Graham designated TE by arbitrator

07-03-2014, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Cruize

I just hope he finds a way to feed his family for 7+ million a year. Poor fellow.

The NFL is a $9 billion/year industry that less than 2000 actual employees. On average that's $4.5 million a player. Note that the minimum salary ranges from about $500K to $1 million for rookies to 10+ year vets.

The CBA and the salary cap requires that the money be spent on player salaries.

I understand that the salary is a lot of money. But everyone needs to understand how vast the pool of money that it's being drawn from is.

Given that you cannot really use absolute numbers for comparison. It has to be relative to the scales of comparable employees.

JG is the best TE in the league. He's one of the best receivers in the league regardless of designation. The top TE is current being paid on average $9 million a year. Top receivers (who JG has better numbers than) are being paid over $12 million a year.

So while in absolute numbers the $7 million is a lot, in comparison to similar (actually lesser) production to others in the profession, it's woefully inadequate in terms of relative salary.

Whether it's $8/hr or $7 million/yr, it's unfair if someone is doing superior work to others and getting paid a lot less.

And considering that JG made only $1.2 million last year, which is 1/10 of the of the salary of top guys that he's put up better numbers, to ask that he take a depressed salary relative to his production is a laughable proposition.

If JG were a free agent, there are teams that would pay him $12/million a year in an open market. He wants to be a Saint. He'll most likely take $10/10.5 million a year to do so in a long term contract. That's already a hometown discount.

Frankly to ask him to take even less is just ridiculous.

SFIAH

voodooido · 07-03-2014, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

How can you say he is losing a step? You do know he played last season on an injured foot that has since healed and STILL led the league in TD's.

Personally, I don't think the ruling will have much effect either way. They were probably very close to making a deal but were playing the game that the NFLPA and the league "requested" them play.

Pretty sure he meant in 2 years when he is 30

jeanpierre · 07-03-2014, 11:33 AM

Graham, or at least his agent which is still Graham by default, was asking 12 mil/annum...

voodooido · 07-03-2014, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Graham, or at least his agent which is still Graham by default, was asking 12 mil/annum...

He will never get 12 mil a year now. We could Franchise him and get the next 2 years and just let him go if he wants that much. At the least we could resign him in 2 years for a lot less because of his age.

jeanpierre · 07-03-2014, 12:41 PM

Biggest threat to Graham's leverage now is Kenny Stills/Brandin Cooks and the overall production of the Saints offense...

IF the sophomore or rookie lights things up then fan frustration over Graham's status will dissipate; and IF that happens, then Graham (similar to Gates) will get tagged this year AND next year with the Saints more than willing to take two (2) first round draft choices for compensation should another team sign Graham; this is some cold-hard business reality...

Seer1 · 07-03-2014, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Biggest threat to Graham's leverage now is Kenny Stills/Brandin Cooks and the overall production of the Saints offense...

IF the sophomore or rookie lights things up then fan frustration over Graham's status will dissipate; and IF that happens, then Graham (similar to Gates) will get tagged this year AND next year with the Saints more than willing to take two (2) first round draft choices for compensation should another team sign Graham; this is some cold-hard business reality...

Well put, jeanpierre.

B_Dub_Saint · 07-03-2014, 02:28 PM

Very well put sir. That pretty much answers all of my questions.

Now I have a real brain buster for you, ready, why can't the failclown fans stop being jealous douche bags?

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I posted a detailed example of a potential JG contract about 3 weeks ago. You can read it here:

http://blackandgold.com/saints/66411...tml#post597157

The cap really isn't that difficult to understand. Bonuses are divided evenly over the life of the contract. Salary is paid yearly. The cap number is the sum of the bonus part and the salary part. Bonus is guaranteed. Salary is not. The remaining bonus becomes "immediately" due if the player is cut.

So to Guido's example. A $24 million signing bonus over 6 years counts $4 million a year against the cap. With a $24 million check in hand, JG would be happy to take a $1 million salary for the first year. So the cap number is $1+$4 million = $5 million. But JG gets a $24 million check when he signs.

Now the cap number the last 3 years of the contract may be $12/$15/$18 million/year because the salary increases to $8/$11/$14 million/year by the end. But then you can renegotiate, cut another bonus check, and spread out the cap number by extending the contract. Or if the player isn't productive simply cut them and eat the remaining bonus money which at that point is a lot less than the cap number with the inflated salary.

Trust me that both sides are motivated to get a long term deal done by next week. JG wants his big contract and big bonus check now, while the Saints want the cap relief of the long term contract.

That's the reason that it'll get done.

SFIAH

AsylumGuido · 07-03-2014, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

That is enlightening. I now see why you have your perspective on this situation...

BTW my profession is my moniker "The Professor". College Profs always want to analyze everything. That's why I find it fascinating...

SFIAH

I had already made that assumption. While I finished my "organized" education years ago, I still enjoy learning. I have had some limited use of my accounting training, but the economics, business law and statistics that were all requirements have served me very well as a devoted Saints fan.

AsylumGuido · 07-03-2014, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Graham, or at least his agent which is still Graham by default, was asking 12 mil/annum...

His agent never mentioned anything about $12M. That figure was floated out there because of the NFLPA's interest in pursuing the tag designation battle. That is basically the WR franchise tag amount. Graham's agent isn't an idiot. He knows that figure is totally out of the question. Salary escalation by position is marginal even under ideal conditions for the player in question. There would be no way that the annual rate for the top TE would move from $9M to $12M in one quick jump.

jnormand · 07-03-2014, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by B_Dub_Saint

Very well put sir. That pretty much answers all of my questions.

Now I have a real brain buster for you, ready, why can't the failclown fans stop being jealous douche bags?

Easy. Wouldn't you be a jealous douchenozzle if you had Matty Skid Britches behind center throwing to Shoddy **** Talker and a cry baby coach all while being annual underachievers?

07-03-2014, 11:20 AM	#61
Threaded by SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,774 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by Cruize I just hope he finds a way to feed his family for 7+ million a year. Poor fellow. The NFL is a $9 billion/year industry that less than 2000 actual employees. On average that's $4.5 million a player. Note that the minimum salary ranges from about $500K to $1 million for rookies to 10+ year vets. The CBA and the salary cap requires that the money be spent on player salaries. I understand that the salary is a lot of money. But everyone needs to understand how vast the pool of money that it's being drawn from is. Given that you cannot really use absolute numbers for comparison. It has to be relative to the scales of comparable employees. JG is the best TE in the league. He's one of the best receivers in the league regardless of designation. The top TE is current being paid on average $9 million a year. Top receivers (who JG has better numbers than) are being paid over $12 million a year. So while in absolute numbers the $7 million is a lot, in comparison to similar (actually lesser) production to others in the profession, it's woefully inadequate in terms of relative salary. Whether it's $8/hr or $7 million/yr, it's unfair if someone is doing superior work to others and getting paid a lot less. And considering that JG made only $1.2 million last year, which is 1/10 of the of the salary of top guys that he's put up better numbers, to ask that he take a depressed salary relative to his production is a laughable proposition. If JG were a free agent, there are teams that would pay him $12/million a year in an open market. He wants to be a Saint. He'll most likely take $10/10.5 million a year to do so in a long term contract. That's already a hometown discount. Frankly to ask him to take even less is just ridiculous. SFIAH
Views: 15057

07-03-2014, 11:33 AM	#62
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,766	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Originally Posted by AsylumGuido How can you say he is losing a step? You do know he played last season on an injured foot that has since healed and STILL led the league in TD's. Personally, I don't think the ruling will have much effect either way. They were probably very close to making a deal but were playing the game that the NFLPA and the league "requested" them play. Pretty sure he meant in 2 years when he is 30
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,766

07-03-2014, 11:33 AM	#63
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Graham, or at least his agent which is still Graham by default, was asking 12 mil/annum...

07-03-2014, 11:40 AM	#64
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,766	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Originally Posted by jeanpierre Graham, or at least his agent which is still Graham by default, was asking 12 mil/annum... He will never get 12 mil a year now. We could Franchise him and get the next 2 years and just let him go if he wants that much. At the least we could resign him in 2 years for a lot less because of his age.
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,766

07-03-2014, 12:41 PM	#65
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Biggest threat to Graham's leverage now is Kenny Stills/Brandin Cooks and the overall production of the Saints offense... IF the sophomore or rookie lights things up then fan frustration over Graham's status will dissipate; and IF that happens, then Graham (similar to Gates) will get tagged this year AND next year with the Saints more than willing to take two (2) first round draft choices for compensation should another team sign Graham; this is some cold-hard business reality... Rugby Saint II likes this.

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07-03-2014, 01:18 PM	#66
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Originally Posted by jeanpierre Biggest threat to Graham's leverage now is Kenny Stills/Brandin Cooks and the overall production of the Saints offense... IF the sophomore or rookie lights things up then fan frustration over Graham's status will dissipate; and IF that happens, then Graham (similar to Gates) will get tagged this year AND next year with the Saints more than willing to take two (2) first round draft choices for compensation should another team sign Graham; this is some cold-hard business reality... Well put, jeanpierre.

07-03-2014, 02:28 PM	#67
B_Dub_Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lafayette, LA Posts: 2,345 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Very well put sir. That pretty much answers all of my questions. Now I have a real brain buster for you, ready, why can't the failclown fans stop being jealous douche bags? Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I posted a detailed example of a potential JG contract about 3 weeks ago. You can read it here: http://blackandgold.com/saints/66411...tml#post597157 The cap really isn't that difficult to understand. Bonuses are divided evenly over the life of the contract. Salary is paid yearly. The cap number is the sum of the bonus part and the salary part. Bonus is guaranteed. Salary is not. The remaining bonus becomes "immediately" due if the player is cut. So to Guido's example. A $24 million signing bonus over 6 years counts $4 million a year against the cap. With a $24 million check in hand, JG would be happy to take a $1 million salary for the first year. So the cap number is $1+$4 million = $5 million. But JG gets a $24 million check when he signs. Now the cap number the last 3 years of the contract may be $12/$15/$18 million/year because the salary increases to $8/$11/$14 million/year by the end. But then you can renegotiate, cut another bonus check, and spread out the cap number by extending the contract. Or if the player isn't productive simply cut them and eat the remaining bonus money which at that point is a lot less than the cap number with the inflated salary. Trust me that both sides are motivated to get a long term deal done by next week. JG wants his big contract and big bonus check now, while the Saints want the cap relief of the long term contract. That's the reason that it'll get done. SFIAH

07-03-2014, 02:33 PM	#68
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,241	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL That is enlightening. I now see why you have your perspective on this situation... BTW my profession is my moniker "The Professor". College Profs always want to analyze everything. That's why I find it fascinating... SFIAH I had already made that assumption. While I finished my "organized" education years ago, I still enjoy learning. I have had some limited use of my accounting training, but the economics, business law and statistics that were all requirements have served me very well as a devoted Saints fan.

07-03-2014, 02:42 PM	#69
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,241	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Originally Posted by jeanpierre Graham, or at least his agent which is still Graham by default, was asking 12 mil/annum... His agent never mentioned anything about $12M. That figure was floated out there because of the NFLPA's interest in pursuing the tag designation battle. That is basically the WR franchise tag amount. Graham's agent isn't an idiot. He knows that figure is totally out of the question. Salary escalation by position is marginal even under ideal conditions for the player in question. There would be no way that the annual rate for the top TE would move from $9M to $12M in one quick jump. Rugby Saint II likes this.

07-03-2014, 03:06 PM	#70
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,662	Re: Graham designated TE by arbitrator Originally Posted by B_Dub_Saint Very well put sir. That pretty much answers all of my questions. Now I have a real brain buster for you, ready, why can't the failclown fans stop being jealous douche bags? Easy. Wouldn't you be a jealous douchenozzle if you had Matty Skid Britches behind center throwing to Shoddy **** Talker and a cry baby coach all while being annual underachievers? SaintFanInATLHELL and B_Dub_Saint like this.

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