thats killing things, it just a no win but for a few. Brees is good but 100 million good., no athelete is that good.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

*In my preacher from a baptist church voice* Preach on, brother Danno!!!! Mmmmmmmhmmmmmm!!!!!! I said amen, and amen again!!!!!

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

I think you may be over thinking the anti-trust concern. Nearly all companies have pay bands for each job description they have, salary is salary.

Example: QBs pay band is (500k-1m for non starters)
(3m - 10m for starters)
Team decides where they fall in that pay band.

I wouldn't delve into a performance incentive bonus program as the whole ocean of ambiguous accountability that is the NFL as we presently know it would defiantly implode if a wrong call by a referee cost a player a bonus.

Where is the motivation? Certainly a player that will play for 10 million a year will play just as hard for 2 million a year. If not, there is the CFL or they are welcome to test the job market with their unused degree in whatever field they chose to study. Good luck pulling 6 figures with a Physical Education degree, or a Marketing degree and zero experience.

Remember.... There was a time when players played till they broke and bled for less than 100k/year.

If all fk that doesn't work there is a sizable delta between the QB pay bands, big enough to play your best or the next week when you don't start your check reflects the lower pay band.

Personally I have a freakin issue with something called "work out bonus". It's their job.

As I see it the league is responsible for healthcare and a salary within the pay-band. The onus for all other income a player wants or feels he needs falls on that player. He can go out and seek enforcements.

An 18 year old soldier has the burden of staying alive and keeping his buddies alive. These college educated 23+ year olds can't balance their own check book and manage their own urges.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

If you are going to cap how much players earn... shouldn't we also cap what the owners and league earns?

If they hit a certain threshold, the excess goes into a public fund/scholarships/etc...

I never understood why people had so many issues with how much "players" made.
I always felt that the public was closer to the level of the "players" and therefor should sympathize with the "players" more than they do to the "owners."
Seems I was wrong.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Few companies have anti-trust status, whole different set of rules...

LOL - not laughing at you, laughing at the hypocrisy of these players and their "college educations"...

They're some that truly improve themselves - applaud that and that's the way it should be; most have study hall with tutors as well as "special assistance" when taking examinations...

Then, there's the ever challenging curriculum with examples such as Urban Planning Engineering, Hotel Business Management, Sub-Continental Studies, or my personal favorite, Kinesiological Exercise Science (formerly Phys-Ed)...

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

Antitrust for the NFL centers more around collusion, conduct, and market. Antitrust in the NFL's case is why there are no games on Friday or Saturday because that would infringe on College and HS Football... College football viewership is the biggest concern.

Obviously any ideas you or I have would never float past the NFLPA unless there is hefty comp beyond salary and bonus. However, after that was done you could do away with the NFLPA.

Also, if you can cap rookies you can implement paybands.

If pay bands were implemented you put Condon back in jeans because it would severely strip his income. ;)

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

I say Smith, Thomas, Moore and Robinson. Possibly Harper and Sproles. KRob and Ingram will get a ton of playing time next year. Greer and Lewis could be a top 3 CB tandem next year. Add Bunkley to the cut list. Hicks and Jenkins have pushed him out

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

You ask if it would it hurt to let Jenkins, I say no!! But I would keep Harper. He excells in the run game. Another good CB would allow a ball-hawk to be brought in, why pay Jenkins when you can up-grade. Robbinson will be back.

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 

anti-trust status has to do with the non profit tax status the NFL has - nothing more - nothing less.

Why Does the National Football League Deserve Tax-Exempt Status?

You may not know it, but the National Football League is a nonprofit organization. It may seem absurd that a collection of teams that generated at least $9 billion in revenue last season would be given tax-exempt status, but the NFL is technically classified as a 501(c)6 organization. Here's how the IRS describes 501(c)6 tax-exempt status:

Here's how the IRS describes 501(c)6 tax-exempt status:

Section 501(c)(6) of the Internal Revenue Code provides for the exemption of business leagues, chambers of commerce, real estate boards, boards of trade and professional football leagues, which are not organized for profit and no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual.

blah blah blah

The important thing here is that we the people granted the NFL this tax exemption, even if it was decades ago (Just as we granted the leagues the anti-trust exemption for negotiating television broadcast contracts.). As a result, we can revoke that exemption if the league blacks out its fans, forces fans to pay for personal seat licenses, extorts public money from municipalities by threatening to move teams, etc.The NFL may technically be a non-profit, but it sure as hell isn't acting in the public interest.

Brian Frederick: Why Does the National Football League Deserve Tax-Exempt Status?

the part i keep harping on is

extorts public money from municipalities by threatening to move teams, etc (they do it all the time.)

this is were tax payer need to establish rights to protect there investment due to the tax money they invest into teams every year.

Now common sense will make you lao and feel like a fool when you understand the screwing the NFL gives us taxpayers. The NFL like all major corporations in America they do not pay their fair share taxes and have not been doing so since the 1960s. this is one more example of how un patriotic most of the companies are here in America. yet we let it continue and carry them on our backs.

ok off the soap box

so with that put to bed

who gets cut? any player with minimal dead cap money next year is on the hot seat. those with expiring contracts are in the fire.

Originally Posted by Danno http://blackandgold.com/bngforum/buttons/viewpost.gif

So we're about 14 over and we'll need at least 8 million for Graham, so who do you cut?

I know Loomis will likely restructure several players but this kinda gives yo a good indicator who may be asked to restructure or clean out their locker..

Approximated cap savings if cut (hopefully some restructure)...
Cap hit minus dead money = Cap savings if cut
Will Smith - 13,902,451 - 2,352,451 = 11,550,000
Darren Sproles - 4,250,000 - 750,000 = 3,500,000
Jabari Greer - 5,825,000 – 2,650,000 = 3,175,000
Pierre Thomas – 2,900,000 – 0 = 2,900,000
Lance Moore - 5,068,750 - 2,357,500 = 2,711,250
Roman Harper - 5,870,000 - 3,690,000 = 2,180,000
Mark Ingram - 2,359,875 - 973,500 = 1,386,375
Patrick Robinson - 2,804,333 - 1,446,833 = 1,357,500

Danno has a good start on the list of players on the hot seat