Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham

Mardigras9 · 02-05-2014, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

So in all likelihood the Saints would get a 2014 FRDP and a 2015 FRDP.

Still worth it, IMO. Brees could make another tight end look as good as he did Graham.

Cruize · 02-05-2014, 01:15 PM

If someone would give me a #1 this year and a #2 next, I would let Graham walk. I love his ability as a weapon. But, he can't block at all, can get shutdown and disappear against a physical defender, has had some nagging injuries, and his cap figure will be too high for the team. Drew would make the TE from Washington look just as good as Graham if not better. Seferian-Jenkins can block. Plus, he would be much cheaper for 3+ years.

blackangold · 02-05-2014, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Cruize

If someone would give me a #1 this year and a #2 next, I would let Graham walk. I love his ability as a weapon. But, he can't block at all, can get shutdown and disappear against a physical defender, has had some nagging injuries, and his cap figure will be too high for the team. Drew would make the TE from Washington look just as good as Graham if not better. Seferian-Jenkins can block. Plus, he would be much cheaper for 3+ years.

People forget we had the number 1 offense for years without Graham.

Here is what I see happening. Saints tag Graham with the 2 first rounder exclusive tag. However, we tag him as a TE and some team with cap room offers him WR money that we can't match and Graham walks. We get 2 first round picks and still have the number 1 offense in 2014.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-05-2014, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

He (Graham) is not going anywhere. I don't think any franchise is foolish enough to give up 2 #1 draft picks for the chance to negotiate with Jimmy for WR money.

Originally Posted by TheOak

The team does not have that option. Once Jimmy is offered $x from another team and the offer sheet is signed, if the Saints do not match, the Saints are awarded two first round draft picks from that team.

I think my point is still valid. By making the offer, another franchise knows going in that the price will be 2 FRDPs. I just don't think that anyone is willing to pay that high a price for Graham.

Another observation is that virtually all of the really great tight ends in the league are coupled with outstanding QBs (Graham/Brees, Gronk/Brady, Gates/Rivers, and even to some degree Gonzales/Ryan). I'm not sure that Julius Thomas has enough experience to be considered in this group and that the only exception seems to be Jordan Cameron in Cleveland. An interesting question is whether or not a team without a top flight QB would take a flyer on Graham. A second question is if Graham would be close to as productive under a QB not named Brees.

SFIAH

TheOak · 02-05-2014, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I think my point is still valid. By making the offer, another franchise knows going in that the price will be 2 FRDPs. I just don't think that anyone is willing to pay that high a price for Graham.

Another observation is that virtually all of the really great tight ends in the league are coupled with outstanding QBs (Graham/Brees, Gronk/Brady, Gates/Rivers, and even to some degree Gonzales/Ryan). I'm not sure that Julius Thomas has enough experience to be considered in this group and that the only exception seems to be Jordan Cameron in Cleveland. An interesting question is whether or not a team without a top flight QB would take a flyer on Graham. A second question is if Graham would be close to as productive under a QB not named Brees.

SFIAH

Nope... Point is not valid, the scenario has to play out. If Team x offers him 6.9m a year which is above the tag but below what he expects, the Saints would match it and keep him.

For a team like Atlanta that would love nothing more than to replace Gonzo and not have to rewrite their game plan, Jimmy Graham would be worth 2 FRDPs. Any team that gives Matt Ryan 104m and Roddy White 42m would easily give up 2 FRDPs.

Rugby Saint II · 02-05-2014, 04:35 PM

Two first round picks is tempting........we could go young and cheap. Even though it sounds awfully good I would be paying him top tight end money and keeping him at home.

Jack Vegas · 02-05-2014, 04:40 PM

I wouldn't mind letting him walk for two first-round picks, IF and only IF he went to an AFC team.

44Champs · 02-05-2014, 11:12 PM

Graham's a wide receiver as much as Bryce is a TE when he reports in as an eligible receiver. SMH. These are the damn agents trying find an angle to make more $ for themselves

44Champs · 02-06-2014, 12:00 AM

Graham's a wide receiver as much as Bryce is a TE when he reports in as an eligible receiver. SMH. These are the damn agents trying find an angle to make more $ for themselves

TheOak · 02-06-2014, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Two first round picks is tempting........we could go young and cheap. Even though it sounds awfully good I would be paying him top tight end money and keeping him at home.

Agreed based on one principle. Jimmy Graham is a known product, and 45% odds on a draft bust is not a gamble i would care to take.

I wouldn't part with Jimmy graham for Patrick Robinson, Robert Meachem, Malcolm Jenkins, and Mark Ingram... 4 of this regimes last 8 first round draft picks.

02-05-2014, 12:55 PM	#11
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Originally Posted by TheOak So in all likelihood the Saints would get a 2014 FRDP and a 2015 FRDP. Still worth it, IMO. Brees could make another tight end look as good as he did Graham. halloween 65 likes this.

02-05-2014, 01:15 PM	#12
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,457	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham If someone would give me a #1 this year and a #2 next, I would let Graham walk. I love his ability as a weapon. But, he can't block at all, can get shutdown and disappear against a physical defender, has had some nagging injuries, and his cap figure will be too high for the team. Drew would make the TE from Washington look just as good as Graham if not better. Seferian-Jenkins can block. Plus, he would be much cheaper for 3+ years.
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,457

02-05-2014, 01:22 PM	#13
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Originally Posted by Cruize If someone would give me a #1 this year and a #2 next, I would let Graham walk. I love his ability as a weapon. But, he can't block at all, can get shutdown and disappear against a physical defender, has had some nagging injuries, and his cap figure will be too high for the team. Drew would make the TE from Washington look just as good as Graham if not better. Seferian-Jenkins can block. Plus, he would be much cheaper for 3+ years. People forget we had the number 1 offense for years without Graham. Here is what I see happening. Saints tag Graham with the 2 first rounder exclusive tag. However, we tag him as a TE and some team with cap room offers him WR money that we can't match and Graham walks. We get 2 first round picks and still have the number 1 offense in 2014. MarchingOn likes this.

02-05-2014, 01:25 PM	#14
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL He (Graham) is not going anywhere. I don't think any franchise is foolish enough to give up 2 #1 draft picks for the chance to negotiate with Jimmy for WR money. Originally Posted by TheOak The team does not have that option. Once Jimmy is offered $x from another team and the offer sheet is signed, if the Saints do not match, the Saints are awarded two first round draft picks from that team. I think my point is still valid. By making the offer, another franchise knows going in that the price will be 2 FRDPs. I just don't think that anyone is willing to pay that high a price for Graham. Another observation is that virtually all of the really great tight ends in the league are coupled with outstanding QBs (Graham/Brees, Gronk/Brady, Gates/Rivers, and even to some degree Gonzales/Ryan). I'm not sure that Julius Thomas has enough experience to be considered in this group and that the only exception seems to be Jordan Cameron in Cleveland. An interesting question is whether or not a team without a top flight QB would take a flyer on Graham. A second question is if Graham would be close to as productive under a QB not named Brees. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

02-05-2014, 01:41 PM	#15
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I think my point is still valid. By making the offer, another franchise knows going in that the price will be 2 FRDPs. I just don't think that anyone is willing to pay that high a price for Graham. Another observation is that virtually all of the really great tight ends in the league are coupled with outstanding QBs (Graham/Brees, Gronk/Brady, Gates/Rivers, and even to some degree Gonzales/Ryan). I'm not sure that Julius Thomas has enough experience to be considered in this group and that the only exception seems to be Jordan Cameron in Cleveland. An interesting question is whether or not a team without a top flight QB would take a flyer on Graham. A second question is if Graham would be close to as productive under a QB not named Brees. SFIAH Nope... Point is not valid, the scenario has to play out. If Team x offers him 6.9m a year which is above the tag but below what he expects, the Saints would match it and keep him. For a team like Atlanta that would love nothing more than to replace Gonzo and not have to rewrite their game plan, Jimmy Graham would be worth 2 FRDPs. Any team that gives Matt Ryan 104m and Roddy White 42m would easily give up 2 FRDPs. MarchingOn likes this.

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02-05-2014, 04:35 PM	#16
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Two first round picks is tempting........we could go young and cheap. Even though it sounds awfully good I would be paying him top tight end money and keeping him at home.

02-05-2014, 04:40 PM	#17
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham I wouldn't mind letting him walk for two first-round picks, IF and only IF he went to an AFC team. Rugby Saint II likes this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

02-05-2014, 11:12 PM	#18
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Graham's a wide receiver as much as Bryce is a TE when he reports in as an eligible receiver. SMH. These are the damn agents trying find an angle to make more $ for themselves
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

02-06-2014, 12:00 AM	#19
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Graham's a wide receiver as much as Bryce is a TE when he reports in as an eligible receiver. SMH. These are the damn agents trying find an angle to make more $ for themselves
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

02-06-2014, 09:52 AM	#20
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Two first round picks is tempting........we could go young and cheap. Even though it sounds awfully good I would be paying him top tight end money and keeping him at home. Agreed based on one principle. Jimmy Graham is a known product, and 45% odds on a draft bust is not a gamble i would care to take. I wouldn't part with Jimmy graham for Patrick Robinson, Robert Meachem, Malcolm Jenkins, and Mark Ingram... 4 of this regimes last 8 first round draft picks.

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