Graham designated TE by arbitrator

07-08-2014, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Jimmy's played hurt two seasons in a row now, so i don't know why you'd say he has no heart.

As far as "alligator arms", he's scored more touchdowns than anyone in the league over the last 3 seasons. Is it just the style of how he catches the ball? if not how much more did you want him to do?

That Graham has "no (none) blocking skills" is an extreme exaggeration, he's not the best blocking TE but he's certainly not the worst.

So it's not a "he said, she said", PFF rates TEs on their ability to block.

Last season Jimmy Graham rated higher in run blocking than....

Jermichael Finley
Brandon Myers
Jim Dray
Coby Fleener
Dallas Clark
Charles Clay
Jordan Cameron
Timothy Wright
Jermaine Gresham
Antonio Gates
Tony Gonzalez
Julius Thomas
and
Ed Dickson.

Last season Jimmy Graham rated higher in pass blocking than...

Heath Miller
Brandon Myers
Brent Celek
Delanie Walker
Jordan Cameron
Ben Watson
Joseph Fauria
Sean McGrath
Kellen Winslow
Owen Daniels
Jermichael Finley
Tony Gonzalez
Zach Miller
Greg Olson
Scott Chandler
Logan Paulsen
Martellus Bennett
Jim Dray
and
Jeff Cumberland

And that's after the Saints faced 6 or 7 of the top front 7s in the league.

The season before, Jimmy Graham graded out positively in both run (27th of 62) and pass (25th of 62) blocking.

Yeah I saw that someone posted similar info on another site but didn't back it up with PFF stats. He's not a good blocker, but he's not terrible either.

I believe I read he finished 39th among all TE's in blocking last year, which was actually a down year for his career. Considering teams usually keep 3 or more TE's that puts him roughly in the middle of the pack.

He definitely has room to improve though.

Jack Vegas · 07-08-2014, 06:00 PM

It's not that Graham's blocking is really terrible. But it looks bad when we're bringing in Watson obvious running downs. Personally I would like to see more two TE sets with Watson on the line and Graham flexed out to the slot where Colston often is. That could solve a lot of the issues we have with playcalling being predictable.

Tangent but I really love the tight ends we have. I really believe if Graham wasn't here Watson would be a legit #1 TE. He's got the whole package. Josh Hill is pretty impressive too, IMO.

AsylumGuido · 07-08-2014, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Jimmy's played hurt two seasons in a row now, so i don't know why you'd say he has no heart.

As far as "alligator arms", he's scored more touchdowns than anyone in the league over the last 3 seasons. Is it just the style of how he catches the ball? if not how much more did you want him to do?

That Graham has "no (none) blocking skills" is an extreme exaggeration, he's not the best blocking TE but he's certainly not the worst.

So it's not a "he said, she said", PFF rates TEs on their ability to block.

Last season Jimmy Graham rated higher in run blocking than....

Jermichael Finley
Brandon Myers
Jim Dray
Coby Fleener
Dallas Clark
Charles Clay
Jordan Cameron
Timothy Wright
Jermaine Gresham
Antonio Gates
Tony Gonzalez
Julius Thomas
and
Ed Dickson.

Last season Jimmy Graham rated higher in pass blocking than...

Heath Miller
Brandon Myers
Brent Celek
Delanie Walker
Jordan Cameron
Ben Watson
Joseph Fauria
Sean McGrath
Kellen Winslow
Owen Daniels
Jermichael Finley
Tony Gonzalez
Zach Miller
Greg Olson
Scott Chandler
Logan Paulsen
Martellus Bennett
Jim Dray
and
Jeff Cumberland

And that's after the Saints faced 6 or 7 of the top front 7s in the league.

The season before, Jimmy Graham graded out positively in both run (27th of 62) and pass (25th of 62) blocking.

^^^^^

To all of you Graham haters. Read the above and think. Come up with the REAL reason why you hate him so much. Behind Brees he is arguably the best offensive threat on the team. Behind Brees he is arguably the best character person on the team.

The alligator arms argument is totally bogus, as is the supposed blocking issue. My thoughts are that you may have other issues with Graham, instead. And if you try to say it had to do with the negotiations this off-season then you truly have no idea of how these things work. If it is the grievance, then you have totally ignored that the whole affair was driven by the NFLPA, not Jimmy Graham.

What is the real reason?

AsylumGuido · 07-08-2014, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

It's not that Graham's blocking is really terrible. But it looks bad when we're bringing in Watson obvious running downs. Personally I would like to see more two TE sets with Watson on the line and Graham flexed out to the slot where Colston often is. That could solve a lot of the issues we have with playcalling being predictable.

Tangent but I really love the tight ends we have. I really believe if Graham wasn't here Watson would be a legit #1 TE. He's got the whole package. Josh Hill is pretty impressive too, IMO.

I agree to a point, but as good as I feel Watson is (I was totally pumped when we signed him), Graham is far and away a more valuable asset to the Saints.

AsylumGuido · 07-08-2014, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Yeah I saw that someone posted similar info on another site but didn't back it up with PFF stats. He's not a good blocker, but he's not terrible either.

I believe I read he finished 39th among all TE's in blocking last year, which was actually a down year for his career. Considering teams usually keep 3 or more TE's that puts him roughly in the middle of the pack.

He definitely has room to improve though.

He is still relatively new to the position and still great, but I agree, he still has room to approve. But those who claim he is a liability blocking or has serious issue catching the ball are delusional.

Danno · 07-08-2014, 07:25 PM

A-G, I'm not sure why so many people jump on a player, and continue to claim the same nonsense over and over again.

I'm sure I've done it a time or two so I'm not on a soapbox, I guess its just human nature.

Way too many times I see the comment "player X doesn't play the run as well as the pass" morph into "player X sucks against the run", and then morph into "player X is a total liability against the run and will be exploited every play".

Its the same thing thats happening with Graham. He's gone from "he isn't a great blocker" into "he's a total liability blocking".

I wonder why that happens so often?

AsylumGuido · 07-08-2014, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

A-G, I'm not sure why so many people jump on a player, and continue to claim the same nonsense over and over again.

I'm sure I've done it a time or two so I'm not on a soapbox, I guess its just human nature.

Way too many times I see the comment "player X doesn't play the run as well as the pass" morph into "player X sucks against the run", and then morph into "player X is a total liability against the run and will be exploited every play".

Its the same thing thats happening with Graham. He's gone from "he isn't a great blocker" into "he's a total liability blocking".

I wonder why that happens so often?

I am wondering the same thing. That's why I am trying to find out the motivation behind the hatred from people we know here. I agree that there is no reason why they should feel this way based upon facts, but there is the very real possibility that other influences such as media based (not in this case at all), peer based (possibility ... classic mob psychological tendencies do exist) or socially based (playing on economic, racial, and/or religious factors), etc.

SaintFanQ · 07-10-2014, 05:55 PM

I just want JG and the Saints organisation to get the deal done so he's a Saint for a long time to come! He's an excellent player to have on our team and has done a great job so far!

GEAUX SAINTS!!!!

Oh! Just one more thing. I have a Saints jersey with the name GRAHAM on the back of it, so he has to be a Saint for the next few years because I don't want to have to get another one for a long while yet! Saints shirts are a rare as rocking horse manure here in the UK! LOL!

AsylumGuido · 07-10-2014, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanQ

I just want JG and the Saints organisation to get the deal done so he's a Saint for a long time to come! He's an excellent player to have on our team and has done a great job so far!

GEAUX SAINTS!!!!

Oh! Just one more thing. I have a Saints jersey with the name GRAHAM on the back of it, so he has to be a Saint for the next few years because I don't want to have to get another one for a long while yet! Saints shirts are a rare as rocking horse manure here in the UK! LOL!

Do not fear. You will be wearing that jersey for years to come.

By the way, I once stepped in a pile of rocking horse manure and got a splinter in my toe.

AliJee · 07-10-2014, 10:55 PM

Was graham being taken off the field on running plays cuz he was hurt most of the season?

07-08-2014, 03:31 PM	#91
Threaded by Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Jimmy's played hurt two seasons in a row now, so i don't know why you'd say he has no heart. As far as "alligator arms", he's scored more touchdowns than anyone in the league over the last 3 seasons. Is it just the style of how he catches the ball? if not how much more did you want him to do? That Graham has "no (none) blocking skills" is an extreme exaggeration, he's not the best blocking TE but he's certainly not the worst. So it's not a "he said, she said", PFF rates TEs on their ability to block. Last season Jimmy Graham rated higher in run blocking than.... Jermichael Finley Brandon Myers Jim Dray Coby Fleener Dallas Clark Charles Clay Jordan Cameron Timothy Wright Jermaine Gresham Antonio Gates Tony Gonzalez Julius Thomas and Ed Dickson. Last season Jimmy Graham rated higher in pass blocking than... Heath Miller Brandon Myers Brent Celek Delanie Walker Jordan Cameron Ben Watson Joseph Fauria Sean McGrath Kellen Winslow Owen Daniels Jermichael Finley Tony Gonzalez Zach Miller Greg Olson Scott Chandler Logan Paulsen Martellus Bennett Jim Dray and Jeff Cumberland And that's after the Saints faced 6 or 7 of the top front 7s in the league. The season before, Jimmy Graham graded out positively in both run (27th of 62) and pass (25th of 62) blocking. Yeah I saw that someone posted similar info on another site but didn't back it up with PFF stats. He's not a good blocker, but he's not terrible either. I believe I read he finished 39th among all TE's in blocking last year, which was actually a down year for his career. Considering teams usually keep 3 or more TE's that puts him roughly in the middle of the pack. He definitely has room to improve though.
Views: 15048

07-08-2014, 06:00 PM	#92
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator It's not that Graham's blocking is really terrible. But it looks bad when we're bringing in Watson obvious running downs. Personally I would like to see more two TE sets with Watson on the line and Graham flexed out to the slot where Colston often is. That could solve a lot of the issues we have with playcalling being predictable. Tangent but I really love the tight ends we have. I really believe if Graham wasn't here Watson would be a legit #1 TE. He's got the whole package. Josh Hill is pretty impressive too, IMO.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

07-08-2014, 06:37 PM	#93
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Jimmy's played hurt two seasons in a row now, so i don't know why you'd say he has no heart. As far as "alligator arms", he's scored more touchdowns than anyone in the league over the last 3 seasons. Is it just the style of how he catches the ball? if not how much more did you want him to do? That Graham has "no (none) blocking skills" is an extreme exaggeration, he's not the best blocking TE but he's certainly not the worst. So it's not a "he said, she said", PFF rates TEs on their ability to block. Last season Jimmy Graham rated higher in run blocking than.... Jermichael Finley Brandon Myers Jim Dray Coby Fleener Dallas Clark Charles Clay Jordan Cameron Timothy Wright Jermaine Gresham Antonio Gates Tony Gonzalez Julius Thomas and Ed Dickson. Last season Jimmy Graham rated higher in pass blocking than... Heath Miller Brandon Myers Brent Celek Delanie Walker Jordan Cameron Ben Watson Joseph Fauria Sean McGrath Kellen Winslow Owen Daniels Jermichael Finley Tony Gonzalez Zach Miller Greg Olson Scott Chandler Logan Paulsen Martellus Bennett Jim Dray and Jeff Cumberland And that's after the Saints faced 6 or 7 of the top front 7s in the league. The season before, Jimmy Graham graded out positively in both run (27th of 62) and pass (25th of 62) blocking. ^^^^^ To all of you Graham haters. Read the above and think. Come up with the REAL reason why you hate him so much. Behind Brees he is arguably the best offensive threat on the team. Behind Brees he is arguably the best character person on the team. The alligator arms argument is totally bogus, as is the supposed blocking issue. My thoughts are that you may have other issues with Graham, instead. And if you try to say it had to do with the negotiations this off-season then you truly have no idea of how these things work. If it is the grievance, then you have totally ignored that the whole affair was driven by the NFLPA, not Jimmy Graham. What is the real reason? Danno likes this.

07-08-2014, 06:40 PM	#94
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Originally Posted by Jack Vegas It's not that Graham's blocking is really terrible. But it looks bad when we're bringing in Watson obvious running downs. Personally I would like to see more two TE sets with Watson on the line and Graham flexed out to the slot where Colston often is. That could solve a lot of the issues we have with playcalling being predictable. Tangent but I really love the tight ends we have. I really believe if Graham wasn't here Watson would be a legit #1 TE. He's got the whole package. Josh Hill is pretty impressive too, IMO. I agree to a point, but as good as I feel Watson is (I was totally pumped when we signed him), Graham is far and away a more valuable asset to the Saints.

07-08-2014, 06:42 PM	#95
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Originally Posted by Danno Yeah I saw that someone posted similar info on another site but didn't back it up with PFF stats. He's not a good blocker, but he's not terrible either. I believe I read he finished 39th among all TE's in blocking last year, which was actually a down year for his career. Considering teams usually keep 3 or more TE's that puts him roughly in the middle of the pack. He definitely has room to improve though. He is still relatively new to the position and still great, but I agree, he still has room to approve. But those who claim he is a liability blocking or has serious issue catching the ball are delusional. Danno likes this.

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07-08-2014, 07:25 PM	#96
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator A-G, I'm not sure why so many people jump on a player, and continue to claim the same nonsense over and over again. I'm sure I've done it a time or two so I'm not on a soapbox, I guess its just human nature. Way too many times I see the comment "player X doesn't play the run as well as the pass" morph into "player X sucks against the run", and then morph into "player X is a total liability against the run and will be exploited every play". Its the same thing thats happening with Graham. He's gone from "he isn't a great blocker" into "he's a total liability blocking". I wonder why that happens so often?

07-08-2014, 07:37 PM	#97
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Originally Posted by Danno A-G, I'm not sure why so many people jump on a player, and continue to claim the same nonsense over and over again. I'm sure I've done it a time or two so I'm not on a soapbox, I guess its just human nature. Way too many times I see the comment "player X doesn't play the run as well as the pass" morph into "player X sucks against the run", and then morph into "player X is a total liability against the run and will be exploited every play". Its the same thing thats happening with Graham. He's gone from "he isn't a great blocker" into "he's a total liability blocking". I wonder why that happens so often? I am wondering the same thing. That's why I am trying to find out the motivation behind the hatred from people we know here. I agree that there is no reason why they should feel this way based upon facts, but there is the very real possibility that other influences such as media based (not in this case at all), peer based (possibility ... classic mob psychological tendencies do exist) or socially based (playing on economic, racial, and/or religious factors), etc.

07-10-2014, 05:55 PM	#98
SaintFanQ Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Leicester, England Posts: 797	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator I just want JG and the Saints organisation to get the deal done so he's a Saint for a long time to come! He's an excellent player to have on our team and has done a great job so far! GEAUX SAINTS!!!! Oh! Just one more thing. I have a Saints jersey with the name GRAHAM on the back of it, so he has to be a Saint for the next few years because I don't want to have to get another one for a long while yet! Saints shirts are a rare as rocking horse manure here in the UK! LOL!

07-10-2014, 06:47 PM	#99
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Originally Posted by SaintFanQ I just want JG and the Saints organisation to get the deal done so he's a Saint for a long time to come! He's an excellent player to have on our team and has done a great job so far! GEAUX SAINTS!!!! Oh! Just one more thing. I have a Saints jersey with the name GRAHAM on the back of it, so he has to be a Saint for the next few years because I don't want to have to get another one for a long while yet! Saints shirts are a rare as rocking horse manure here in the UK! LOL! Do not fear. You will be wearing that jersey for years to come. By the way, I once stepped in a pile of rocking horse manure and got a splinter in my toe. SaintFanQ likes this.

07-10-2014, 10:55 PM	#100
AliJee 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Southern California Posts: 267	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Was graham being taken off the field on running plays cuz he was hurt most of the season?

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