Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

The whole world is built on hypocritical **** and this is the battle you want to fight? Everything is situational and contextual. This **** ain't black and white, no pun intended. Life is dynamic. Now personally, I use the n word all day everyday and I don't care who else uses it. You can say whatever you want, but if you piss somebody off and get shot or beat up I don't want to hear how messed up it is. This **** isn't a hard concept to understand, but people want to make it an argument and discussion. It's nothing to discuss. It's nothing to talk about. The majority of blacks are uncomfortable with white people using the word. Point blank period. If the Native Americans don't like the use of Redskin, change the ****. We may all be human but it definitely doesn't work like that in the real world. Never has.

In a nutshell you're telling an entire sub group of people what they should and shouldn't be offended by. I'm offended if you call me an ass hole but if my brother does I don't care. He's my brother. If my friend does I don't care. He's my friend. So quit pretending like the n word is the only word that works like this. You know exactly why black people are sensitive to white people using the word.

Redskins need to change the name. Point blank.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

I don't think anybody tries to own slavery or point to slavery as the problem. People would have been over slavery after that generation died off if we didn't have to have a Civil Rights movement just 50 years ago in order to get equality, or if there still wasn't subtle **** going on to this day. Anybody who still points to slavery is reaching, even if it really wasn't as long ago as people think.

As far as the Africans prospering off slaves, no historical basis behind that. None whatsoever. Europeans would pock a side in the war between two tribes, give them guns and supplies, then when one side one and took prisoners of war they would then trade those prisoners for more guns and supplies. Nothing like the way people try to portray it. The Europeans were raiding African villages and taking slaves for years. Europe started the craze. America followed suit. I hate that scapegoat.

And honestly, blacks are the only ones who don't have any ties to their original ancestry. I don't know what African tribe my people came from. That's lost. To me, Irish, French, English, German, whatever, white is white. Black is black. And Oriental is oriental. I'm creole. I've got French and Indian ancestry. I'm neither. I cant go to France without a passport, and I can't get grant money to build a casino down here on the coast that isn't on water. My homeland is New Orleans, Louisiana. I go back there and they'll tell me I'm black just like my birth certificate says. American sub divides me just fine.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

You are a picture perfect example of what I'm talking about. YOU are a hypocrite. YOU think you can say whatever you want but others can't. Now if I call you any name and I clearly have anger in my tone, and it's obvious that I'm making an attack on you, then you have a reason to be offended. But a team naming themselves redskins is just a name. They're not called the "Red Skinned Savages" are they? There is no attack being made. Yet you have a group of people who have decided this is offensive. I say too bad. And if YOU are uncomfortable by a word, then stop encouraging it. Anybody can call you any kind of offensive name. And the same goes for you toward others. So if you don't like the "N word", fine. Go have it outlawed. But you're going to need to outlaw all the others and be prepared to stop using them yourself. What's my point? You're words are no better than anyone else's. But you think you deserve special consideration, and for what? For what reason do you deserve this? I don't hate anyone. I hate a lot of things that some people stand for, but I don't hate people. I don't call people things that I think will hurt them. But when I hear the whining of some people about the very things that they, themselves, do and say everyday, it makes my blood boil.

And by the way, the world is not built on hypocrisy. But it is most certainly being destroyed by it. Selfish people... People such as yourself, who think everything is cause for a fight, that the whole world is against you and you have to be offended by everything. But you don't know what other people go through in all corners of the world. You don't know because you don't care. You don't know the struggles I've been through or my siblings or parents, or any of my ancestors. I don't expect you to. You're not responsible for any of us. I don't need your pity. I don't need my own pity. I just deal with life and move on. That's what a reasonable person does.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

excellent post. but this is the same point i had with my history prof. first no scapegoat point is in tended. history is always has a few versions of the same topic as we all know. In this case i had to read actual slave traders journals, manuscripts and company shipping ledgers to find out more about the topic. in the beginning it was simple and it went as i stated. but as demand increased so did the nasty nature of profiteering. much the same as it is today so not much has change in that ideology just the victims. once greed gets a hold of anything those people making the profit turn a blind eye to what the costs really are. those are the ones becuase of their wealth get off Scott free of responsibility. hmmm scott free need to look at that term.

my intent was not to slough off blame or minimize the horror of the business at all. the point was simple blame does not rest on a persons color as is the case today. The world as a whole is to blame and the world as a whole has been a victim of this horrifying crime. Some parts of world still are. as i stated the real criminals are the ones that made the big bucks and yet they seem to go unmentioned in history. money can buy you everything.

example here is, being mostly irish myself, i can a testify to the fact that irish sold and killed off fellow irish in much the same was as the British watched and profited till the brits got greedy and wanted more. then it got worse. now even today i still get a bit stand offish when i am offered a black and tan on st patties day. most people do not understand what exactly that phrase really is all about. but in no way do I go ballistic over it when a British person even mentions it. it is a drink that serves as a reminder and minimizes at the same time the horrors surrounding that time period in Irish history. It pretty much sealed the fate of the country till revolution struck the south of Ireland. But i do not fly off the handle and beat a drum over it. Mick is not the greatest historical term for an irsh person either.

Question why is it can travel anywhere in the world were African slaves were bought and sold and use the word and get no response what so ever?

Why is America held captive to such a blatant form of discrimination when it appears the rest of the world has moved on?

the civil right thing just justifies my view of the hypocrisy of history and the civil war. they removed the shackles but they remained enslaved. without the war the Irish and Italians would have remained the cheap labor and dispensable work force of this country. free slaves took over most of these jobs and were not treated a whole lot better. economic slavery and work camps we not that great of a step forward but it was a start. since carpetbagger's basically stole the 60 acres and the mule from the freed slaves. which in turned sold the land off to same industrial giants that put the slave to work in these horrid factories.

Take a honest look at our countries history and see what the world general views us as. It leaves a bad taste in their mouth about the things we have done. They are not innocent but at least they stand up and admit to what they have done, well for the most part and do not candy coat the negative aspects as much as we do.

I love our country and their are very few place in the world i would live besides here but we have a mess right now and many of those issue i place blame with congress, the president, lobbyist and lawyers from the past 50 years or more. opppsss lawyers hold all of those positions so sorry for repeating myself. they love us dwelling on the past because it keeps us from looking forward and seeing what they are doing to this country. they are the reason these things will not be settled. they keep it alive and feed it.

so back to the issue.

why do some Indians hate any association of their culture related to any ethnic culture in the US? i think it is plan as day. The Europe/U.S. invasion of the Americas resulted in them pulling off probably the greatest ethnic cleansing the world has ever seen. yet history does not portray it as such here in this country.

still to today they are the only minority that has to prove their blood line because the US still refuses to honor original treaties they broke and replaced with monetary cash offers. which in fact is still sitting there collecting interest waiting to be received. thus if you are not a certain percentage you loose your right to make a claim. that is the tip of the iceberg. pretty big tip i would have to say.

If any nationality in this country deserves to raise an uproar it is them.

Now if the media which controls (or is "controlled by" depends on how you look at it) the government would step back and stop singling out one race for preferential treatment then we as a society may just find a way to move on and become closer to being a more unified country. then we might truly get some where. I truly believe the flames of bigotry are fanned by the 5 companies that control 99% of our national media.

Which IMO is just what the controlling interests in this country want. nothing would strike fear into them more than a people untied all turning out to vote, hold them accountable and taking power away from them. Conspiracy? maybe. but as long as the voters remain divided they can be conquered. or controlled once again depends how you look at it.

It is up to the youth of this country to make this change because the civil rights generation has not done that great of job of handling it. we talked a good talk and we started strong but we dropped the ball along the way and have not done a great job of finishing it off. Are we really Americans? we aint there yet. Till the desire of our people to become one and solve our isuues we will never truly see and end to this type of thinking.

ok off my soap box

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

i live in boston now and this blew me away also. they hammer the south and i always point out the bigotry here. I married a woman fresh off the boat from Italy. you should see the looks i get when we walked through the north end of town. then the looks she would get when we visit the south side.

I have to agree with there white folks are whacked. we need a lot work.

I got corrected once. Oriental is not a race it is a style. Asian is an ethnic region. even then take a subway in boston and if you want oriental food and want a specific nationality just wait till that group exsists the train. you surface surround by that groups own little village.

I take great offense to being called white. we are basically pink and when it comes to color we turn more shades than any race on the planet. :rolleyes:

we have a long way to go

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

I clearly said you can say whatever you want. I am not one of the black people who says you can't say the n word. And with that, you should be able to respect whatever reaction you get from me or anybody else when you do. You use it around me, I'm not trippin. I lose all respect for you, but I'm not trippin. I make it a point to not use it around people who aren't black. But it's cool, I'll be a hypocrite. But you are too. And so is everybody else in some form or fashion. So you can take it how you want. Better yet, if this is the fight you want to fight go ahead and start using it in your everyday speech. Go up to a group of blacks and try it out, and if you get hurt take it to court. Put it all on the line. You seem pretty passionate about it.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

This is why I've always liked you. I can respect a good, well thought out counter point.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

I don't disagree much of anything you just said. I like to highlight the younger generation. It's changing. All races are starting to dress alike, walk alike, talk alike, and date each other. The younger generation of black kids aren't as harsh about the use of the n word as the ones before us. I for one stopped getting mad about it by the time I hit 7 years old. It was a dumb fight to fight. And as long as it was the white teachers of Mississippi teaching me I got no pass for beating a kid up after being called a nigge(r) with obvious hate in the tone. My problem comes more with people trying to act like they don't understand why it might be a issue to blacks. The parents and grandparents of certain generations must of held a lot of secrets and told a lot of lies, because let them tell it in a place like Mississippi that was the hotbed for racism nobody was ever a part of it.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

I just wish that there were longer posts in this thread.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

Give me about 10 minutes son.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

Well this will keep on going on and on over the Redskin name. But will never, ever go away it seems!

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

Unlike the n-word, the term redskin was never meant as a derogatory term. As a matter of fact, native americans coined the term as a self-identifier to distinguish themselves from the white race. Somewhere, somehow, someone found a way to bring notoriety to the term. Probably a bored politician looking to make a name for himself.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

Why did you like my post if you clearly don't understand it?

I don't think you truly know what it means to be a hypocrite. In what way are my arguments hypocritical? I clearly said I don't call people things that I think will hurt them. I know how people are and generally know what to expect. And I am not just talking about the "N" word. I'm talking about ALL of the people who think their feelings deserve special consideration. I'm not telling you to like being called any names. I'm saying you're not the only one, and neither are Indians or mexicans or white's or whatever. Somebody says ni**er out loud in a public place and it's all over the news and people want to kill that guy. Somebody curses out a white guy and nobody cares. You know that, and I know that. Point being that I don't like being called names any more than you do, but I don't dwell on it to the point of acting like I'm the only person who's ever been wronged or that I have never said anything that I regret.

And this Redskins thing is absurd. It's a name. It's not derogatory. It's just a simple name. But these certain Indians, whoever they are, have their heads so far in the sand, they treat it like an act of war. After ALL these years, they suddenly don't like it. They're greedy. They want something. We've seen this before, yet no one wants to say the obvious, because heaven forbid we upset anyone in the name of truth.

"Oh the white man stole our land". Yeah? And I wonder how many people they killed to occupy what they call their land. Am I suggesting that the english settlers didn't do some bad things? No. But no one alive today is responsible for that. War for land was rampant all over the world for centuries. And in every case, atrocities were committed. But there were also people who were genuinely just trying to survive. People fleeing their homeland to escape brutal dictatorships. And when you left for another country in that time, you were rarely greeted with open arms. So you faught. Not every fight was with just cause, but many WERE justified.

People of all ethnicities have been enslaved throughout history. Take ancient Rome for example. The way they took common people and put them to death, usually because they were christians, and the imperial throne was 99% of the time occupied by pagans. Not only were they put to death, but they were made a sideshow, being torn apart by animals for entertainment. I'm a christian myself. Should I be offended that the ancient Coliseum hasn't been torn down? Well I'm not. I'm fascinated that it has lasted this long.

Or how about Israel? You want to talk about a people who have been persecuted? When are they NOT under attack? I don't think I need to give you a history lesson on the path Israel has been through. It's pretty well documented.

On and on I could go. But these or our ancestors. People who fled and bled for freedom, and started new civilizations all over the world. We come from these very people. Our history is not simply black and white, or red or yellow. And all of our ancestors have been persecuted.

Nobody talks about these things because it isn't fresh enough in their minds. Slavery in the united states happened. Nobody is proud of it (at least not rational people) but it happened. There is also the seldom mentioned fact that these people were sold into slavery by Africans themselves, but this post is already long enough without getting into that, so I'll just stick to the main point. After slavery was ended there was of course tremendous racial tension for many years after. But we've moved past that... Or at least some of us have. There are still those who won't let go of the past. Why? All those other people in history I mentioned... what they went through was just as real, but they got past it. The rest of the world needs to catch on and stop feeling sorry for themselves. I don't hold anyone today responsible for what people before me went through. Why should you hold it against me or my color for what people before YOU went through? I haven't done anything to anyone. I'm not perfect but I'm sure not a freaking criminal. If you can't forgive, especially when you weren't even directly involved then there's nothing I or anyone can do for you. I'm sure you've met some white guys who weren't exactly warm to you in your lifetime. But I can promise you that I've had the same experiences with certain black people. I don't take that to mean that every black person hates me. But there is a lingering back and forth going on and it is my opinion that all this media driven garbage, portraying all minorities as perpetual victims is keeping people from being able to just get over it. Keep throwing gas on the fire and what will it do? You guessed it.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

Definitely was an accidental like.

Once again, no factual basis of slaves being sold in Africa in the sense of which people like to imply. Already addressed that with hagan. Done talking about it.

Second of all, I don't really care about the persecution of Romans or Israelites or whatever other deflector you want to throw at me. Slavery didn't happen to me. I don't care about that either. The issue only remained an issue because my immediate ancestors were still treated like ****. Not some people who were dead and gone 100 years before I was even thought of. I haven't pointed at slavery for the root of anything. Yeah, it kicked off the tension. But ending it damn sure didn't stop it.

And I don't even want to hear the "we've moved past it" crap. Because anytime something like this comes up you see exactly how little we've moved passed it. People are just more conscious of hiding feelings. You can't get over some **** that still happens. Nobody is dwelling on slavery like you seem to think. Our communities were targeted. They attempted to destroy them from the inside out. The residual effects still linger. The wound is still open. But individuals like yourself tell us we're imaging things and to get over it. I can't discuss anything with you bro.

I can admit a lot of black people look for pity and play the victim all the time. I can admit there are plenty of prejudice black people in America. So it pisses me off when people pretend like they don't know why this exist. You can't get over some **** that's still happening. It's like your wife openly cheating on you for the 100 years, then you get fed up, she tells you she'll stop, and she cheats behind your back for 100 more years. And when you catch her, she tells you nothing is going on, she's changed, get over it, that was a long time ago. We're obviously dealing with it pretty damn good because we only have problems when **** along these lines happens. We're not running in your houses with hoods on hanging you and burning you on crosses in the name e of revenge. I'd like to think **** has been pretty cordial so far.


So I see exactly why Champ likens Redskins to the n word. Because you got a whole bunch of people, not just white, trying to tell another group of people what is and isn't derogatory to them.

I don't even want to get into the hypocritical, double standard game. I'm having this discussion out of annoyance. If I'm right I'm right. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but I stand behind this with a passion. You not my enemy. We just think different. I'll leave it at that.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

I think this topic has been talked to death enough. Time to move on.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

boy i have to agree some areas of the country are worse than other. i was the white boy living on the reservation in the rural upper mid west. it was not the easiest way to make friends. the first 6 months to year were lonely and at times a bit fearful to say the least. red and white would not speak a word to me outside of work. that was a real eye opener for me i have to admit and changed me forever. A small bitter taste goes a long way.

i am glad to say my kids have such a great diverse group of friends it gives me hope. i like to think i had some thing to do with it but they would never tell me if i did. freaking ball busters.

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

we might need to move this to the PC section

Re: Saints' Champ Bailey: Redskins name like N-word
 

Thread closed is sufficient. It will filter down pretty quickly.