Same... Old... Saints...

spkb25 · 01-04-2005, 06:27 PM

well i wouldnt say the last 4 games were the same old saints but the whole season was the same old saints. maybe we have found some players on defense who can really continue the turn around next year. im not sure. more then likely we come out and have the same season next year. im willing to give it one more year though. this team showed character and heart. boy if we could have just had that the first 12 games. im willing to try one more year only because if we get a new coach this whole thing gets changed around. something i was looking for before the last 4 games. if we keep the d basically the same maybe they come out better or as well as they were theese last 4 games. i could take that. but it is an if. thats the biggest problem. because we dont know if the corner has been turned or just more of the same and more of the same next year. it is a rsik. im willing to make it for one more year because i think the risk is equal if we get a new coach. if we had nothing to loose like when we were 4-8 and headed for what seemed a 5-11 or 6-10 season i was willing to have a new coach. but now since there is something to build off of i\'d like to wait for only one more season. if things are the same next year then thats it. no more chances.

WhoDat · 01-04-2005, 06:45 PM

I cannot believe people are pointing to our defense as a strength all of a sudden. Yes, they played better in the last 4 games, but c\'mon!! They were 32nd in the league! LAST!

mutineer10 · 01-05-2005, 03:15 AM

I cannot believe people are pointing to our defense as a strength all of a sudden. Yes, they played better in the last 4 games, but c\'mon!! They were 32nd in the league! LAST!

Indeed, hard to argue. The most baffling thing may be: just what in the heck got into them? No significant personnel changes (McKenzie was around before the last four games), no late-season DC change (though there were some rumors that Haz took more responsibility in defensive play-calling), no real significant support from the offense, either (the defense kept us in the Carolina game). Why couldn\'t this defense have shown up all season?

It\'s a riveting question ... any ideas?

Danno · 01-05-2005, 08:06 AM

Here\'s my take on the whole D-improvement. And it just went from horrible to slightly below avarage.
CORNERBACKS
The emergence of Brown and McKenzie solidified our secondary enough to take some more chances with the front seven. Both are solid versus the run and pass.
They also play with fire and attitude. A huge upgrade of Ambrose/Thomas. Craft is a good nickle.

LINEBACKERS
We ended the season with Allen, Watson, and Bockwoldt. A 3rd year guy who appears to be getting it now, a rookie MLB, and a 7th round rookie project. I think its more of an indictment of just how bad Ruff, Hodge, and even Rodgers were.
Allen is finally playing the SLB like many thought he could, but you kinda have to worry about a guy that takes 3 years to learn how to play LB. He still has me worried.

Watson I\'m impressed with. I have no problem keeping him in the middle.

Bockwoldt is playing only because everyone else sucks. But he was an upgrade to what we had, which is sad. But I am excited about his potential. He\'s got blazing speed and perfect size for the WLB, now he just needs to get stronger.

D-LINE
I think they started to play within Pease\'s system and its now working. Whitehead coming back sure helped. We have 3 of the 4 pieces of the puzzle in place. But I don\'t want to go into next year at NT with a street FA (Green) and an undersized converted DE (Whitehead or Kenny Smith) trying to play the nose.

This unit looked much improved by seasons end, but they are FAR from being above-average. But going from an \"F\" to a \"C\" doesn\'t mean we\'re the freakin Ravens now.

spkb25 · 01-05-2005, 06:52 PM

well danno were not the ravens but u cant argue with results. which were less then 20 points each game the last 4. i think that whitehead and the changes at lb and of course corner helped. i really like the way our d played against dalls and more importantly the last game against carolina. i didnt see the atlanta game. but carolina was putting up like 30 points a game on average during their streak. so i would have to say there is hope there. i think we can compete. but it is all about attitude. and one thing u would almost have to think is that if they stunk under has and then were good under has well then the problem would be the players. i mean can you be 4-8 because of the coaching and then 4-0 because of the coaching. doesnt make much sense. but i would agree coaching or not if they cant win next year he has to go because at some point u have to find players that will do whats asked of them. n i for one am in love with bockwoldt

RDOX · 01-05-2005, 06:58 PM

Here\'s my take on the whole D-improvement. And it just went from horrible to slightly below avarage.
CORNERBACKS
The emergence of Brown and McKenzie solidified our secondary enough to take some more chances with the front seven. Both are solid versus the run and pass.
They also play with fire and attitude. A huge upgrade of Ambrose/Thomas. Craft is a good nickle.

LINEBACKERS
We ended the season with Allen, Watson, and Bockwoldt. A 3rd year guy who appears to be getting it now, a rookie MLB, and a 7th round rookie project. I think its more of an indictment of just how bad Ruff, Hodge, and even Rodgers were.
Allen is finally playing the SLB like many thought he could, but you kinda have to worry about a guy that takes 3 years to learn how to play LB. He still has me worried.

Watson I\'m impressed with. I have no problem keeping him in the middle.

Bockwoldt is playing only because everyone else sucks. But he was an upgrade to what we had, which is sad. But I am excited about his potential. He\'s got blazing speed and perfect size for the WLB, now he just needs to get stronger.

D-LINE
I think they started to play within Pease\'s system and its now working. Whitehead coming back sure helped. We have 3 of the 4 pieces of the puzzle in place. But I don\'t want to go into next year at NT with a street FA (Green) and an undersized converted DE (Whitehead or Kenny Smith) trying to play the nose.

This unit looked much improved by seasons end, but they are FAR from being above-average. But going from an \"F\" to a \"C\" doesn\'t mean we\'re the freakin Ravens now.

Very well put. The other problem is the committee selecting these players. That is the GM and the DPP. All of the talk about getting rid of Haz, and I admit I was in it too, is eclipsed by the absolutely bush league, low class, and back stabbing behavior of LoomBoom and the rest of his front office crew.

Assuming that Tom Donahue is available to replace LoomBoo, and that Tom brings a competent DPP into the mixture, and we change at both Coordinators and LB coach, we may be better with help from free agency and a strong draft. This is especially true if we can pawn Fumbles the Clown off to and unsuspecting Dallas team for Henson, or sign a journeyman QB and draft a hot young prospect. With LoomBoom those hopes will be dashed and we\'ll be happy to see 8-8 again.

GumboBC · 01-05-2005, 08:08 PM

WhoDat --

You want change and that\'s fine.

But, anyone can see the significant improvement on defense. Forget the ranking of the defense. I know what I saw the last 4 or 5 games and it was far from being the worst defense in the NFL.

There\'s all kinds of reasons the defense improved. But the bottom line is they improved significantly.

If the Saints would have played great early in the season and then had a major fall-off, then I\'d say show Haz the door. But they played poorly early and made huge strides late in the season.

Playoffs would have been great but I\'m sure looking foward to seeing that 32nd ranked defense next year. I think most fans are excited about the defense now.

Could a new coaching staff make us better? I really have no idea. And you can\'t say if we would be better or worse. The only thing you can say for certain is you THINK we will be better with a new coach.

No, I can\'t promise anything if Haz stays. But I can promise you they did a hell of a job improving this defense and rallying the troops and almost made the playoffs.

I\'m not satisfied, I\'m not happy, but Haz showed me enough to give him one more year.

Maybe I\'m the biggest sucker on the planet but.....

BrooksMustGo · 01-05-2005, 08:25 PM

Maybe I\'m the biggest sucker on the planet but.....

It\'s just too easy.

No way to comment on that.

spkb25 · 01-05-2005, 08:27 PM

gumbo i agree with some of what u said. the fact is if we go with a new coach then we r rebuilding. i was willing to do that when we had nothing to play for because at that point ur rebuilding regardless of ur coach. but if we have something to build off of lets give it one more year. because with a new coach were in the same position but actually ina little bit worse

GumboBC · 01-05-2005, 08:35 PM

I used to be a big Haz fan. But after last year, I wanted him gone.

For the past few years this defense has been horrible. I just couldn\'t understand how Haz ( a defensive coach) couldn\'t get this defense to play better.

But now, I\'m sold they have it straighted out to a point to where I believe it will be a major strength next year. Who knows what a new coaching staff will do.

I think the defense can compete right now. With a couple of more players, it could be really dominate.

It\'s all speculation to how this team will be next year, regardless of coaching. But, I think the safe bet is for Haslett to stay. Let\'s not forget that Tom Benson has a history of picking some terrible coaches.

Do you have more faith in Haslett?

Or do you have more faith in Tom Benson?

01-04-2005, 06:27 PM	#21
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Same... Old... Saints... well i wouldnt say the last 4 games were the same old saints but the whole season was the same old saints. maybe we have found some players on defense who can really continue the turn around next year. im not sure. more then likely we come out and have the same season next year. im willing to give it one more year though. this team showed character and heart. boy if we could have just had that the first 12 games. im willing to try one more year only because if we get a new coach this whole thing gets changed around. something i was looking for before the last 4 games. if we keep the d basically the same maybe they come out better or as well as they were theese last 4 games. i could take that. but it is an if. thats the biggest problem. because we dont know if the corner has been turned or just more of the same and more of the same next year. it is a rsik. im willing to make it for one more year because i think the risk is equal if we get a new coach. if we had nothing to loose like when we were 4-8 and headed for what seemed a 5-11 or 6-10 season i was willing to have a new coach. but now since there is something to build off of i\'d like to wait for only one more season. if things are the same next year then thats it. no more chances.
	Your team stinks

01-04-2005, 06:45 PM	#22
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Same... Old... Saints... I cannot believe people are pointing to our defense as a strength all of a sudden. Yes, they played better in the last 4 games, but c\'mon!! They were 32nd in the league! LAST!
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

01-05-2005, 03:15 AM	#23
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Same... Old... Saints... I cannot believe people are pointing to our defense as a strength all of a sudden. Yes, they played better in the last 4 games, but c\'mon!! They were 32nd in the league! LAST! Indeed, hard to argue. The most baffling thing may be: just what in the heck got into them? No significant personnel changes (McKenzie was around before the last four games), no late-season DC change (though there were some rumors that Haz took more responsibility in defensive play-calling), no real significant support from the offense, either (the defense kept us in the Carolina game). Why couldn\'t this defense have shown up all season? It\'s a riveting question ... any ideas?

01-05-2005, 08:06 AM	#24
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Same... Old... Saints... Here\'s my take on the whole D-improvement. And it just went from horrible to slightly below avarage. CORNERBACKS The emergence of Brown and McKenzie solidified our secondary enough to take some more chances with the front seven. Both are solid versus the run and pass. They also play with fire and attitude. A huge upgrade of Ambrose/Thomas. Craft is a good nickle. LINEBACKERS We ended the season with Allen, Watson, and Bockwoldt. A 3rd year guy who appears to be getting it now, a rookie MLB, and a 7th round rookie project. I think its more of an indictment of just how bad Ruff, Hodge, and even Rodgers were. Allen is finally playing the SLB like many thought he could, but you kinda have to worry about a guy that takes 3 years to learn how to play LB. He still has me worried. Watson I\'m impressed with. I have no problem keeping him in the middle. Bockwoldt is playing only because everyone else sucks. But he was an upgrade to what we had, which is sad. But I am excited about his potential. He\'s got blazing speed and perfect size for the WLB, now he just needs to get stronger. D-LINE I think they started to play within Pease\'s system and its now working. Whitehead coming back sure helped. We have 3 of the 4 pieces of the puzzle in place. But I don\'t want to go into next year at NT with a street FA (Green) and an undersized converted DE (Whitehead or Kenny Smith) trying to play the nose. This unit looked much improved by seasons end, but they are FAR from being above-average. But going from an \"F\" to a \"C\" doesn\'t mean we\'re the freakin Ravens now.

01-05-2005, 06:52 PM	#25
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Same... Old... Saints... well danno were not the ravens but u cant argue with results. which were less then 20 points each game the last 4. i think that whitehead and the changes at lb and of course corner helped. i really like the way our d played against dalls and more importantly the last game against carolina. i didnt see the atlanta game. but carolina was putting up like 30 points a game on average during their streak. so i would have to say there is hope there. i think we can compete. but it is all about attitude. and one thing u would almost have to think is that if they stunk under has and then were good under has well then the problem would be the players. i mean can you be 4-8 because of the coaching and then 4-0 because of the coaching. doesnt make much sense. but i would agree coaching or not if they cant win next year he has to go because at some point u have to find players that will do whats asked of them. n i for one am in love with bockwoldt
	Your team stinks

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01-05-2005, 06:58 PM	#26
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	Same... Old... Saints... Here\'s my take on the whole D-improvement. And it just went from horrible to slightly below avarage. CORNERBACKS The emergence of Brown and McKenzie solidified our secondary enough to take some more chances with the front seven. Both are solid versus the run and pass. They also play with fire and attitude. A huge upgrade of Ambrose/Thomas. Craft is a good nickle. LINEBACKERS We ended the season with Allen, Watson, and Bockwoldt. A 3rd year guy who appears to be getting it now, a rookie MLB, and a 7th round rookie project. I think its more of an indictment of just how bad Ruff, Hodge, and even Rodgers were. Allen is finally playing the SLB like many thought he could, but you kinda have to worry about a guy that takes 3 years to learn how to play LB. He still has me worried. Watson I\'m impressed with. I have no problem keeping him in the middle. Bockwoldt is playing only because everyone else sucks. But he was an upgrade to what we had, which is sad. But I am excited about his potential. He\'s got blazing speed and perfect size for the WLB, now he just needs to get stronger. D-LINE I think they started to play within Pease\'s system and its now working. Whitehead coming back sure helped. We have 3 of the 4 pieces of the puzzle in place. But I don\'t want to go into next year at NT with a street FA (Green) and an undersized converted DE (Whitehead or Kenny Smith) trying to play the nose. This unit looked much improved by seasons end, but they are FAR from being above-average. But going from an \"F\" to a \"C\" doesn\'t mean we\'re the freakin Ravens now. Very well put. The other problem is the committee selecting these players. That is the GM and the DPP. All of the talk about getting rid of Haz, and I admit I was in it too, is eclipsed by the absolutely bush league, low class, and back stabbing behavior of LoomBoom and the rest of his front office crew. Assuming that Tom Donahue is available to replace LoomBoo, and that Tom brings a competent DPP into the mixture, and we change at both Coordinators and LB coach, we may be better with help from free agency and a strong draft. This is especially true if we can pawn Fumbles the Clown off to and unsuspecting Dallas team for Henson, or sign a journeyman QB and draft a hot young prospect. With LoomBoom those hopes will be dashed and we\'ll be happy to see 8-8 again.
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

01-05-2005, 08:08 PM	#27
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Same... Old... Saints... WhoDat -- You want change and that\'s fine. But, anyone can see the significant improvement on defense. Forget the ranking of the defense. I know what I saw the last 4 or 5 games and it was far from being the worst defense in the NFL. There\'s all kinds of reasons the defense improved. But the bottom line is they improved significantly. If the Saints would have played great early in the season and then had a major fall-off, then I\'d say show Haz the door. But they played poorly early and made huge strides late in the season. Playoffs would have been great but I\'m sure looking foward to seeing that 32nd ranked defense next year. I think most fans are excited about the defense now. Could a new coaching staff make us better? I really have no idea. And you can\'t say if we would be better or worse. The only thing you can say for certain is you THINK we will be better with a new coach. No, I can\'t promise anything if Haz stays. But I can promise you they did a hell of a job improving this defense and rallying the troops and almost made the playoffs. I\'m not satisfied, I\'m not happy, but Haz showed me enough to give him one more year. Maybe I\'m the biggest sucker on the planet but.....
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-05-2005, 08:25 PM	#28
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Same... Old... Saints... Maybe I\'m the biggest sucker on the planet but..... It\'s just too easy. No way to comment on that.

01-05-2005, 08:27 PM	#29
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Same... Old... Saints... gumbo i agree with some of what u said. the fact is if we go with a new coach then we r rebuilding. i was willing to do that when we had nothing to play for because at that point ur rebuilding regardless of ur coach. but if we have something to build off of lets give it one more year. because with a new coach were in the same position but actually ina little bit worse

01-05-2005, 08:35 PM	#30
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Same... Old... Saints... I used to be a big Haz fan. But after last year, I wanted him gone. For the past few years this defense has been horrible. I just couldn\'t understand how Haz ( a defensive coach) couldn\'t get this defense to play better. But now, I\'m sold they have it straighted out to a point to where I believe it will be a major strength next year. Who knows what a new coaching staff will do. I think the defense can compete right now. With a couple of more players, it could be really dominate. It\'s all speculation to how this team will be next year, regardless of coaching. But, I think the safe bet is for Haslett to stay. Let\'s not forget that Tom Benson has a history of picking some terrible coaches. Do you have more faith in Haslett? Or do you have more faith in Tom Benson?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616