saintfan

I agree that we\'ll just have to disagree, but I\'m not insane, and I don\'t expect the problems to just \"fix themselves\". I\'m tired of reading all this stuff in here where it\'s as if you people think the Saints will just sit back and let the chips fall where they may. There can be no doubt that Haz sees the problems you and I and everyone else sees. It\'s as if you people think he encouraged the team to tank it...that he purposfully sabotaged the season for the sake of AB or in spite of Jake. That\'s just rediculous thinking is all. Changes will come, and level heads will prevail, but the majority of those changes will be on defense. In spite of the AB bashers and Haz haters, that\'s exactly where they should be.

To be perfectly honest, I was concerned when Haz became the coach. At that time I was hoping we\'d hire someone with a proven track record; however, my opinion of Jim is that he\'s done a good job so far, and so was most everyone else\'s after the first 7 games of the season in spite of what happened last year. Buddy D was singing his praises too, and then he turned on him just like the rest of you have. Thats typical Sports radio if you ask me. Controversy sells baby. I\'m just not as eager to turn on him as some of you are simply because I want someone to blame. A coach must coach, and as the Head Coach he is ultimately responsible, but he is the mother to no player, and he can\'t bench the entire offensive line or otherwise suit up and start blocking himslef because they can\'t pass protect. At some point players must be motivated from within. Do you think Sapp needs Gruden to \"coach him up\" on game day? How about Brian Cox? On a winning team, the players police themselves. We need more people like that...and especially on defense. I expect we might sign one or two of those this offseason.

Ultimately, until any of us are in that locker room, anything typed here is purely speculation. Speculate all you want...thats what this forum is for, but understand that there are a few of us out here that will remain loyal to AB until he really starts stinkin it up...and he\'ll have to do that when he\'s healthy too. I LOVE Jake Delhome, and I thought he should have been given the change to start the year they signed Jeff Blake. I was upset at the time. I thought they did Jake wrong, but I\'m not gonna join the leagues of you that wanna yank AB just because you like Jake. Jake can\'t run like AB, doesn\'t have nearly the arm, and hadn\'t convinced the coaches he was ready...even before AB came to town. There has yet to be someone type something in here that comes remotely close to explaining that...as they call for AB\'s benching. No one...not yet...I\'m still waiting.

By the same token, I\'m not gonna start screaming for Haz\'s job because what might just have been a somewhat overrated team lost the last 3 games. The Vikings were playing MUCH better ball at the end of the year. They\'re a tough team...regardless of their record. It\'s not Jim\'s fault that we didn\'t have the defense to stop \'em. The Saints and Carolina have been playing close games for years. Did any of you think that game was gonna be a walk? I didn\'t. I think we should have won, but I don\'t think we lost because of the game plan or coaching. I think we lost because we coudn\'t pass block and because receivers dropped passes that hit \'em in the hands. That\'s not to say AB didn\'t have a bad game because he did, but ultimately he played well enough to win. These guys are pro\'s, and Haz shouldn\'t have to \"motivate\" or coach \'em up for a game like that. The players simply blew it.

Let me say that I\'m glad those of you that are \"demanding\" answers aren\'t running the team. If you were, heaven only know\'s who\'d be coaching. If you were, heaven only know\'s what you\'d sacrifice in the Draft just to get Home Boy Eli Manning. If you were, heaven only knows the cap trouble this team would likely find itself in. If you were, it seems to me you\'d all be far too interested in fixing an offense that really doesn\'t need it instead of focusing your attention of the defense where it belongs. So many negative posts about an offense that scored in the neighborhood of 30 points per game this year yet so few negative posts about a defense that held a team to under 20 just once.

DEMAND all the answers you want. Fire the coach, trade the QB. Heck, lets just move the team to Mississippi while we\'re at it. Doncha think Eli would be happier there anyway? I say Yes, Definately, we should just \"agree to disagree\".

C'mon Man...

WhoDat

Saintfan, I find some of your opinions on Brooks and Haslett to be ridiculous. No offense, I just don\'t understand how you can think that the best player always plays regardless of politics, economics, and/or old fashion favortism.

Here are a few quarterbacks that I know of who were either traded or released by a team b/c they didn\'t think they had the talent and/or never would have gotten a chance at being a starter or had anyone take a real good look at them if the starting quarterback on their team hadn\'t gotten hurt. Warner, Young, Favre, Gannon, Garcia, Pennington, Brady, Dilfer, Holcomb, Maddox, Collins, and oh yeah, Brooks.

Fact is, if Blake hadn\'t ever gotten hurt most of us probably wouldn\'t have any real idea of who Aaron Brooks is. But now, because Brooks is the starter and puts up some good numbers he\'s infallable? Blake put up good numbers. Brooks put up better numbers. Who is to say Delhomme\'s numbers can\'t be even better?

Do I think Haslett is trying to lose games? Of course not. Is he doing the best he can. I would say so. The problem is that I, for one, don\'t care about his best. I care about results. His team overachieved in 200, true. But they\'ve grossly underachieved for the last two years.

Next year is water shed year for me. Haslett\'s team better put up big time or he absolutely has to go. Four years is more than enough time in the NFL to make a real contender out of any team. Go ask Parcels... or better yet, go ask your buddy Jimmy Johnson.

As for Brooks, you\'re right he is a better athlete and he does have a stronger arm than Jake. He is also not as smart, not the leader, doesn\'t have the touch, and apparently doesn\'t have the heart that Jake does.

Seriously, if you want to talk about Brooks, let\'s do that. What are his strengths? The ones that I know of are that he is strong armed and athletic. The knocks on him are that he has no touch, can\'t throw the deep ball, isn\'t real smart, and isn\'t a great leader. so let\'s break it down:

He\'s athletic. That would be great if he used it, but he doesn\'t. He rarely runs and only uses his athleticism to escape the rush. 60% of the time he escapes the rush he throws the ball away. 10% of the time he throws complete 10% of the time (or more) he throws a dangerous pass, and the other 20% he gets sacked anyway and/or fumbles. Great, so much for athleticism.

How about a strong arm? It\'s the west coast offense! Any QB in the NFL can throw real hard for 10 yards. But can he use the speed of guys like Stallworth to stretch the field? No, b/c he can\'t throw the deep ball. He has to throw it short and hope our receivers can break away.

Can he throw the touch pass to the tight end in the middle of the field, getting the ball just over the receivers but under the safties? No, he has to gun it as hard as he can through a gap that may or may not be there.

Can he throw the timing pattern on a deep out 15 yards down the field? No. He has to wait until the receiver starts his break and then throw as hard as he can.

Can he step up to the line, read a defense, find the hot route and get the ball out in 2 seconds? No he makes his line block for 5 seconds every play as he wanders around lost or staring at the ONE and ONLY ONE receiver who the play is designed for.

Can he get in the huddle and motivate his teammates? Not that I\'ve ever heard of. So you tell me Saintfan, why is Brooks THE GUY for the Saints? Why will he be the quarterback to lead us to the Super Bowl?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

saintfan

Brooks was brought in the Green Bay to take over for Blake eventually. I can\'t think the Saints would have picked him up if they thought Jake had all the intangibles you give him credit for having. Where did you learn all this about Jake anyway? Are you at practice everyday? Are you of this opinion because he beat a bad Dallas team a few years ago? This man goes 7 for 8 during one strecth and makes one 5 yard throw on a slant to Joe Horn (you or I and maybe even Saintz08 could have made that little toss) and all of a sudden he\'s the next Montana? He\'s the \"leader\"? What gives? Do you guys eat at the same McDonalds or what?

I support Brooks because of his obvious talent. I realize that giving up on a QB to early can be costly. Why was Garcia in the CFL? Why was Farve traded? There are a hundred other QB\'s I could mention, but I know you\'re smart enough to get the idea. NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY lines up and lights it up every time. It\'s as if you guys expect Brooks to win the superbowl on his own. Talk to me about blitzers coming in untouched. Talk to me about dropped passes.

The out pass you say Brooks can\'t throw. I seem to Recall Stallworth scoring on at least one of those this year. Was is the Chicago game? How many 20 yard passes did the Saints complete this year? What was the NFL average? I\'ll let you do the research and you can get back to me. For that matter, how many points did the Saints average this year? Do you think we would have averaged more if Jake was the Starter? Good question ain\'t it?

C'mon Man...

WhoDat

Yes, I am saying we could have averaged more with Jake. We wouldn\'t have scored, what, 13 points in our last two games. You make it out as if stats like touchdown passes are the only thing that matters on the field. I\'d bet my life savings that Delhomme doesn\'t make the same number of mistakes Brooks made this year if he starts.

You have to wonder why blitzers started coming around the corner untouched. Apparently, your opinion is that the entire offense tanked. You\'re partially correct. The problem is that teams study film, you see. Those teams learned that Brooks was a fast ball pitcher who couldn\'t make the kind of touch and timing passes that you need to be successful in the west coast offense. So they crowded the middle and sent the house. Brooks isn\'t going to beat you deep. He holds the ball too long. Take away Horn and send the house. If you do that enough Brooks will fumble and/or throw at least one interception.

And you\'re right saintfan - the guys in the league know a whole lot more than you or I do. So if I know that, imagine how easy it is for them to identify the ways to break down Aaron Brooks.

Again, you\'re right about Delhomme. We didn\'t see enough of him in game situations to know how good he really is or could be. But he was 7-8 in the baltimore game for 100 and something yards. Those are the stats of a west coast quarterback. Short quick passes. Timing routes. Touch passes over linebackers. Three steps and get rid of it. Not five steps, dance, dance, look around lost, scramble, back pedal, throw off your back foor towards Horn into double coverage.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

WhoDat

Oh, and one other thing Saintfan - in my post above I broke down a number of things that Brooks does NOT do well. You haven\'t given me one thing that yo ucan say Brooks does well on a consistent basis. So tell me, in what way is Brooks better than most of the other quaterbacks in the league?

saintfan

You tell me WhoDat. Show me some stats...some full season stats and tell me how bad Brooks really is. Include \'em all now and lets judge \'em. Let\'s get off my opinion and your opinion ok? TD\'s, INT\'s, etc, etc. Lets see where he ranked as a 2nd year starter while we\'re at it. Also, see if you can find out how many balls were dropped, or how many times teams blew right past our line and came straight for Brooks without \"sending the house\". The Blitz that ended our season this year, as I recall, came from between left tackle and left guard. Nobody picked it up. Maybe Brooks should block the blitzer before he attempts to pass. While he\'s at it, maybe he should jog down the field and catch his own pass too.

C'mon Man...

WhoDat

No problem Saints fan:

Amongst the 30 QBs with the most passing yards in the leage:
TDs - 2nd (tie)
Yards - 9th
Attempts - 9th
Completions - 16th
Completion Percentage - 27th
INTs - 10th most (tie)
Long - 19th (tie)
Passer Rating - 20th


So let\'s see, he excels at throwing touchdown passes. He had the ninth most attempts, so for me, it goes to reason that he should have the ninth most yards and the ninth most completions... oops, 16th most completions, and thus 27th in completion percentage. 20th in passer rating. Oh, and remember how I said he can\'t throw the long ball... well his long on the season isn\'t as long as 18 other QBs. Are those stats good enough for you or would you like more?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

WhoDat

PS - you\'re still talking about everyone else but Brooks.

SAINTFAN, CAN YOU TELL ME ONE THING THAT YOU FEEL AARON BROOKS EXCELS AT AS A QUARTERBACK? I\'m only asking for one man. Just one.

saintz08

Saintsfan

Thats not fair to Brooks to bring up the blitzes .

Everyone especially the Browns , know Brooks cannot read defenses . If he could read defenses , don\'t you think he would audible out at the line of scrimmage ??

saintfan

Ok, so 4 top 10 marks in your 8 particular categories right? Not bad in my opinion, especially for a 2nd year starter. Now, lets see if we can find some stats on the receivers in question...dropped balls etc, etc. Let\'s looks at the number of sacks, hurries, knock-downs, etc. Lets look at it all man, because, like I keep trying to make you people understand, no one man accounts for the teams results. And for that matter, you can\'t tell me Jake would do any better. You couldn\'t possibly know that because the man never plays.

Lets see...numbers on Jake:
CAREER 50 86 634 58.1 7.37 54 3 5 6 68.7 15 70 4.7 27 2

Thats CMP< ATT< YDS< CMP%< YPA< LNG< TD< INT< SACK< RAT< ATT< YDS< AVG< LNG< TD...the last 5 are rushing stats.

Numbers on Brooks:
708 1280 8918 55.3 6.97 64 62 43 102 79.4 182 784 4.3 29 5

Lets check Brooks\' numbers after his first 5 starts:
113 194 58.2 1514 7.80 53 9 6 15 94 85.7 41 170 4.1 29 2

I just don\'t see Jake blowin him out of the water yet, do you? Even so, if you base your entire opinion on the stats then you\'re foolish. Those numbers reflect a running game, the quality of reciever(s)...of which Brooks had ONE for a year and a half. Don\'t forget Blocking, play calling, etc, etc, etc.

If you don\'t see the man\'s talent then you never will. If you insist on having Jake as the starter just because you don\'t like Brooks then enjoy your disapointment. Now, if Jake were to do what he has yet to do which is beat Brooks in camp and become the Starter, then I\'m behind him 100%. It\'s not about me not likeing Jake, it\'s about you (and others) preteding to be GM\'s and Head Coaches. Could it be that you\'re as deep into Jake as you claim Haz is into Brooks? Sure sounds like it to me.

How about Brett\'s numbers in his first 13 starts:

302 471 64.1 3227 6.85 76 18 13 34 208 85.3 47 198 4.2 19 1

Now I don\'t see Brooks as that far off the mark. Do you? You have no idea what Jake may or may not do, because you have nothing to base it on. You\'re just guessing.

C'mon Man...