Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

time to say bye bye and start looking to sign a good FA TE or draft one. Sign and trade him for a first

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

We could tag him with the non-exclusive tag, or just let him walk. He is not worth 12 mil a season. Not TE or WR is.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

You can't refuse the exclusive tag. You can refuse to sign the accompanying contract, which means you won't play for the team. But you can't sign with another team either. He would have to sit at home for the whole season without pay.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Geez. It seems that more of you would have a grasp of how contract negotiations work by now.

First of all, any figure that is leaked out to the media about a salary demand does not come from the player. It comes solely from the agent. All of this vitriol toward Graham is totally unfounded.

Secondly, every negotiation begins with an unobtainable figure being offered up by both parties. Graham's agent isn't doing his job if he does not begin with a highball number. Rest assured that Loomis will start out with a figure that is equally unreasonable on the low end.

This is only beginning and will most likely not be resolved until Loomis knows exactly what he has to work with. That cannot happen until after free agency and the rookie draft has concluded. Contracts will be needed to be restructured and decision on who will be retained and who will be cut must take place first. This will linger well into the summer months, so relax and save your venom for something more relevant.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Argh effing offseason

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

I do not agree that Houston would give up their first rounder for Graham.The need a QB and they already have Owen Daniels and Garret Graham on the roster.They have bigger needs than a new TE.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

I agree with this. There is going to be a lot of posturing from both sides. They will eventually get a reasonable deal done. I think we're all just thinking worst-case scenario.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Correct, I should have titled this thread "Jimmy Sexton demanding 12 million per season".

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

It might as well be this ...

http://techcitement.com/admin/wp-con...06/dr-evil.jpg

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Read what you quoted. "He walks home as a hold out". The player can refuse to sign the tender which is what Drew Brees did.

Brees and Grahams situations are not that different except few people wanted to let Brees go. They both had unresolved issues concerning their tag going into it. Jimmy is the TE/WR issue, and Drew had the 2nd ve 1st Tag issue.

"When tagged, players have few options. They can sign the tender, as Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver DeSean Jackson did earlier this offseason, and hope that negotiations on a new deal will continue in earnest, which, for Jackson, they did. They can sign it, take the cash and hope for the best in the next offseason. Or they can refuse to sign the tender and try to force the team's hand by holding out."
The franchise tag is a tender issue for NFL stars - ESPN

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

I would be happy with that if it were back loaded and had a lower guaranteed money. First year cap impact should be around 5-6.5 mil then we could cut/restructure in the later years when the dead money would be less detrimental (just like W.Smith).

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

let him walk...
I don't care if he leads inTD...

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

So let me get this straight - We're fortunate enough to have the best TE in the game on our team, and some people want to trade him away for a couple of draft picks that may or may not pan out?

This can't be real life.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

You couldn't be more on target. Graham is a TD machine and will get better each year. Trade him? Drop him? I don't get it.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

With what he is asking I do not see it being anything less than a Gronk contract, E.g. 8 years to stretch it out. Gronk was 55m/ stretched out over 8 years with a 8m signing bonus with a first year cap hit of 5.5m.

Adding 5m and cutting two years off that model will hurt cap..

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Well just to be fair they're also eliminating a 12 million cap hit along with him, or rather they're freeing up 12 million of cap space AND getting a couple draft picks.

So you have...

A-Jimmy at 12 million per season (although we know that number will come down)

--OR--

B-Two high draft picks, AND 12 million per season to spend on other free-agents.

An example of option B would be two 1st round picks AND OC Alex Mack AND another CB like Keenan Lewis.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Those are two draft picks that may not pan out. There's also no guarantee we get Mack or another top flight CB. We'd have to compete with other teams for those players as well.

Yeah, I will definitely choose Graham.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

We have had the #1 offense for many years before Jimmy, we will continue to have the #1 offense without him.

Jimmy may be priceless to many teams, but he is not priceless to us. We are successful because of the system. He is not worth 10mil per year to us, but I wont argue his market value is less than that.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

We would love additional modalities such as the ultimate-blocking-machine and the ultimate-show-up-at-big-games-machine to complement the TD machine.:bng:

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Exactly. I wish I would've seen the machine in the playoffs. Or against New England. Or the Jets. Or Carolina. Etc..

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

???

Graham @ NYJ: 9 recs, 116 yards, 2 TDs
Graham @ Car: 5 recs, 73 yards, 1 TD

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

And the 12m cap hit, meaning we have to cut at least 6m more in players, not resign any free agents, and cant afford to pay a practice squad or players we draft?

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

I find the idea of signing Alex Mack, a center to a 8-9 million dollar yearly contract more absurd than hypothetically paying Graham 12 million.

The big difference is that's what it's going to take to sign Mack while Graham is certainly not going to get 12 million per.

I still can't understand why people think signing Graham is going to cripple us or something... as if we're still not going to be able to sign free agents. We were in a tight cap situation last year and it didn't prevent us from signing Lewis.

This reeks of the PT thread where people started rag dolling Pierre Thomas for what he supposedly wanted the other year... and got nothing remotely close to it.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Charles Clay, Jordan Cameron, Jared Cook, Jordan Reed... They all would look great in our system. It's not just Jimmy. Drew Brees at QB, offensive mastermind calling plays, other versatile players on offense that make your job easier...
Great player but it would't be end of the world if he leaves.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Love it or hate it the Saints have already said they would pay Graham more than $9m (Gronk money). It's only logical that his agents now start at $12m. It's how negotiations work.

Saints | Willing to pay Jimmy Graham more than Rob Gronkowski - NFL Hot off the Wire

So $3m difference will get setting in between is my predication. $10.5m per season for 6 years. Saints want him. They'll figure it out.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

I believe you forgot a few games he listed there? Jimmy"Puddin" Graham is nothing more than a product of Paytons system. Prime example Meachum to the Chargers and "got paid well" and then released. Puddin not showing up in games were bad enough this year without top money, why pay top dollar to a guy when other teams know how to take him out of the game, it wasn't like he was triple teamed like a Calvin Johnson or always double teamed Vernon Davis. Teams loose players in FA each and every year(FA market) it would be no different with Graham, and as much as Brees uses him as a crutch I feel it would only help the team as a whole to let him walk.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Despite all the games Graham "disappeared in" he still had a 1000 yard season, which is something like less than 5 TEs have ever done. And Graham's already done it twice in his very young career. He is the best TE in the game, it's really not a debate. And he's not a product of Payton's system. He's a 6'7 TE with insane speed and athleticism at the position. He could put up 1K seasons wherever he goes.

There were some games this year he didn't put up the stats, but he also dealt with a lingering injury. Let's not forget he's still pretty new to the game of football. He's only played it in organized fashion for four years. He still has a lot of room to grow, which is insane to think about.

We'd be crazy to let him walk away. Thankfully our front office seems to agree with me.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

If it is 12ml you have a shot at resigning Strief and most of the money for Mack,Verner,Grimes,Davis,Talib,Shields,Thurmond.

Im not saying id like to see Jimmy gone but if the money is too high the team always comes first

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Sign him to league minimum and see if he improves. :roll:

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Let's just say that I feel infinitely more comfortable with Loomis handling this than, God forbid, any of you (or myself). As much as any of us believe we know about personnel decisions, NONE of us knows a flea pecker's worth as compared to Loomis and Payton. None of us.

Now y'all can pontificate endlessly about Graham's worth, but nothing that you or any of us says on the subject is more than meaningless chatter.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

I definitely agree that the team comes first and no one player should compromise that philosophy with the exception of a franchise quarterback. We should be fine functioning w/o Graham if the organization feels that way. We'll manufacture that offense somewhere else like we've always been able to do. With that said, my main thing is that we don't need to. We can sign Graham and still can go after another key piece. I just can't stand the fact people are harping on this 12 million dollars THAT'S NOT HAPPENING. He may not even get 10 million dollars... though I do think that's the number.

Stop acting like the some scrub because he had a bad game against Seattle. Boo frickin' hoo... we lost to the best team in the league and Graham didn't have a good game. Get over it already. He's meant a lot to our offense these past few years and is considered an elite offensive player in this league.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

Against the Jets he had 116 yards and two touchdowns, In the two games against Carolina he had 131 yards and 3 touchdowns.

And if he's being taken out of so many games, how did he end up with over 1200 yards for the season?

And if every one knows how to shut him out of games, how did he get 16 touchdowns? Which receivers can't get shut out? How many scores did they get?

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

as long as you tag him - he is it! :p whether he agrees or not to sign it is another issue all together but he is tagged and can not sign with another team without our blessing. but he can look for deals all day long BUT his azz is ours till 2015.

If we win and gets tagged as TE he is stuck. now you have a year to work things out while he plays or he sits home for a year which makes him damage goods across the NFL

If he gets the WR tag numbers you appeal asap. drag it through the mud if you can till after the draft. teams are allotted time to react to such a decision.

or see if a reasonable deal can be reach
or a trading partner found
or bend over and take for a year and start cutting/trading players to keep graham. Then watch the dead cap money explode. or maybe not
Or then again you can always let him walk and accept the comp pick.

pick your poison

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

I just don't want to see our team get wrapped up "with millions of dollars" in only a couple of players. I have no doubt that if a deal can get done, Loomis will get it done.

I just don't want us cutting our nose off despite our face.

To me, Jimmy isn't worth $12 Million a year.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

For me the question at hand is not JG's bad games, or his great games, its his utilization and how he has become the predictable crutch in regards to our receivers.

Compare our 2009 vs our 2013 seasons: (Arguably there was a lot more talent on the 2013 team)

2009
Receptions
Colston - 70
Henderson - 51
Shockey - 48
Bush - 47
Meachem - 45
P. Thomas - 39
D. Thomas - 35


2013
Receptions
Graham - 86
Thomas - 77
Colston - 75
Sproles - 71
Moore - 37
Stills -32

Its doesn't seem like a lot but it matters. I had to go down the list to 7 players in 2009 before I found one under 35 catches, in 2013 it was only 5.

In 2009 we spread the ball around a lot to our WRs, it was noted as one of our most valuable strategies. Move to 2013 and its Jimmy graham or RBs.

In 2009 we had 4 receivers over 45 receptions (3 were WR), in 2013 we have 2 receivers over 45 (1 is a WR).

So I interpret this as one of three possibilities.
1. Jimmy by default is making us too predictable and damaging our WR corps.
2. Our WR corps. is severely lacking and we are leaning on Jimmy and RBs.
3. We are Jimmy by default, with a weak corps of WRs, and Payton is using our RBs as if this were an arena league.

What ever it is it has hurt our long ball game.
20+ yard passing attempts
2009- 62 att / Comp% 58.7
2013 - 77 att / Comp% 40.3


Some would interpret the Comp% fall off as Drews accuracy but the trend doesnt support a major fall off in his arm strength or accuracy, it supports a steady decline in our receiving corps ability to catch the ball.
*Unless you are of the mind that Drew's arm was weaker and less accurate in 2007.

Drews long ball completion % 2007-2013

2007 - 33.3%
2008 - 45.3 %
2009 - 58.7%
2010 - 52.1%
2011 - 52.1%
2012 - 48.8%
2013 - 40.3%

We lost Meachem and Henderson in 2011-2012, our WR corps. has never regained the deep thread that it had mostly due to Meachem not being as good as Henderson and Joe Morgan never being on the field (he was the replacement deep threat).

I know I sort of went way off into left field with WRs in a TE thread but I will bring it back now. Leaning on Jimmy Graham has taken the focus off of our WR corps and it has hurt our offense by making us more predictable and Sean payton became lax in the development and building of our WRs... A huge part of why we won a SB.:bng:

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

He did indeed ... it's just that he needs to be elite against elite teams as well, such as Seattle or NE. They provided the blueprint on how to defend him after he was in beastmode early in the year. Tony Gonzales still found ways to get open and block against these same teams. Hopefully Grambeaux will figure it out this year after he irons out his contract.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

No kidding. That would ruin this franchise for the next 5-10 years. We already have so much money tied up in Drew. That would be 2 players that take up what, almost 50% of our cap space?? Lets get a pick or sign and trade. This years draft is the deepest ever in regards to WR we can get someone just as good in the draft with the extra pick to take his place. That or a TE that can actually block sometimes.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

He isn't worth $12 million a year. Everyone, including Jimmy and his agent know that. No team will pay that kind of money. So that point is moot.

The real question is what is he worth?

1) The TE tag is somewhere are $6.5 million a year right?

2) Gronk's contract is 8 years $55 million. Technically that's about $7 million a year. But only $13 million of it is guaranteed up to 2016 (with the addition of a $10 million option bonus if the Pats decide to take him on until 2020).

3) The WR tag is $11.5 million per year.

It's pretty easy to argue that JG is the best TE in the game. But he isn't a WR. So it would seem reasonable that something that's better than Gronk's contract, but less than a premier WR contract (Megatron, Fitzgerald) is in order.

JG is going to get tagged because neither side is going to cave to the other this early in the game. So honestly until the tag, the grievance, and the appeal are all done, JG's value cannot yet be determined. It's likely that if he's tagged as TE that the average salary will be closer to $8 million. If the WR tag stands after appeal, then that's an entirely different discussion.

SFIAH

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

We played Carolina twice. You got me with the Jets though.

Thing is, I like Jimmy Graham. I like what he has the potential to be. But I don't see a TE ever deserving $12 million a year. I don't even see a receiver outside of Megatron deserving that.

Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?
 

I completely agree. I'd sooner give Pierre Thomas 12 million dollars a year!

Jimmy Graham and his delusional agent are making me pissed. I hope he gets tagged as a tight end. The Saints are offering to make Jimmy the highest paid tight end in the league and he has rejected that offer. I'm tired of him.