Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

have no hate towards AB but i'm not going to go overboard and sign him off in our HOF. it won't look that good when DB gets in. he just didn't get it done after getting paid. I know we had tougher schedule after he got our first playoff victory that was awesome, still today but HOF no no jmo.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

SF, I agree with you about most things generally, but you're wearing rose colored glasses when you look back on AB's time here. Are you telling me you don't remember the many times that his arm went one way and the ball went the other? Without anyone even getting a hand on it. What about the way he'd take off running backwards to try to avoid pressure, only to end up sacked for a huge loss or intercepted. His decision making got worse as time went on, his pocket presence and sense for the rush disappeared.. But yeah, he did put up nice stat lines every now and then. He had a cannon after all and eventually our guys had to catch a few. Bad defense? Yep. Shoddy o line play? Yep. We were a mostly garbage team who played a mostly garbage schedule while he was here. So let's applaud him for his ability to occasionally dominate other crappy teams... I don't hate the guy. I'll always appreciate the one good year we got out of him, but that was all we got out of him. I do blame Haslett and his staff be for breaking him. I think if he'd been allowed to do the kinda things he did in year one then it could have turned out a lot better for him.. but it is what it is.

Also, you look kinda silly and a lot like the pot who called the kettle black, ranting about morons and people with their emotions on their sleeves but you got a little butt hurt when Boutte called you out on the name calling.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

Butt hurt? Not even close. I call it like it see it. Always will. Boutte may not like that. That's his choice.

Now I do get passionate on this topic, as many old-timers here will remember. The fact is that Brooks' numbers, while not worthy of the NFL HOF (and no one is suggesting that) are ABSOLUTELY worthy of ours. You and others hit on something which is key, and that is that the coaching staff tried to take a scrambler like Favre and turn him into a pocket passer, and that, probably more than anything, hurt Brooks' game.

But Lord almighty the stuff that got blamed on Aaron. Our defense can't defend a screen. It's Brooks' fault. Yes, some moron actually made that argument here. He wants a raise. He's not a team player! He runs backwards (something you mentioned). Yes, he did. Most usually running for his life because we couldn't block a d-line full of grandmothers.

Below is a link that is a good read. I'm not much on the racism angle, but I have NO DOUBT IN MY MIND that it played a part. The Brooks hate was just off the charts back then:

A Case for Aaron Brooks - Canal Street Chronicles

This one is shorter for those who don't want to invest the time:

Aaron Brooks: Saint or sinner? - NFL - Yahoo Sports

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

I don't think he was good enough for the HoF.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

I think Aaron Brooks problem was Haslett and Venturi.

But you know who the OC was for Brooks? You see why he was decent at times.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

Agreed. There was a season where we needed to win one of our remaining 3 games to make the playoffs. Haslett refused to bench a hurt Brooks and start Jake Delhomme. Brooks played like an injured QB, Saints lost all 3 games, and Brooks got flamed for it. I still put that squarely on Haslett.

BTW: We have no way of knowing what would have happened if Delhomme had started, but, at least our QB would have been healthy.

Oh, and don't hold the 3-13 post Katrina season against anyone.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

And in that last game, Brooks threw a pass to pathon. Nothing but 40 yards of green to the end zone. Pass hit him directly in the hands. He catches we score and likely win. He dropped it. We lose. And all the morons scream even louder for Brooks' head.

It...never...stopped.

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Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

I think there is some confusion here. Brooks himself stated he wanted to be known as a pocket passer and not the typical running black QB. It wasn't the Saints trying to convert him, that's what he wanted. I also think you need to look again at the defense. The defense was not awful. In 2000 Glover led the league in sacks and we had a +9 turnover ratio. The first playoff win the defense had 3 picks and 2 fumble recoveries. That playoff win was all around team win but if you feel better with AB in the Saints HOF so be it. There are others that can be labeled questionable also.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

I remember this very well too.

I think Brooks was an easy scapegoat for a couple reasons, mostly because he didn't look the part. He had the skinniest chicken legs I've ever seen and a head (with his helmet on) that looked way too big for his body. He was shy. He looked awkward on the field. He could run like a deer and had a rocket launcher for an arm. But anytime he wasn't doing one of those two things he looked like the clumsy kid at school, which made his mistakes look even worse. And he wasn't out there yelling at people and being a fiery leader.

The racism angle is overplayed. I don't people in general disliked him because they were racists (although some did). I think they disliked him because the team wasn't winning enough games and he just didn't fit the mental image of what people wanted their favorite team's QB to look like. And I actually understand that.

But good Lord, those teams had a distinct lack of talent. When I say that I don't mean a lack of speed or size, we had a whole bunch of real fast guys with size and real big guys with speed. We just didn't have a whole lot of smart players. We had routinely one of the most penalized teams in the league. O-line would hold and false start all game long. I won't even get into the revolving cast of buffoons he put on the o-line. Jerry Fontenot was a decent player in his twilight years and LeCharles Bentley had a pretty good rookie season. Other than that it was straight trash for 5 years.Defense was full of Malcolm Jenkins/Tebucky Jones types who never took a proper angle or wrapped up on a tackle in their lives. And no discipline or accountability either. That's all on Haslett.

I still do not understand how Haslett could've been such a good defensive coordinator yet have such a bad defense as head coach. His big ideas were to move a pass rushing DE to middle linebacker (Clemons) and to put two giant fat guys in the middle of the DL (Hand and Jackson). Continually brought in guys like Jason Craft and Fakhir Brown and tried to convince everybody "hey these guys are pretty good" well maybe they were a little better than the super-crappy guy you had in that spot last year but it still ain't exactly "good." When your best linebacker is 142-year-old Darrin Smith you have some pretty big problems.

I could go on and on but I'd just make myself mad at the sheer incompetence.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

Black QB's say that only to shed the negative connotations that come with being a black, scrambling, qb. It damn sure doesn't stop them from running. Cam Newton says he wants to be known as a pocket passer, as well as RG3, and Vick...but they keep running.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

Did he really want that, or was that just a sound bite? The whole "becoming a pocket passer" was a creation of the media. I don't think Brooks nor the coaching staff ever really wanted to make an issue of it one way or another.

The defense was not awful in 2000, but they did give up a bajillion points against the Rams which is why we almost lost that game. It was a good defense the same way as the 2009 team, give up tons of yards and points but counter it with big plays, sacks and interceptions. It certainly was not a defense on the order of what we have now, or anything approaching the Mora years. But that was the only year they were even close to being considering a good defense. Starting in 2001 they were brutally terrible and continued to be terrible until the end of Haslett's tenure.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

Brooks and Carney made it. Boom!!!!

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

Haters: Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it!

Well deserved Aaron Brooks and John Carney!

For the Brooks haters:

Aaron Brooks, John Carney elected to Saints Hall of Fame

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

I really couldn't be more pleased. It's personal satisfaction no doubt, but I feel fantastic for Aaron Brooks. He took SO MUCH CRAP - undeserved by and large. By all accounts he is a good person too. Smart guy. Took his football money and invested it.

I hope he shows up and gets inducted in front of a full dome, and I hope he flips off the crowd too...

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

I'm looking on the bright side. For a week I get to wear my Aaron Brooks jersey. I wonder if I can still find it. Lol

just go on record I think Brooks deserves it. When Mike McCarthy left, our entire team went to crap. Teams easily exploited Brooks inability to pick up the rush and his fate was sealed. Going to Oakland was the worst decision Brooks ever made simply because no quarterback was going to win in Oakland at that time.

:bng:

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

Congrats Aaron Brooks. He could throw a beautiful spiral.
First dude since 67 that could "actually" hit a receiver in stride beyond 30 yards.
All down hill after Willie Roaf vacated his blind side.
Brooks nearly got his head taken off every week after Roaf.
Jumped ship to Oakland and became their sacrificial tackling dummy.
Fumbles and bad decisions accounted, Brooks had good success with Black & Gold.
Glad to see it.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

oh god is picture smiling after a pick?

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

Gee, I didn't think a thread about Aaron Brooks would catch fire and piss people off.:rolleyes: Ten years later and we're still debating this. The Aaron Brooks debate has always divided us. It seems like you either really like the guy or you hated him.

Brooks was mobile and threw a nice ball. As saintfan said, the Saints had very little going for them during Brooks tenure.
Understand this: we had nothing to be excited about since the Dome Patrol and Brooks played a part in changing that. When you spend your life begging for just a playoff win and Brooks helped to deliver that, you're out of mind not to celebrate the man.

I never understood the disdain people had for Aaron Brooks. That said, I would hate to see AB flip everybody off.:brood:

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

^ He wouldn't because he is not that kind of a dude. A lot classier than his more famous cousin, that's for sure. Despite everything I never heard him say a bad thing about the fans. If nothing else, I think even his most adamant haters have to admit he was a person of good character.

Out of curiosity I pulled out the only game I still have from those years. At Bears in 02 in Champaign. The Saints were a debacle in the first half, muffed a kickoff, fumbled at mid-field, defense couldn't stop anybody. It was sad. But I have to say, Brooks kept his head and kept the team in the game. At this point in his career he looked like a very good NFL QB. Wouldn't be until later all the crap with his elbow and Delhomme happened and his confidence went down the toilet.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

They are still all smiles. Good for them.

Former teammates Aaron Brooks, John Carney happy to go into New Orleans Saints Hall of Fame together | NOLA.com

http://imgick.nola.com/home/nola-med...67c6d54b3b.JPG

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

Ron Zooks was our DC in 2000, why the defense was good. once Venturi came in, it was like having Spags defense out there.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

Whew... I am glad to see a positive thread for AB. After he left NO we couldn't have not one thread about anything that didn't lead to AB bashing.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

I always wanted to punch him in the face every time he smiled after a INT. With that being said he played great at times and did win our first playoff game.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

Yeah, I guess he deserves the honor for the good part of his era here.

For myself, and probably others too, my disgust with AB was knowing he could do better. We saw it. And then it went away. He went from really good to really bad with little in between. AB & Hazmat are the reason I gave up my season tickets after the 2004 season. I couldn't justify spending $100's every homegame for another season watching Brooks fail at being something he wasn't; a pocket QB. I could do that at home and get a lot drunker and spend a lot less.
Meanwhile, a future Pro-Bowl QB was standing on the sidelines with his helmet in his hand while Hazmat had a Wafflehouse menu stuffed down the front of his pants with a bewildered look on his face. Those were frustrating times for a Saints fan.
AB, you deserve to be in this fraternity, if for nothing else but to remind us of just how fortunate we are now.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

My post from the day...this is a repeat.

We got this QB from the Packers
who smiled as he threw to linebackers.
He thought it was so funny
that they paid him so much money
even though he had so many detractors.

Considering it is the Saints...I say OK.

Re: AB in Saints HoF
 

His stats , ok.
His time with Saints, ok.
Saints Hall of Fame, ok.
Brooks. TD-123. Int. -92. 78.5 % rating.

This is a team thing for fans. I don't see all of the big disapproval of AB or seriousness of it.

What makes a good coaching staff, qb, team overall is really just a having everything all lind up up at some point.
Many good coaching staffs don't have great seasons.
Many good qb's don't. It is really a timing, just the right mix at the right time thing of everything.

I have said a few times and I will say I am sorry to everyone here, but Saints never had a qb until Brees.
Manning is the city favorite and has a special place for Saints fans. He was an ok qb. Just ok.

Stabler was ok. We had him on his down years. the 1980's were exciting and winning , well for us anyway, LOL! Yes, I know many don't like this, but Bobby Cut Off, LA Hebert was just ok. He had a super defense to carry the offense which was ok. There was a great place kicker who carried the team for points.
Hebert. TD-135. Int 124 .78% rating.

All of the Saints qb's could be in the Saints HofF except for Richard Todd. I could never understand the Richard Todd trade.

Back up qb, John running out of the pocket Fourcade was ok. His then girlfreind died of a disease and it was really sad so ,yeah, you could put him in the SaintsHofF too. He was from LA and that is what we seemed to like first for a qb. Then there was the big Delhomme push. Playing ability was second. Being from LA was first. Small mindness on us fans. These two reasons, emotional ones, well you could put Fourcade in SHF too.

Brees and the coaching staff and other players were all just the right mix. Everything just all lined up the Saints these past years .

It will not always be this way either. It may and I sure hope will come back around too after the Coach Sean years.