Saints next QB discussion

TheOak · 04-24-2014, 12:35 PM

Not here to talk about when per-say but how?

There has been tons of conversation about whether we draft one now to get time under Drew or wait until Drew is about to retire. I had a long drive the other day and i came up with some alternative approaches.

1. Is our offense a Sean Payton offense or a Drew Brees offense (Payton manning like)? E.G. Do you look for a QB that fits our offense or do you find the QB and build our offense to suit?

Now the more intriguing question.

2. What if it isn't really about the when for Sean Payton but more about the who? For me "the who" changes things a good bit. Instead of saying "this or next season is our year to draft", rather ask "who is the best QB we go after"... we ask our selves who will the "best QB for us" be over the next 3 years? He could be a freshman or sophomore right now... You decide that QB-X will be the next Saints QB because he is what we want and need and when the time comes you go after him.

Personally, I would rather draft and start the right rookie for this team than draft someone not as suited to sit under Drew for a few seasons.

Halo · 04-24-2014, 01:39 PM

I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin.

TheOak · 04-24-2014, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Halo

I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin.

Which falls inline with ignore the timing, get the right player. When the time comes and that player not on our roster gets to the draft you then decide, is he better than what you have.

You can look at the near poach of Griffin by the Rams one of two ways.

1. They wanted Griffin and we wanted to keep him.

2. They wanted our play book and we wanted to keep it.

Or a 50/50 of both.

Seer1 · 04-24-2014, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Halo

I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin.

I agree. That's why I'm scratching my head when I see folk picking QBs in the mid round mock drafts.

Danno · 04-24-2014, 01:57 PM

I'll worry about it in 3 or 4 years when Payton and/or Brees retire.

In today's NFL, you don't groom QB's for more than a year before they're ready.

If Brees retired tomorrow I'm sure Loomis and Payton could acquire a QB in the draft or via free-agency that could win us at least 8 or 9 games.

I'm convinced Payton could win with Carr, Savage, Murray, McCarron, Garoppolo, or even Mettenberger. We may not win 14, but I think we'd win 8-plus and compete for a playoff spot.

TheOak · 04-24-2014, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I'll worry about it in 3 or 4 years when Payton and/or Brees retire.

In today's NFL, you don't groom QB's for more than a year before they're ready.

If Brees retired tomorrow I'm sure Loomis and Payton could acquire a QB in the draft or via free-agency that could win us at least 8 or 9 games.

I'm convinced Payton could win with Carr, Savage, Murray, McCarron, Garoppolo, or even Mettenberger. We may not win 14, but I think we'd win 8-plus and compete for a playoff spot.

So with Sean Payton as coach the QB position is somewhat a commodity?

I am not so sure, it took Payton and Brees a few seasons to get things where they are. Sean didn't just hit the ground running for the first few seasons in NO, Brees was pretty stout before and once he arrived..

Danno · 04-24-2014, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

So with Sean Payton as coach the QB position is somewhat a commodity?

I am not so sure, it took Payton and Brees a few seasons to get things where they are. Sean didn't just hit the ground running for the first few seasons in NO, Brees was pretty stout before and once he arrived..

But Sean had to rebuild (or build) a decent team from a 3-13 Haslett mess.

We had a ton of turnover from 2005 to 2006. He has since added a lot of quality pieces to this team. Talent wise we're better than we have ever been.

Obviously there will be a dropoff without Brees, but there's also a lot of talent on both sides of the ball. If you eliminate QB from all 32 teams, we're still as talented as just about any of them.

Replace Brees with a stud rookie, or a combo of Ryan/McCown, and we're still a playoff team at least as good as Carolina, Atlanta, Tampa, Chicago, Detroit Philly, Arizona, NYG, Washington, Dallas etc.

The only teams I'd rank ahead of us would be Seattle and San Fran, and probably Green Bay.

Marlboro Man · 04-25-2014, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

So with Sean Payton as coach the QB position is somewhat a commodity?

I am not so sure, it took Payton and Brees a few seasons to get things where they are. Sean didn't just hit the ground running for the first few seasons in NO, Brees was pretty stout before and once he arrived..

Well, when Sean Payton came here, he got Brees, who was damaged goods if you recall. We didn't even know if he'd start the year. He was even on a pitch count all during the offseason, right up to the season opener. You could tell that whole year that Drew's arm strength wasn't what it should be, but got better as the year went on. Also, IIRC, we went to the NFCCG that year and lost to a rigged game by the NFL against the Bears. I'd say that is hitting the ground running pretty much. We only had one off year during the first 4 years. That's pretty substantial in my book. We've only had 2 down years in the 8 years SP has been our coach, and one of those years he wasn't even coaching the team.

TheOak · 04-25-2014, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Marlboro Man

Well, when Sean Payton came here, he got Brees, who was damaged goods if you recall. We didn't even know if he'd start the year. He was even on a pitch count all during the offseason, right up to the season opener. You could tell that whole year that Drew's arm strength wasn't what it should be, but got better as the year went on. Also, IIRC, we went to the NFCCG that year and lost to a rigged game by the NFL against the Bears. I'd say that is hitting the ground running pretty much. We only had one off year during the first 4 years. That's pretty substantial in my book. We've only had 2 down years in the 8 years SP has been our coach, and one of those years he wasn't even coaching the team.

You lost me on "rigged game " brother.

Pitch count? 554 passing attempts in 2006... More than he ever threw in San Diego and more than he threw in 2009, if Drew had played in and thrown 40 passes in Week 16 that would match what he threw in 2006.

First 4 years.. Not one "off" season
2006 10-6
2007 7-9
2008 8-8
2009 13-3

Add 2012 Which I never do but for the sake of this we had 3 off seasons in the last 8.. Thats 1 from 50/50.

So as I said, it took a few seasons before 2009 when we became consistent, and Brees coming off surgery is nearly as good as Brees before his surgery. Ever look at Brees Charger stats?

65ish % completion
2005 9th in passing yards 4th in TDs
2004 7th in TDs (15 games)

Sean Payton didn't make lemon-aid out of a lemon.

TheOak · 04-25-2014, 12:22 PM

Double post

04-24-2014, 12:35 PM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,043	Saints next QB discussion Not here to talk about when per-say but how? There has been tons of conversation about whether we draft one now to get time under Drew or wait until Drew is about to retire. I had a long drive the other day and i came up with some alternative approaches. 1. Is our offense a Sean Payton offense or a Drew Brees offense (Payton manning like)? E.G. Do you look for a QB that fits our offense or do you find the QB and build our offense to suit? Now the more intriguing question. 2. What if it isn't really about the when for Sean Payton but more about the who? For me "the who" changes things a good bit. Instead of saying "this or next season is our year to draft", rather ask "who is the best QB we go after"... we ask our selves who will the "best QB for us" be over the next 3 years? He could be a freshman or sophomore right now... You decide that QB-X will be the next Saints QB because he is what we want and need and when the time comes you go after him. Personally, I would rather draft and start the right rookie for this team than draft someone not as suited to sit under Drew for a few seasons. pumpkindriver and Sarik like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

04-24-2014, 01:39 PM	#2
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,867 Blog Entries: 45	Re: Saints next QB discussion I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin. biloxi-indian, foreverfan, jeanpierre and 2 others like this.

04-24-2014, 01:57 PM	#3
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,043	Re: Saints next QB discussion Originally Posted by Halo I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin. Which falls inline with ignore the timing, get the right player. When the time comes and that player not on our roster gets to the draft you then decide, is he better than what you have. You can look at the near poach of Griffin by the Rams one of two ways. 1. They wanted Griffin and we wanted to keep him. 2. They wanted our play book and we wanted to keep it. Or a 50/50 of both.

04-24-2014, 02:02 PM	#4
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Saints next QB discussion Originally Posted by Halo I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin. I agree. That's why I'm scratching my head when I see folk picking QBs in the mid round mock drafts.

04-24-2014, 01:57 PM	#5
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,751	Re: Saints next QB discussion I'll worry about it in 3 or 4 years when Payton and/or Brees retire. In today's NFL, you don't groom QB's for more than a year before they're ready. If Brees retired tomorrow I'm sure Loomis and Payton could acquire a QB in the draft or via free-agency that could win us at least 8 or 9 games. I'm convinced Payton could win with Carr, Savage, Murray, McCarron, Garoppolo, or even Mettenberger. We may not win 14, but I think we'd win 8-plus and compete for a playoff spot. Halo and pumpkindriver like this.

04-24-2014, 02:27 PM	#6
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,043	Re: Saints next QB discussion Originally Posted by Danno I'll worry about it in 3 or 4 years when Payton and/or Brees retire. In today's NFL, you don't groom QB's for more than a year before they're ready. If Brees retired tomorrow I'm sure Loomis and Payton could acquire a QB in the draft or via free-agency that could win us at least 8 or 9 games. I'm convinced Payton could win with Carr, Savage, Murray, McCarron, Garoppolo, or even Mettenberger. We may not win 14, but I think we'd win 8-plus and compete for a playoff spot. So with Sean Payton as coach the QB position is somewhat a commodity? I am not so sure, it took Payton and Brees a few seasons to get things where they are. Sean didn't just hit the ground running for the first few seasons in NO, Brees was pretty stout before and once he arrived..

04-24-2014, 02:58 PM	#7
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,751	Re: Saints next QB discussion Originally Posted by TheOak So with Sean Payton as coach the QB position is somewhat a commodity? I am not so sure, it took Payton and Brees a few seasons to get things where they are. Sean didn't just hit the ground running for the first few seasons in NO, Brees was pretty stout before and once he arrived.. But Sean had to rebuild (or build) a decent team from a 3-13 Haslett mess. We had a ton of turnover from 2005 to 2006. He has since added a lot of quality pieces to this team. Talent wise we're better than we have ever been. Obviously there will be a dropoff without Brees, but there's also a lot of talent on both sides of the ball. If you eliminate QB from all 32 teams, we're still as talented as just about any of them. Replace Brees with a stud rookie, or a combo of Ryan/McCown, and we're still a playoff team at least as good as Carolina, Atlanta, Tampa, Chicago, Detroit Philly, Arizona, NYG, Washington, Dallas etc. The only teams I'd rank ahead of us would be Seattle and San Fran, and probably Green Bay.

04-25-2014, 10:55 AM	#8
Marlboro Man 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,469	Re: Saints next QB discussion Originally Posted by TheOak So with Sean Payton as coach the QB position is somewhat a commodity? I am not so sure, it took Payton and Brees a few seasons to get things where they are. Sean didn't just hit the ground running for the first few seasons in NO, Brees was pretty stout before and once he arrived.. Well, when Sean Payton came here, he got Brees, who was damaged goods if you recall. We didn't even know if he'd start the year. He was even on a pitch count all during the offseason, right up to the season opener. You could tell that whole year that Drew's arm strength wasn't what it should be, but got better as the year went on. Also, IIRC, we went to the NFCCG that year and lost to a rigged game by the NFL against the Bears. I'd say that is hitting the ground running pretty much. We only had one off year during the first 4 years. That's pretty substantial in my book. We've only had 2 down years in the 8 years SP has been our coach, and one of those years he wasn't even coaching the team.

04-25-2014, 12:16 PM	#9
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,043	Re: Saints next QB discussion Originally Posted by Marlboro Man Well, when Sean Payton came here, he got Brees, who was damaged goods if you recall. We didn't even know if he'd start the year. He was even on a pitch count all during the offseason, right up to the season opener. You could tell that whole year that Drew's arm strength wasn't what it should be, but got better as the year went on. Also, IIRC, we went to the NFCCG that year and lost to a rigged game by the NFL against the Bears. I'd say that is hitting the ground running pretty much. We only had one off year during the first 4 years. That's pretty substantial in my book. We've only had 2 down years in the 8 years SP has been our coach, and one of those years he wasn't even coaching the team. You lost me on "rigged game " brother. Pitch count? 554 passing attempts in 2006... More than he ever threw in San Diego and more than he threw in 2009, if Drew had played in and thrown 40 passes in Week 16 that would match what he threw in 2006. First 4 years.. Not one "off" season 2006 10-6 2007 7-9 2008 8-8 2009 13-3 Add 2012 Which I never do but for the sake of this we had 3 off seasons in the last 8.. Thats 1 from 50/50. So as I said, it took a few seasons before 2009 when we became consistent, and Brees coming off surgery is nearly as good as Brees before his surgery. Ever look at Brees Charger stats? 65ish % completion 2005 9th in passing yards 4th in TDs 2004 7th in TDs (15 games) Sean Payton didn't make lemon-aid out of a lemon.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

04-25-2014, 12:22 PM	#10
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,043	Saints next QB discussion Double post
	Last edited by TheOak; 04-25-2014 at 06:17 PM..

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