IF we do draft a Lb....

JKool · 01-04-2005, 05:12 PM

I agree with Who and BMG completely on this one. The draft is not the place we\'re going to START improving. While I agree that we\'ve done VERY poorly in the FA the last several years, I am going to cross my fingers that this year we will have learned our lesson.

We drafted two LBs and they were both starting by the end of the year, but we still weren\'t all that terrific against the run. Get a stud (or two) in FA!

I\'d sit Allen. He plays like he\'s stupid. He becomes on fire a game or two a year, but he\'s frequently out of position, he doesn\'t stick guys at the line (though he\'s ok in pursuit) from what I\'ve seen, and he is mediocre in coverage. I\'m excited about Buckwoldt, but I\'d sit him too if we can get two studs in FA.

Until this year I wasn\'t very convinced that the SLB and WLB were that different positions. I realize that there are a few different duties, but on the whole I thought it shouldn\'t be too hard to move guys between the two positions. However, having seen us struggle without a real SLB this season, I\'m starting to think I was wrong about the interchangeability of OLBs.

Danno · 01-04-2005, 05:34 PM

Jkool, I\'ve always stereo-typed them as WLB is the speed guy who works well in the open field. Typically the smaller of the 3.
The SLB has a TE to contend with most of the time, needs to be better at shedding blocks and has more coverage responsibilites. He\'s typically a bit larger than the WLB.

But those stereotypes are old school philosophies and may not fit well in todays versatile LB league. I\'m sure there are dozens of examples that contradict those stereotypes now.

I do think that if you put Colby on the strongside they\'ll just run right over him all day. Allen was moved to the SLB because of his strength versus the run and hitting ability. He was a little slow picking up the system but has played much better of late. He\'s looked better in the last 4 games than Hodge has in his 3 year career.

I\'d still bring in a solid vet. Allen would be at worst a good back-up.
I\'d buy Hodge a bus ticket.

saintswhodi · 01-04-2005, 05:49 PM

agree with Who and BMG completely on this one. The draft is not the place we\'re going to START improving. While I agree that we\'ve done VERY poorly in the FA the last several years, I am going to cross my fingers that this year we will have learned our lesson.

Kool, I agree Free Agency IS the place to improve, but WHEN have we ever done it? I know you are holding on to hope that common sense will prevail and they will do what is necessary but this is Tom Benson and Mickey Loomis. THEY WILL NOT spend the money necessary to get a big name free agent in here at any position. Mediocre guys we can get cheap(Orlando Ruff and Brian Young come to mind), is the way they always go in free agency. I don\'t think anyone is trying to say we should use the draft to improve our team only, what they are saying is, hey we know we aren\'t gonna spend the money to get anyone, so who can we get in the draft.

And before I get a hundred posts about Young, I love his heart and effort. He is just not an impact DT. May have a lot to do with who is playing next to him, but quick tell me who plays next to Kevin Williams in Minny? Rod Coleman in Atlanta(who we didn\'t try to get)? McFarland in Tampa? They\'re still impact guys with nobodies next to them.

Euphoria · 01-04-2005, 06:02 PM

FA is to improve QUICK- QUICK FIX. Draft is building for the future. One, I don\'t see us getting a LB in round one... snagging an OT is the way to go there. We need a D Coach... one who knows what he is doing and can get us to stop a damn screen.

FireVenturi · 01-04-2005, 06:22 PM

Why is it people always start talking about the draft the second the season ends? You know how the Saints are going to improve immediately? Through free agency. You want a starting linebacker who can make an impact? He\'s already playing he\'s not coming from the draft.

Because we never get any impact guys in free agency and we have in the draft(Grant,Mcalister,Smith,Karney,Bockwoldt,Bentely...shall i go on?)

Danno · 01-04-2005, 06:32 PM

And before I get a hundred posts about Young, I love his heart and effort. He is just not an impact DT. May have a lot to do with who is playing next to him, but quick tell me who plays next to Kevin Williams in Minny? Rod Coleman in Atlanta(who we didn\'t try to get)? McFarland in Tampa? They\'re still impact guys with nobodies next to them.

The whole thing about 2-gapper (or Nose tackle) is they consume two blockers and allow the other guy to shoot gaps.
McFarland (2-gapper) had crappy stats and Sapp (1-gapper) got all the glory.
I\'m not saying Young is an A-plus stud, but I\'d hardly call him a mediocre player. Put him next to a healthy McFarland type fat-body and watch him stud-out.

spkb25 · 01-04-2005, 06:37 PM

right now and understand i said right now i like our linebackers. i love bockwoldt n wouldnt sit him. the kid is going to be good in this league. why people keep wanting to bench guys for players with better speed or size or what is perceived to be the perfect lb i cant guess. noone here but just everyone it seems in the league. the kid can play and is fast as hell. theres just no way i\'d bench that kid unless his play was bad. i think right now going into the ofseason we need o-line help. we need a stud.

FireVenturi · 01-04-2005, 06:40 PM

right now and understand i said right now i like our linebackers. i love bockwoldt n wouldnt sit him. the kid is going to be good in this league. why people keep wanting to bench guys for players with better speed or size or what is perceived to be the perfect lb i cant guess. noone here but just everyone it seems in the league. the kid can play and is fast as hell. theres just no way i\'d bench that kid unless his play was bad. i think right now going into the ofseason we need o-line help. we need a stud.

Any chance that Brown guy , tackle from OU will be there when we pick?

WhoDat · 01-04-2005, 06:52 PM

I am going to cross my fingers that this year we will have learned our lesson.

Congratulations JKool - you just created the slogan for every Saints fan under the Haslett era... hell it would even work for the organization itself.

BrooksMustGo · 01-04-2005, 07:26 PM

I\'m not sure I\'m following some of the rationale here: we have never made good use of free agency, so we need to put all of our eggs in the draft basket?

We continue to ignore free agents at our peril. If we don\'t make any meaningful moves in free agency (by this I mean a real impact player), there is no need to act surprised next season when we are watching other teams in the playoffs.

If this organization refuses to pay for a quality impact player, then it should scream to the fans that the organization isn\'t committed to winning.

01-04-2005, 05:12 PM	#11
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	IF we do draft a Lb.... I agree with Who and BMG completely on this one. The draft is not the place we\'re going to START improving. While I agree that we\'ve done VERY poorly in the FA the last several years, I am going to cross my fingers that this year we will have learned our lesson. We drafted two LBs and they were both starting by the end of the year, but we still weren\'t all that terrific against the run. Get a stud (or two) in FA! I\'d sit Allen. He plays like he\'s stupid. He becomes on fire a game or two a year, but he\'s frequently out of position, he doesn\'t stick guys at the line (though he\'s ok in pursuit) from what I\'ve seen, and he is mediocre in coverage. I\'m excited about Buckwoldt, but I\'d sit him too if we can get two studs in FA. Until this year I wasn\'t very convinced that the SLB and WLB were that different positions. I realize that there are a few different duties, but on the whole I thought it shouldn\'t be too hard to move guys between the two positions. However, having seen us struggle without a real SLB this season, I\'m starting to think I was wrong about the interchangeability of OLBs.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

01-04-2005, 05:34 PM	#12
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	IF we do draft a Lb.... Jkool, I\'ve always stereo-typed them as WLB is the speed guy who works well in the open field. Typically the smaller of the 3. The SLB has a TE to contend with most of the time, needs to be better at shedding blocks and has more coverage responsibilites. He\'s typically a bit larger than the WLB. But those stereotypes are old school philosophies and may not fit well in todays versatile LB league. I\'m sure there are dozens of examples that contradict those stereotypes now. I do think that if you put Colby on the strongside they\'ll just run right over him all day. Allen was moved to the SLB because of his strength versus the run and hitting ability. He was a little slow picking up the system but has played much better of late. He\'s looked better in the last 4 games than Hodge has in his 3 year career. I\'d still bring in a solid vet. Allen would be at worst a good back-up. I\'d buy Hodge a bus ticket.

01-04-2005, 05:49 PM	#13
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	IF we do draft a Lb.... agree with Who and BMG completely on this one. The draft is not the place we\'re going to START improving. While I agree that we\'ve done VERY poorly in the FA the last several years, I am going to cross my fingers that this year we will have learned our lesson. Kool, I agree Free Agency IS the place to improve, but WHEN have we ever done it? I know you are holding on to hope that common sense will prevail and they will do what is necessary but this is Tom Benson and Mickey Loomis. THEY WILL NOT spend the money necessary to get a big name free agent in here at any position. Mediocre guys we can get cheap(Orlando Ruff and Brian Young come to mind), is the way they always go in free agency. I don\'t think anyone is trying to say we should use the draft to improve our team only, what they are saying is, hey we know we aren\'t gonna spend the money to get anyone, so who can we get in the draft. And before I get a hundred posts about Young, I love his heart and effort. He is just not an impact DT. May have a lot to do with who is playing next to him, but quick tell me who plays next to Kevin Williams in Minny? Rod Coleman in Atlanta(who we didn\'t try to get)? McFarland in Tampa? They\'re still impact guys with nobodies next to them.

01-04-2005, 06:02 PM	#14
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	IF we do draft a Lb.... FA is to improve QUICK- QUICK FIX. Draft is building for the future. One, I don\'t see us getting a LB in round one... snagging an OT is the way to go there. We need a D Coach... one who knows what he is doing and can get us to stop a damn screen.

01-04-2005, 06:22 PM	#15
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	IF we do draft a Lb.... Why is it people always start talking about the draft the second the season ends? You know how the Saints are going to improve immediately? Through free agency. You want a starting linebacker who can make an impact? He\'s already playing he\'s not coming from the draft. Because we never get any impact guys in free agency and we have in the draft(Grant,Mcalister,Smith,Karney,Bockwoldt,Bentely...shall i go on?)

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01-04-2005, 06:32 PM	#16
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	IF we do draft a Lb.... And before I get a hundred posts about Young, I love his heart and effort. He is just not an impact DT. May have a lot to do with who is playing next to him, but quick tell me who plays next to Kevin Williams in Minny? Rod Coleman in Atlanta(who we didn\'t try to get)? McFarland in Tampa? They\'re still impact guys with nobodies next to them. The whole thing about 2-gapper (or Nose tackle) is they consume two blockers and allow the other guy to shoot gaps. McFarland (2-gapper) had crappy stats and Sapp (1-gapper) got all the glory. I\'m not saying Young is an A-plus stud, but I\'d hardly call him a mediocre player. Put him next to a healthy McFarland type fat-body and watch him stud-out.

01-04-2005, 06:37 PM	#17
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	IF we do draft a Lb.... right now and understand i said right now i like our linebackers. i love bockwoldt n wouldnt sit him. the kid is going to be good in this league. why people keep wanting to bench guys for players with better speed or size or what is perceived to be the perfect lb i cant guess. noone here but just everyone it seems in the league. the kid can play and is fast as hell. theres just no way i\'d bench that kid unless his play was bad. i think right now going into the ofseason we need o-line help. we need a stud.
	Your team stinks

01-04-2005, 06:40 PM	#18
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	IF we do draft a Lb.... right now and understand i said right now i like our linebackers. i love bockwoldt n wouldnt sit him. the kid is going to be good in this league. why people keep wanting to bench guys for players with better speed or size or what is perceived to be the perfect lb i cant guess. noone here but just everyone it seems in the league. the kid can play and is fast as hell. theres just no way i\'d bench that kid unless his play was bad. i think right now going into the ofseason we need o-line help. we need a stud. Any chance that Brown guy , tackle from OU will be there when we pick?

01-04-2005, 06:52 PM	#19
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	IF we do draft a Lb.... I am going to cross my fingers that this year we will have learned our lesson. Congratulations JKool - you just created the slogan for every Saints fan under the Haslett era... hell it would even work for the organization itself.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

01-04-2005, 07:26 PM	#20
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	IF we do draft a Lb.... I\'m not sure I\'m following some of the rationale here: we have never made good use of free agency, so we need to put all of our eggs in the draft basket? We continue to ignore free agents at our peril. If we don\'t make any meaningful moves in free agency (by this I mean a real impact player), there is no need to act surprised next season when we are watching other teams in the playoffs. If this organization refuses to pay for a quality impact player, then it should scream to the fans that the organization isn\'t committed to winning.
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