PT not going after all?

WhoDat!656 · 03-09-2014, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by nycsaintfan

I'm more than likely in the minority on this but I think it is time to make some moves with the roster. If we were going to keep a veteran running back around it would have been Sproles. If the idea is to improve our running game, and move to a power running game then Ingram and Robinson are the guys to go with. As much as I like Thomas, and what he has done for the organization, 3.7 yards a rush is 3.7 yards a rush. It just won't cut it moving forward.

3.7 ypc behind an O-line that was always one snap away from getting Brees killed is good in my book.

Once the O-line is stabilized, PT will be back to cruisin'.

rezburna · 03-09-2014, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

3.7 ypc behind an O-line that was always one snap away from getting Brees killed is good in my book.

Once the O-line is stabilized, PT will be back to cruisin'.

Not necessarily. PT is 30 now right? Bad time for running backs.

Euphoria · 03-09-2014, 06:28 PM

Ingram also has to pick up his game though. I think party why PT isn't going is not to put all our eggs in one basket.

Chances are they are going to find a diamond in the rough that they can just plug in... like they have time and time again it seems.

WhoDatFan26 · 03-09-2014, 09:36 PM

Not likely. Both Ingram and Robinson averaged a higher yards per carry on far fewer carries. I love Pierre but his time has come and gone. It happens to everyone.

burningmetal · 03-10-2014, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDatFan26

Not likely. Both Ingram and Robinson averaged a higher yards per carry on far fewer carries. I love Pierre but his time has come and gone. It happens to everyone.

Saying that Robinson and Ingram averaged more yards per carry on far fewer carries kind of works against your own opinion of Thomas. Because that's just it... Those two guys had far fewer carries. I do very much like what Robinson brings to the table, and Ingram finally had a few good moments (still need to see more consistency out of him) but you don't know how they would have done with more carries.

Those guys tended to get more carries when games were out of hand and we had worn down the opposition, whereas Thomas was the guy being counted on to do the aforementioned wearing down. Plus he's a great receiver as opposed to Ingram being very one dimensional, and I frankly don't know yet what kind of receiver Robinson is.

PT is still very valuable at a cheap cost, in my opinion.

blackangold · 03-10-2014, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Saying that Robinson and Ingram averaged more yards per carry on far fewer carries kind of works against your own opinion of Thomas. Because that's just it... Those two guys had far fewer carries. I do very much like what Robinson brings to the table, and Ingram finally had a few good moments (still need to see more consistency out of him) but you don't know how they would have done with more carries.

Those guys tended to get more carries when games were out of hand and we had worn down the opposition, whereas Thomas was the guy being counted on to do the aforementioned wearing down. Plus he's a great receiver as opposed to Ingram being very one dimensional, and I frankly don't know yet what kind of receiver Robinson is.

PT is still very valuable at a cheap cost, in my opinion.

Our running game only just got going when PT stopped getting the ball. i love PT just as much as the next guy but he lost a step this year. Some argue he had his best year but ill argue it was his worst. Lowest YPC and lowest YPR of his career.

Part of losing Sproles and possibly PT is a changing philosophy. I think Payton looked back on the year and realized he was too predictable and most of that centered around formations and the backs he used in them. We need to get back to a strong PA which means a strong running game which needs a back that can pound the rock. Sproles was always a key that it was a passing play and Ingram was always the key that it was a run and when PT was in you keep an eye out for the screen. Far to predictable because of the way we used our backs. Now that Sproles and PT (maybe) are gone what do you key in on?

burningmetal · 03-11-2014, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

Our running game only just got going when PT stopped getting the ball. i love PT just as much as the next guy but he lost a step this year. Some argue he had his best year but ill argue it was his worst. Lowest YPC and lowest YPR of his career.

Part of losing Sproles and possibly PT is a changing philosophy. I think Payton looked back on the year and realized he was too predictable and most of that centered around formations and the backs he used in them. We need to get back to a strong PA which means a strong running game which needs a back that can pound the rock. Sproles was always a key that it was a passing play and Ingram was always the key that it was a run and when PT was in you keep an eye out for the screen. Far to predictable because of the way we used our backs. Now that Sproles and PT (maybe) are gone what do you key in on?

My friend, if we have to get rid of every back we have because they make us predictable, then that sounds like a play calling problem. I agree that we got too predictable with Ingram and Sproles. But in Sproles' first season with us they used him in the running game very well, also, and he had an awesome all around season. They stopped doing that when our o-line starting struggling (which really is our biggest problem on offense). Even though our line was bad, it was still a mistake to call so many screen plays to him, because of the predictability. With Ingram, he just hasn't been any kind of factor in the passing game, and really doesn't fit this team because of that. Pierre has never been predictable. He's been a very good all around back.

I disagree that we started running better when we stopped giving Thomas the ball. When did we stop giving him the ball? It is my recollection that we started running the ball better when we started committing to the run game more and our line started to play better.

I don't think there is a change in philosophy going on. I think there is a youth movement going on that will hopefully allow us to better execute what Payton's philosophy has been all along. I just happen to believe that Pierre Thomas is still useful to this team.

TheOak · 03-11-2014, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

My friend, if we have to get rid of every back we have because they make us predictable, then that sounds like a play calling problem. I agree that we got too predictable with Ingram and Sproles. But in Sproles' first season with us they used him in the running game very well, also, and he had an awesome all around season. They stopped doing that when our o-line starting struggling (which really is our biggest problem on offense). Even though our line was bad, it was still a mistake to call so many screen plays to him, because of the predictability. With Ingram, he just hasn't been any kind of factor in the passing game, and really doesn't fit this team because of that. Pierre has never been predictable. He's been a very good all around back.

I disagree that we started running better when we stopped giving Thomas the ball. When did we stop giving him the ball? It is my recollection that we started running the ball better when we started committing to the run game more and our line started to play better.

I don't think there is a change in philosophy going on. I think there is a youth movement going on that will hopefully allow us to better execute what Payton's philosophy has been all along. I just happen to believe that Pierre Thomas is still useful to this team.

PT had a severe fall off in carries and yards/carry after week 11 vs Atlanta, and he fell off the map after week 14.
Pierre Thomas 2013 Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com

He didn't play in the playoffs:
2013 New Orleans Saints Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com
Eagles - We put up 185 yards @5.1 YPC
Seahawks - We put up 108 yards @ 4.15 YPC

We ran better and more consistently in the playoffs. Not saying it was all on PT, but that is where the idea is coming from.

burningmetal · 03-12-2014, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

PT had a severe fall off in carries and yards/carry after week 11 vs Atlanta, and he fell off the map after week 14.
Pierre Thomas 2013 Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com

He didn't play in the playoffs:
2013 New Orleans Saints Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com
Eagles - We put up 185 yards @5.1 YPC
Seahawks - We put up 108 yards @ 4.15 YPC

We ran better and more consistently in the playoffs. Not saying it was all on PT, but that is where the idea is coming from.

That's interesting, I didn't remember that much of a drop in carries, but I remember he started running the ball well around the midway point of the season, along with everyone else. I'm not sure what the reason would be as to why he didn't get the ball. Generally if there was a hole he was going to find it. Couldn't always say the same about the rest of our backs.

Nevertheless, I still like his versatility as a rotational guy. I'd hold onto him going into camp, at least, and if someone else emerges as a quality third back, then maybe release PT if he happens to struggle.

03-09-2014, 05:00 PM	#1
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,086	Re: PT not going after all? Originally Posted by nycsaintfan I'm more than likely in the minority on this but I think it is time to make some moves with the roster. If we were going to keep a veteran running back around it would have been Sproles. If the idea is to improve our running game, and move to a power running game then Ingram and Robinson are the guys to go with. As much as I like Thomas, and what he has done for the organization, 3.7 yards a rush is 3.7 yards a rush. It just won't cut it moving forward. 3.7 ypc behind an O-line that was always one snap away from getting Brees killed is good in my book. Once the O-line is stabilized, PT will be back to cruisin'. CoreyO likes this.

03-09-2014, 05:53 PM	#2
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,075	Re: PT not going after all? Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 3.7 ypc behind an O-line that was always one snap away from getting Brees killed is good in my book. Once the O-line is stabilized, PT will be back to cruisin'. Not necessarily. PT is 30 now right? Bad time for running backs.

03-09-2014, 06:28 PM	#3
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: PT not going after all? Ingram also has to pick up his game though. I think party why PT isn't going is not to put all our eggs in one basket. Chances are they are going to find a diamond in the rough that they can just plug in... like they have time and time again it seems.

03-09-2014, 09:36 PM	#4
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365	Re: PT not going after all? Not likely. Both Ingram and Robinson averaged a higher yards per carry on far fewer carries. I love Pierre but his time has come and gone. It happens to everyone. Cruize likes this.
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365

03-10-2014, 08:55 AM	#5
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: PT not going after all? Originally Posted by WhoDatFan26 Not likely. Both Ingram and Robinson averaged a higher yards per carry on far fewer carries. I love Pierre but his time has come and gone. It happens to everyone. Saying that Robinson and Ingram averaged more yards per carry on far fewer carries kind of works against your own opinion of Thomas. Because that's just it... Those two guys had far fewer carries. I do very much like what Robinson brings to the table, and Ingram finally had a few good moments (still need to see more consistency out of him) but you don't know how they would have done with more carries. Those guys tended to get more carries when games were out of hand and we had worn down the opposition, whereas Thomas was the guy being counted on to do the aforementioned wearing down. Plus he's a great receiver as opposed to Ingram being very one dimensional, and I frankly don't know yet what kind of receiver Robinson is. PT is still very valuable at a cheap cost, in my opinion. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

03-10-2014, 12:32 PM	#6
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: PT not going after all? Originally Posted by burningmetal Saying that Robinson and Ingram averaged more yards per carry on far fewer carries kind of works against your own opinion of Thomas. Because that's just it... Those two guys had far fewer carries. I do very much like what Robinson brings to the table, and Ingram finally had a few good moments (still need to see more consistency out of him) but you don't know how they would have done with more carries. Those guys tended to get more carries when games were out of hand and we had worn down the opposition, whereas Thomas was the guy being counted on to do the aforementioned wearing down. Plus he's a great receiver as opposed to Ingram being very one dimensional, and I frankly don't know yet what kind of receiver Robinson is. PT is still very valuable at a cheap cost, in my opinion. Our running game only just got going when PT stopped getting the ball. i love PT just as much as the next guy but he lost a step this year. Some argue he had his best year but ill argue it was his worst. Lowest YPC and lowest YPR of his career. Part of losing Sproles and possibly PT is a changing philosophy. I think Payton looked back on the year and realized he was too predictable and most of that centered around formations and the backs he used in them. We need to get back to a strong PA which means a strong running game which needs a back that can pound the rock. Sproles was always a key that it was a passing play and Ingram was always the key that it was a run and when PT was in you keep an eye out for the screen. Far to predictable because of the way we used our backs. Now that Sproles and PT (maybe) are gone what do you key in on?

03-11-2014, 03:09 AM	#7
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: PT not going after all? Originally Posted by blackangold Our running game only just got going when PT stopped getting the ball. i love PT just as much as the next guy but he lost a step this year. Some argue he had his best year but ill argue it was his worst. Lowest YPC and lowest YPR of his career. Part of losing Sproles and possibly PT is a changing philosophy. I think Payton looked back on the year and realized he was too predictable and most of that centered around formations and the backs he used in them. We need to get back to a strong PA which means a strong running game which needs a back that can pound the rock. Sproles was always a key that it was a passing play and Ingram was always the key that it was a run and when PT was in you keep an eye out for the screen. Far to predictable because of the way we used our backs. Now that Sproles and PT (maybe) are gone what do you key in on? My friend, if we have to get rid of every back we have because they make us predictable, then that sounds like a play calling problem. I agree that we got too predictable with Ingram and Sproles. But in Sproles' first season with us they used him in the running game very well, also, and he had an awesome all around season. They stopped doing that when our o-line starting struggling (which really is our biggest problem on offense). Even though our line was bad, it was still a mistake to call so many screen plays to him, because of the predictability. With Ingram, he just hasn't been any kind of factor in the passing game, and really doesn't fit this team because of that. Pierre has never been predictable. He's been a very good all around back. I disagree that we started running better when we stopped giving Thomas the ball. When did we stop giving him the ball? It is my recollection that we started running the ball better when we started committing to the run game more and our line started to play better. I don't think there is a change in philosophy going on. I think there is a youth movement going on that will hopefully allow us to better execute what Payton's philosophy has been all along. I just happen to believe that Pierre Thomas is still useful to this team.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

03-11-2014, 09:03 AM	#8
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: PT not going after all? Originally Posted by burningmetal My friend, if we have to get rid of every back we have because they make us predictable, then that sounds like a play calling problem. I agree that we got too predictable with Ingram and Sproles. But in Sproles' first season with us they used him in the running game very well, also, and he had an awesome all around season. They stopped doing that when our o-line starting struggling (which really is our biggest problem on offense). Even though our line was bad, it was still a mistake to call so many screen plays to him, because of the predictability. With Ingram, he just hasn't been any kind of factor in the passing game, and really doesn't fit this team because of that. Pierre has never been predictable. He's been a very good all around back. I disagree that we started running better when we stopped giving Thomas the ball. When did we stop giving him the ball? It is my recollection that we started running the ball better when we started committing to the run game more and our line started to play better. I don't think there is a change in philosophy going on. I think there is a youth movement going on that will hopefully allow us to better execute what Payton's philosophy has been all along. I just happen to believe that Pierre Thomas is still useful to this team. PT had a severe fall off in carries and yards/carry after week 11 vs Atlanta, and he fell off the map after week 14. Pierre Thomas 2013 Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com He didn't play in the playoffs: 2013 New Orleans Saints Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com Eagles - We put up 185 yards @5.1 YPC Seahawks - We put up 108 yards @ 4.15 YPC We ran better and more consistently in the playoffs. Not saying it was all on PT, but that is where the idea is coming from.

03-12-2014, 06:45 AM	#9
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: PT not going after all? Originally Posted by TheOak PT had a severe fall off in carries and yards/carry after week 11 vs Atlanta, and he fell off the map after week 14. Pierre Thomas 2013 Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com He didn't play in the playoffs: 2013 New Orleans Saints Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com Eagles - We put up 185 yards @5.1 YPC Seahawks - We put up 108 yards @ 4.15 YPC We ran better and more consistently in the playoffs. Not saying it was all on PT, but that is where the idea is coming from. That's interesting, I didn't remember that much of a drop in carries, but I remember he started running the ball well around the midway point of the season, along with everyone else. I'm not sure what the reason would be as to why he didn't get the ball. Generally if there was a hole he was going to find it. Couldn't always say the same about the rest of our backs. Nevertheless, I still like his versatility as a rotational guy. I'd hold onto him going into camp, at least, and if someone else emerges as a quality third back, then maybe release PT if he happens to struggle.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

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