I don't like the trade
 

I know this is not going to a popular position, but I don't like the trade up to Brandon Cooks. I have no doubt he is a great prospect and all the experts really like the pick, but in this wideout rich draft, was it really the best move for a team that is probably four players away from a Super Bowl.
As it broke yesterday we were in position to make a huge move down and get really good value for our pick, because Bridgewater fell and Minnesota and Houston both wanted him. We could have gotten the #33 and #65 picks for #27, because of Bridgewater. Then we could have gone down to #40 and gotten #98 from Minnesota for the #33 pick for them to take Carr at qb. Setting us up to get center, cb, olb, and wr.
With our cap situation, the draft is about the best way for us to fill a roster cheaply. I feel like the Saints became enamoured with a player and traded to get him. With Graham, Colston, Stills, Watson, Morgan and Toon, I don't see the immediate need, especially when you have a second year undrafted free agent protecting Drew. I just don't see it.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

You will get over it when you see this:

"Where did he go?! "

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.6079...906901&pid=1.7

"Oh, he's almost in the endzone."

http://sicollegefootball.files.wordp...pg?w=600&h=420

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Rookie starters at center, CB, wr, and OLB isn't going to win us a Super Bowl. Nor is it guaranteed the people we pick at those spots will even work out to be long term solutions. You go after the players who you believe in. Trying to fill a dire positional need with an unproven rookie is what teams in the bottom half of the draft do.

You will never be able to fill every hole on a team.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

I definitely see the immediate need for an explosive play maker like Cooks for this reason

Colston - awesome but ageing (injuries catch up with him more often)
Stills - going to be a great player but not a Number 1 WR as of yet
Morgan - constantly injured
Toon - Injured or hands of butter when he gets on the field
Graham - when he's on point, he's unstoppable, when defenders get physical he doesn't want to know
Watson - solid depth guy but is ageing
Meachem - has games where he has two massive plays, then disappears for weeks

We need a guy like cooks to inject some play making ability and some explosiveness to our offense as its been slowly degrading since 2012

Re: I don't like the trade
 

So you're saying that any rookie coming in is not going to be an impact player because he is inexperienced? Then by your reasoning Brandon Cooks is not going to do anything either.
I'm warning you if we don't do something about the offensive line, we are going nowhere. You cannot hope to go through a season without an injury on the o-line. So not only do have to have five good starters, but at least two if not three backups.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

I'm sorry. This guy is Steve Smith with character, and he's worth every bit of that THIRD rounder we gave up to get him. He solves multiple issues and will keep us dynamic for years to come. I would have been happy with other players, and I could have been happy staying put or trading back too, but this was yet another excellent move by our FO. Period.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

The absence of a 2014 3rd round pick is gonna cost us a Superbowl?

You are assuming way way too much on the trade-down scenarios.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Sean will address any need we have on O line-trust me. We have the oldest offense in the NFL. We need young playmakers. The only defensive players I would have traded up for or picked in our spot is Clowney,Gilbert,Mack,orMosley. An explosive wr was a good choice and I doubt he would have made it to 27.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

As far as the 3rd rounder....weve went 2 drafts in a row w/o both seconds and a first and came out just fine. I aint sweatin it. Sean got this....relax.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Agreed, and it was rumored that Green Bay wanted him at 21, and Carolina could have easily jumped us for him if we just stayed put.

Way too many variables for any kind of accurate hindsight.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

That's not what I said. You're assuming way too much. We could have stayed at 27 and took a center. But us taking position of need doesn't make it a good pick. The Vikings needed a linebacker, but I wouldn't have taken dude at 8 regardless. Not to mention receiver was a position of need anyway. We took a chance on a guy we believe in. Nothing wrong with that.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

You had the #4 ranked defense of young talent, and an aging, slow offense that sputtered and stalled when it needed an explosive play. What's the solution to fix this? The last thing you want to do is draft a fast explosive playmaker, I guess.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

You just don't get it. I'm saying it was a bad pick. I'm saying it was not a pick to get any closer to a Super Bowl. As for 3rd picks making a Super Bowl:
Joe Montana
Dan Fouts
Aneas Williams
Jason Witten
Jimmy Graham
Brian Westbrook
Jeremiah Trotter
All third round picks off the top of my head. My point was also not just the third rounder we gave away, but the picks we lost by not moving down to allow someone to draft Bridgewater or Carr at 27. We could have picked up at least another 3rd, maybe a two 3rds and gotten the center/guard we desperately need. If Drew goes down, we go down.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Do you guys even read the posts you reply to? I didn't say anything about drafting anyone at 27. I said we should have traded down and taken center and picked up extra picks. There are tons more wr in this draft. Lee is still on the board. We didn't need to trade up to get a great wr. I do believe one of the best wr in 2006 draft was taken in the 7th round. What I am saying is historically only one or two centers in every draft make it in the NFL and in this one I think there is only two and we need one of them. With extra picks we could have manuevered in the second round to get what we needed. I am convinced we needed to move down not up.
By the way I took heat when I harpooned the Sullivan trade, the Wiliams trade, and the Ellis trade. In fact when I said the Williams trade was laughable I was kicked off one of the Saints Fan Sites for being a false fan just trying to cause trouble. I never did get an apology for being right on that one.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Im sorry.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

He's a Saint now, so I love him:heart:

Re: I don't like the trade
 

I totally understand your point gumbeauxx but I also see why they did it. Especially now that I have researched him and know who and what he is. I too was of the opinion, Hey! Don't we have other needs? Theres plenty of WR's left we can get in the 3rd. But after learning about the kid, I see that it was a great move. This kid is one we just couldn't pass up.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

The question is how do you get the ball to Brandon Cooks when Drew is going to be either on his butt or running for his life? I know two things about football.
1. If you don't control the line of scrimmage all the skill players in the world mean nothing.
2. Great quarterbacks are nothing without an offensive line. Remember Archie Manning.
You cannot depend on an undrafted free agent center without a single nfl start to be your only option at center and right now that is exactly what the Saints are depending on.
I made three bold predictions last year that were totally laughed at. I predicted Atlanta and Houston would collapse. I saw the signs during the playoffs the year before.
I saw the same signs in the Saints against Seattle. They showed two weaknesses. One they addressed during free agency on defense and the other they did not address and still have not addressed. The offensive line is not good enough to win more than seven games.
I'll make another bold prediction, if the Saints don't address the offensive line soon Drew Brees will not make it to the eighth game this season. Without him the Saints are an average team at best.
So you guys can be all giddy about a wr that can't protect the qb a bit. But I'm warning you the Saints are in for a collapse if they keep putting their head in the sand. the offensive line gave up almost 2 sacks a game last this season. This line will give up more.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

i hated the trade!

BUT you knew deep down this was a player SP would love to have as his new play toy. My gut saw this early on. so be it he is this year version of Reggie. so i can accept it.

Now for the biggest BUT the cards with 27th got the player I wanted. The biggest fastest and a turn over machine in Buccanon.

The saints defense would be so much better with him at SS back there in a 3 safety set, then add in the CBIn the long run i think this was the better move. Bucannon has all the traits the made me so swishy washy on the Vacarro pick. hard hitter big speed and hands. in a 3 safety set the saints would have been scary, oh well we missed out on the best safety in the draft at 27.

I can not bless the trade but i know SP is a child that loves his toys! as the offense goes so do the saints. you know SP is drawing plays up on a napkin as we speak.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Love the player, hate the trade. Cooks would have been there at 27, and the draft itself shows that. I too want some O-Linemen. Notice I said linemen, as in more than 1. The Saints however do an EXCELLENT job with O-Linemen in the later rounds like 4th through 6th rounds and I fully expect them to do so in this draft. I'm looking for Stork in the 5th as well as a T. I just wish they hadn't gotten scared and wind up giving away our LB pick in the 3rd.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

I don't think you can say cooks would have been there at 27, for example - odell beckham was expected to go high teens - low 20's, he got drafted number 12! The only thing the draft proves is its an imperfect process, marques colston is proof of that.
Anything could have happened - any team (especially the panthers) could have jumped infront of us to pick him

I trust mike mayock when it comes to the draft and he seems to believe trading up for cooks was the correct thing to do and SP and loomis know what they are doing,

Re: I don't like the trade
 

your right all odds are he would have been gone. sp wanted his toy and he got it. to get it it would cost us. so be it. now lets watch sp play with our new toy we bought for him. this should be fun to watch no matter how you feel about the trade. i just hope he does not break it

I don't like the trade
 

You are aware that the limit is 53? Our roster is full.... Now. So, what we are trying to do is get better at/in spots.. That requires better, not more.

We are at 65 on the depth chart now..... What's the point of picking 12 in the draft if you can't keep them?

You mentioned the cap and rightfully so, cutting sometimes brings dead money.

When you are 1 play maker away from having that lethality we used to have you go get him..... 4 "almost" like him isn't as dangerous as 1 him.

Also, with all due respect, Morgan and Toon need to be left out of the conversation.... Both you and I together are only 14 receptions in the NFL from tying them.

Toon has had very bad hands and the same people wanting to get rid of Ivory because he couldn't stay healthy are up on Morgan who can't even stay in uniform. I think Ivory had as many injuries as Morgan has had total plays.

The draft, the roster, and the salary cap are a balancing act.... They are not independent.

So you trade down from 27 and get 3 WR all of which turn out to not be as good as Cooks. Did you get better for 2014? No
You grab 3 OLinemen that don't beat out what we have now, did you get better? No

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Agree 100%, with Cooks on board Morgan should be expendable.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

I don't mind the trade at all.

I was all for a trade back but you can't wait around to see how things play out. Hindsight is 20\20. When they made the trade and pick I support it. I think he is a great player and worth the trade up.

If you target a player that you really want... YOU GO GET HIM.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

After watching what Sean and Mickey did the past two years with this team,I dont question their decisions. They may not be perfect,but I have total respect and trust in what they do or dont do. I would have been fine with whatever they did in the first round. These guys know what they're doing. We only have limited insight and knowledge when it comes to evaluating prospects and draft moves. Thats why good GM's and coaches are so important to an organizations sucess.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Get over it!

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Re: I don't like the trade
 

usual the case isn't it. for once in the mickey and SP erea i would love to see the saints walk away from a draft with picks in our back pocket for the following year. this was the draft to do in with out a doubt. but oh well i am use to it.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Normally the teams that walk away with picks in their pocket for following years are typically - jags, raiders type teams, ones that are rebuilding over years

we are in a win now mentality

Re: I don't like the trade
 

The Patriots are the best by far at stock piling picks. They are always in win now mode. San Francisco has done a good of the same lately. As bad as the Saints have been in the early rounds and as good as they have been in the mid to late rounds following the Patriots formula seems to make sense. I'm not big on trading up or back unless the players available don't have value that matches the slot you're picking in.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Here is why it is a good trade......most other positions fill 1 role, especially center. Cooks fills a couple positions of need. WR opposite Colston, return man, Scat back. Those positions were lost when Moore and Sproles were let go and now we have 1 player that can fill it instead of 2 or 3. As someone stated a roster is 53 players so the more versatile players are a better fit especially with this team. Also, he would not have been there at 27 because Philadelphia wanted him to replace Desean jackson.

With all that said, if the Saints would have done what you wanted them to do, who are your picks at those selections? I am not trying to be contrarian. I want to know who you would have wanted with those 3 extra picks?

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Agreed, the draft is loaded with JAGS, a Bill Parcells term for "just a guy". A lot of picks helps teams that are building. We aren't a team that's building, we're a team re-loading.

We identified a guy that we think is a real difference maker, not "just a guy" to fill a hole somewhere.

If we had 12 picks I'd estimate 6 wouldn't even make this team.

I understand the quantity over quality strategy too, and its a solid strategy too.

I love the pick, and losing a 3rd rounder isn't much of a price to pay for a guy we think will be a star.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Hind sight brother, it's crystal clear 5 years later. You've not once been high on a player pre-draft and 4 years later he was no longer in the NFL? Sean and Loomis have brought us the best 8 years of Saints football in history. There is no consistent perfection on the NFL, if there is I challenge you to point it out.

Shockey played his part in a Super Bowl win.

Re: I don't like the trade
 

Call me crazy, but for some unknown reason I have this sneaking suspicion that Mickey Loomis and Sean Payton know a tad bit more about NFL player personnel decisions than our new friend Gumbeauxx and our old friend Jean-Pierre combined.

If Payton and Loomis feel that an undrafted free agent lineman can assume the duties sufficiently at center then I trust them. I suspect that they may have spent a few more minutes observing his progress up close and personal than our two cronies. Or perhaps, Loomis and Payton may have other ideas about handling the center position in mind which they have yet to approach our local forum experts for their valuable input.

I understand that the team of Loomis and Payton are new to this NFL thingy and have only managed one measly Super Bowl win, but I feel we should give them a chance to prove themselves worthy. Not everyone can be as well-schooled in the matter of NFL player personnel decisions as some of our learned colleagues around here.

:cool:

Re: I don't like the trade
 

F**king spot on! Good post!

Re: I don't like the trade