KC beat us and we still won...

Danno · 11-16-2004, 02:28 PM

I\'m not so sure about that. I thought that there was no way changes in some fashion or another wouldn\'t be made last season. I though he deserved to go the year before that. Both times the Saints proved me wrong.

I want to see the team win too - but what I want more than that is to see them CONTEND. They aren\'t contenders right now and te only way to change that is for them to lose and a coaching switch be made. Delayed gratification my friend.

If the Saints beat Denver and ATL will you believe that they have a chance at the playoffs? I bet you will. I bet lots of people will start to believe. The Dome will sell out and somehow, some way, the Saints will manage to lose to the 3-10 Panthers to knock themselves out of it. If that happens I\'m not so sure Haslett goes anywhere. Venturi maybe, but not Haslett. I don\'t want that. Just like sometimes you have to spend money to make money, I think the Saints need to lose games to be winners again.

I guess I will just never understand that mentality.

WhoDat · 11-16-2004, 02:33 PM

And I will never understand how winning one game seems more important than the long-term success of the team - so I guess we just agree to disagree.

Danno · 11-16-2004, 03:06 PM

And I will never understand how winning one game seems more important than the long-term success of the team - so I guess we just agree to disagree.

I don\'t see how winning one game hurts the long term success of the Saints. Maybe if it was absolutely no doubt that Haz/Venturi/McCarthy would remain if we finished strong then I could see your point. But winning is good, losing not so good.

But this sounds like a circular discussion.

BlackandBlue · 11-16-2004, 04:34 PM

Amen, Danno, you should have done what I did, and bailed on this one a long time ago

johnnythesaint · 11-16-2004, 05:04 PM

The crux of all the naysayers arguments hinge on getting a higher draft pick. This is magically gonna transform the team. The draft is little more than an organized crapshoot, with a plethora of touted talent failing to make the transition to pro ball. If everyone can agree that barring a SB win, there will be a bloodletting. Then we are debating moot points, why not just cheer for the guys, revel in their momentary glories, hug the goalpost with Joe, and sleep tight in the knowledge that a new regime is on the way, and their success will not be predicated by choosing 5 spots higher. Put away the ag***a , none of us are in the front office, so let\'s just be fans!!

Danno · 11-16-2004, 05:24 PM

The crux of all the naysayers arguments hinge on getting a higher draft pick. This is magically gonna transform the team. The draft is little more than an organized crapshoot, with a plethora of touted talent failing to make the transition to pro ball. If everyone can agree that barring a SB win, there will be a bloodletting. Then we are debating moot points, why not just cheer for the guys, revel in their momentary glories, hug the goalpost with Joe, and sleep tight in the knowledge that a new regime is on the way, and their success will not be predicated by choosing 5 spots higher. Put away the ag***a , none of us are in the front office, so let\'s just be fans!!

GREAT POST. ARE YOU MY LONG LOST TWIN?

And you even slipped in the A-word (again-da) very inconspicuously.

saintswhodi · 11-16-2004, 05:51 PM

If everyone can agree that barring a SB win, there will be a bloodletting

This is the point everyone CAN NOT agree on cause we have watched a year beyond what should have been the life expectancy of this regime. And Haslett has a contract for another 2 years for 6 mil and we have an owner who\'s only concern is the bottom line, not dead money on the books. If someone can show me one iota of evidence that says Haslett will be fired at the end of this year no doubt, my naysaying will end right here and now. But you can\'t. Cause deep down you all fear the same thing I do, another year of the same. So while some are \'hoping\' Haslett will be gone at the end of the year no matter the record, I want there to be no doubt at all and losses is the only way to 100% ensure that. Different means to an end.

Also. the high draft pick is an added bonus. I would like someone on here to tell me Derrick Johnson or Antrell Rolle will be a bust. Either would look good in a Saints uniform to me.

[Edited on 16/11/2004 by saintswhodi]

WhoDat · 11-16-2004, 06:14 PM

The crux of all the naysayers arguments hinge on getting a higher draft pick. This is magically gonna transform the team.

Wrong. The \"naysayers\" argument hinges on getting a NEW COACH. A high draft pick helps, but the issue is whether the Saints will do just enough to keep Haslett and/or any of his staff for just one more year... like they have the last 3 years. You\'re right Danno, this guy is your long lost brother.

LOL

WhoDat · 11-16-2004, 06:22 PM

If someone can show me one iota of evidence that says Haslett will be fired at the end of this year no doubt, my naysaying will end right here and now. But you can\'t. Cause deep down you all fear the same thing I do, another year of the same. So while some are \'hoping\' Haslett will be gone at the end of the year no matter the record, I want there to be no doubt at all and losses is the only way to 100% ensure that. Different means to an end.

Whodi, I think you\'re MY long lost brother.

This is a reat argument, and it reminds me of the arguments I heard before the 2003 season. People were absolutely positive that there was just no way the Saints could do worse than 10-6. Many people were predicting 12-4 or even 13-3.

What I KNOW is that the Saints excel most at proving Murphy\'s Law is alive and well. The worst that can happen will happen. These guys already have JH out of town. I\'ll start believing again once I KNOW that he is gone.

The worst thing that can happen IMO is for the Saints team to go 5-2 over the next 7, only lose to Denver and ATL (teams they should lose to), and end up out of the playoffs b/c some other team does what they are supposed to do and slides by the Saints based on some random tie breaking stat like fewest points allowed on grass. You know what that does? That keeps Haslett and Co. in NO next year, and that means inconsistency, squandered talent, and mediocirty. I\'m tired of that. I grew tired of that 2 years ago - I\'ve had eenough.

JKool · 11-16-2004, 08:21 PM

(1) Nice post Johnny. I agree, but Whodat is right, the main argument isn\'t about a draft pick.

(2) Who and Whodi, regardless of who may be long lost brothers, I think that you guys also hold a claim you don\'t have a lot of evidence for, namely this: if we lose out, we\'ll get a new coach. I don\'t see that that is true anymore than you think we\'re wrong for saying we\'ll get a new coach either way.

(3) Here is some evidence that Haz is gone at the end of this year. Up until our horrible start, there were plenty of people around here willing to defend him. Now there are none. This means that even the fans have lost confidence in him. This is usually one of the prime factors in the dismissal of a coach. Thus, I have provided some evidence for my view that he\'ll be gone. Sure, they\'ll be a handful of people who will begin to believe if we win out, but I don\'t think there\'ll be too many - in fact, I think that if WE can see that he\'s an idiot, so can people who follow this more closely. (Surely, Whodi, you meant \"good evidence\" not just evidence, but here is some either way.)

What say you?

11-16-2004, 02:28 PM	#41
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	KC beat us and we still won... I\'m not so sure about that. I thought that there was no way changes in some fashion or another wouldn\'t be made last season. I though he deserved to go the year before that. Both times the Saints proved me wrong. I want to see the team win too - but what I want more than that is to see them CONTEND. They aren\'t contenders right now and te only way to change that is for them to lose and a coaching switch be made. Delayed gratification my friend. If the Saints beat Denver and ATL will you believe that they have a chance at the playoffs? I bet you will. I bet lots of people will start to believe. The Dome will sell out and somehow, some way, the Saints will manage to lose to the 3-10 Panthers to knock themselves out of it. If that happens I\'m not so sure Haslett goes anywhere. Venturi maybe, but not Haslett. I don\'t want that. Just like sometimes you have to spend money to make money, I think the Saints need to lose games to be winners again. I guess I will just never understand that mentality.

11-16-2004, 02:33 PM	#42
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	KC beat us and we still won... And I will never understand how winning one game seems more important than the long-term success of the team - so I guess we just agree to disagree.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

11-16-2004, 03:06 PM	#43
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	KC beat us and we still won... And I will never understand how winning one game seems more important than the long-term success of the team - so I guess we just agree to disagree. I don\'t see how winning one game hurts the long term success of the Saints. Maybe if it was absolutely no doubt that Haz/Venturi/McCarthy would remain if we finished strong then I could see your point. But winning is good, losing not so good. But this sounds like a circular discussion.

11-16-2004, 04:34 PM	#44
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	KC beat us and we still won... Amen, Danno, you should have done what I did, and bailed on this one a long time ago

11-16-2004, 05:04 PM	#45
johnnythesaint 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 125	KC beat us and we still won... The crux of all the naysayers arguments hinge on getting a higher draft pick. This is magically gonna transform the team. The draft is little more than an organized crapshoot, with a plethora of touted talent failing to make the transition to pro ball. If everyone can agree that barring a SB win, there will be a bloodletting. Then we are debating moot points, why not just cheer for the guys, revel in their momentary glories, hug the goalpost with Joe, and sleep tight in the knowledge that a new regime is on the way, and their success will not be predicated by choosing 5 spots higher. Put away the ag***a , none of us are in the front office, so let\'s just be fans!!
johnnythesaint 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 125	Flying in from Canada to see the Dolphins game Will it be a Carnival or a Circus?

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11-16-2004, 05:24 PM	#46
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	KC beat us and we still won... The crux of all the naysayers arguments hinge on getting a higher draft pick. This is magically gonna transform the team. The draft is little more than an organized crapshoot, with a plethora of touted talent failing to make the transition to pro ball. If everyone can agree that barring a SB win, there will be a bloodletting. Then we are debating moot points, why not just cheer for the guys, revel in their momentary glories, hug the goalpost with Joe, and sleep tight in the knowledge that a new regime is on the way, and their success will not be predicated by choosing 5 spots higher. Put away the ag***a , none of us are in the front office, so let\'s just be fans!! GREAT POST. ARE YOU MY LONG LOST TWIN? And you even slipped in the A-word (again-da) very inconspicuously.

11-16-2004, 05:51 PM	#47
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	KC beat us and we still won... If everyone can agree that barring a SB win, there will be a bloodletting This is the point everyone CAN NOT agree on cause we have watched a year beyond what should have been the life expectancy of this regime. And Haslett has a contract for another 2 years for 6 mil and we have an owner who\'s only concern is the bottom line, not dead money on the books. If someone can show me one iota of evidence that says Haslett will be fired at the end of this year no doubt, my naysaying will end right here and now. But you can\'t. Cause deep down you all fear the same thing I do, another year of the same. So while some are \'hoping\' Haslett will be gone at the end of the year no matter the record, I want there to be no doubt at all and losses is the only way to 100% ensure that. Different means to an end. Also. the high draft pick is an added bonus. I would like someone on here to tell me Derrick Johnson or Antrell Rolle will be a bust. Either would look good in a Saints uniform to me. [Edited on 16/11/2004 by saintswhodi]

11-16-2004, 06:14 PM	#48
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	KC beat us and we still won... The crux of all the naysayers arguments hinge on getting a higher draft pick. This is magically gonna transform the team. Wrong. The \"naysayers\" argument hinges on getting a NEW COACH. A high draft pick helps, but the issue is whether the Saints will do just enough to keep Haslett and/or any of his staff for just one more year... like they have the last 3 years. You\'re right Danno, this guy is your long lost brother. LOL
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

11-16-2004, 06:22 PM	#49
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	KC beat us and we still won... If someone can show me one iota of evidence that says Haslett will be fired at the end of this year no doubt, my naysaying will end right here and now. But you can\'t. Cause deep down you all fear the same thing I do, another year of the same. So while some are \'hoping\' Haslett will be gone at the end of the year no matter the record, I want there to be no doubt at all and losses is the only way to 100% ensure that. Different means to an end. Whodi, I think you\'re MY long lost brother. This is a reat argument, and it reminds me of the arguments I heard before the 2003 season. People were absolutely positive that there was just no way the Saints could do worse than 10-6. Many people were predicting 12-4 or even 13-3. What I KNOW is that the Saints excel most at proving Murphy\'s Law is alive and well. The worst that can happen will happen. These guys already have JH out of town. I\'ll start believing again once I KNOW that he is gone. The worst thing that can happen IMO is for the Saints team to go 5-2 over the next 7, only lose to Denver and ATL (teams they should lose to), and end up out of the playoffs b/c some other team does what they are supposed to do and slides by the Saints based on some random tie breaking stat like fewest points allowed on grass. You know what that does? That keeps Haslett and Co. in NO next year, and that means inconsistency, squandered talent, and mediocirty. I\'m tired of that. I grew tired of that 2 years ago - I\'ve had eenough.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

11-16-2004, 08:21 PM	#50
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	KC beat us and we still won... (1) Nice post Johnny. I agree, but Whodat is right, the main argument isn\'t about a draft pick. (2) Who and Whodi, regardless of who may be long lost brothers, I think that you guys also hold a claim you don\'t have a lot of evidence for, namely this: if we lose out, we\'ll get a new coach. I don\'t see that that is true anymore than you think we\'re wrong for saying we\'ll get a new coach either way. (3) Here is some evidence that Haz is gone at the end of this year. Up until our horrible start, there were plenty of people around here willing to defend him. Now there are none. This means that even the fans have lost confidence in him. This is usually one of the prime factors in the dismissal of a coach. Thus, I have provided some evidence for my view that he\'ll be gone. Sure, they\'ll be a handful of people who will begin to believe if we win out, but I don\'t think there\'ll be too many - in fact, I think that if WE can see that he\'s an idiot, so can people who follow this more closely. (Surely, Whodi, you meant \"good evidence\" not just evidence, but here is some either way.) What say you?
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks