What changes would you make?

Jack Vegas · 12-08-2014, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Mardigras9

Unbelievable. Clearly there is a need for a major "shakeup" in multiple areas ON the field. The fans have been riding a awesome positive wave essentially since Payton came (minus the bountygate year). So the first time now that we see serious team issues, it's throw the captain off the ship?
I DO NOT agree.

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it, but take a good hard look at the playcalling and offensive philosophies we've seen the last two years. This is not the same man who won us a Super Bowl. He's not innovative anymore. He doesn't have the same edge.

Remember the coach who came in in 2005 and promptly traded Donte Stallworth and replaced him with a 7th-round draft pick, was not afraid to make the tough veteran cuts and built one of the most unique offenses the league has ever seen. Can you honestly say that is the same Sean Payton we are looking at now?

Love Sean. LOVE HIM. For real. But there comes a time for everyone to move on. Maybe now is his time. No hate here, just a realization that now is now 5 years ago, or even 3 years ago. This org needs new blood.

dizzle88 · 12-08-2014, 11:23 AM

We were actually better in the bounty gate year than we are now lol

Payton will most likely stay (I wouldn't be totally against him getting fired)

We need a head coach that will bring toughness to this team, we have been a finesse team for as long as I can remember

Best I can hope for at the minute is Carmichael will take over play calling, but SP is too stubborn to see he is ONE of the many things that's hurting our team

blackangold · 12-08-2014, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

We were actually better in the bounty gate year than we are now lol

Payton will most likely stay (I wouldn't be totally against him getting fired)

We need a head coach that will bring toughness to this team, we have been a finesse team for as long as I can remember

Best I can hope for at the minute is Carmichael will take over play calling, but SP is too stubborn to see he is ONE of the many things that's hurting our team

We were not a finesse team when GW was here. They were ruthlessly aggressive, and some would say it was because of the bounty but that's bull****. GW took a group of average to below average players and made them work. Those teams would fight get knocked down only to get right back up and fight some more. Ruthless aggression is what this team lacks. Rob Ryan hasn't brought it, maybe it's because of the position coaches but GW had the same guys too.

http://youtu.be/a4cTsFMgSec?list=UUQ...C79ghg0theWqNg

dizzle88 · 12-08-2014, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

We were not a finesse team when GW was here. They were ruthlessly aggressive, and some would say it was because of the bounty but that's bull****. GW took a group of average to below average players and made them work. Those teams would fight get knocked down only to get right back up and fight some more. Ruthless aggression is what this team lacks. Rob Ryan hasn't brought it, maybe it's because of the position coaches but GW had the same guys too.

http://youtu.be/a4cTsFMgSec?list=UUQ...C79ghg0theWqNg

Very true, I remember in 2010 when Jo-lonn dunbar started at MLB for us and played great.

So many comeback wins those seasons.

jnormand · 12-08-2014, 11:25 AM

Get rid of Payton? I don't agree with that. I think changes are needed but replacing the HC because of one bad season is ridiculous. I'd rather the Saints not turn into the mess that is the Raiders.

Second, I can't stand Harbaugh. He's annoying and he throws fits and temper tantrums like a damn baby all the time. Just my opinion.

Lastly why is everyone complaining about Lofton all the time? The guy had 17 tackles yesterday and leads the team in tackles. He's got 127 on the season with three games left. Give the guy a break. Jesus.

Danno · 12-08-2014, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by jnormand

Lastly why is everyone complaining about Lofton all the time? The guy had 17 tackles yesterday and leads the team in tackles. He's got 127 on the season with three games left. Give the guy a break. Jesus.

Because he's poor in coverage and also misses a lot of tackles.
But we could do worse, much worse.

I think Lofton would be a good fit in a true 3-4 as a Mike where his coverage responsibilities are limited. Also flanking him with some speed would surely help.

He's a keeper, but I'd say he's pretty close to a 2-down LB. He's also rated as the 2nd worst defender on our team, just ahead of Vaccaro.

saintsfan1976 · 12-08-2014, 11:37 AM

You don't (*edit*) fire Payton. You fire the ones who are making him look bad.

Again, let's see if he has the balls to do it.

I still remember him holding on to Gary Gibbs a couple seasons too long...

brees84 · 12-08-2014, 11:39 AM

I don't have problem with Harbaugh's temper and personality. I have problem with his coaching and play calling (roman). You will be calling for Payton after first Harbaugh game.
Give me their positional coaches and we can talk business.

NinthWardJay · 12-08-2014, 11:40 AM

I just had this conversation with a friend of mines.
I believe that unless being worthy of being mentioned in the Hall of Fame a Head Coach has a shelf life of around 10 years before the NFL will begin to catch up to their system. Sean is coming up on 10 years and it seems like that explosive offense just isnt explosive anymore save for a few games here or there.

Also I would definetely change training camp. I felt like some bad was going to happen when I was hearing about other teams putting in work at training camp but every time i heard about the Saints camp it was always regarding a "Quarterback challenge" or these "Prank Wars" between Payton and Brees. From the outside looking in i felt like camp just wasnt being taken as serious as it should have been

Mardigras9 · 12-08-2014, 11:49 AM

I felt like some bad was going to happen when I was hearing about other teams putting in work at training camp but every time i heard about the Saints camp it was always regarding a "Quarterback challenge" or these "Prank Wars" between Payton and Brees. From the outside looking in i felt like camp just wasnt being taken as serious as it should have been

Great point. I think the team believed all the hype, just like we all did. Took for granted the dedication to the fundamentals needed for a strong base. Of course, injuries have been a killer also.
BUT, we still have a chance at the division and us winning it is better than any of the alternatives. Time to focus on a Chicago team that is in just as much turmoil.

12-08-2014, 11:55 AM	#1
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: What changes would you make? Originally Posted by Mardigras9 Unbelievable. Clearly there is a need for a major "shakeup" in multiple areas ON the field. The fans have been riding a awesome positive wave essentially since Payton came (minus the bountygate year). So the first time now that we see serious team issues, it's throw the captain off the ship? I DO NOT agree. That's your opinion and you're welcome to it, but take a good hard look at the playcalling and offensive philosophies we've seen the last two years. This is not the same man who won us a Super Bowl. He's not innovative anymore. He doesn't have the same edge. Remember the coach who came in in 2005 and promptly traded Donte Stallworth and replaced him with a 7th-round draft pick, was not afraid to make the tough veteran cuts and built one of the most unique offenses the league has ever seen. Can you honestly say that is the same Sean Payton we are looking at now? Love Sean. LOVE HIM. For real. But there comes a time for everyone to move on. Maybe now is his time. No hate here, just a realization that now is now 5 years ago, or even 3 years ago. This org needs new blood. dizzle88 and teddybarexxx like this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

12-08-2014, 11:23 AM	#2
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,534	Re: What changes would you make? We were actually better in the bounty gate year than we are now lol Payton will most likely stay (I wouldn't be totally against him getting fired) We need a head coach that will bring toughness to this team, we have been a finesse team for as long as I can remember Best I can hope for at the minute is Carmichael will take over play calling, but SP is too stubborn to see he is ONE of the many things that's hurting our team

12-08-2014, 11:51 AM	#3
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: What changes would you make? Originally Posted by dizzle88 We were actually better in the bounty gate year than we are now lol Payton will most likely stay (I wouldn't be totally against him getting fired) We need a head coach that will bring toughness to this team, we have been a finesse team for as long as I can remember Best I can hope for at the minute is Carmichael will take over play calling, but SP is too stubborn to see he is ONE of the many things that's hurting our team We were not a finesse team when GW was here. They were ruthlessly aggressive, and some would say it was because of the bounty but that's bull****. GW took a group of average to below average players and made them work. Those teams would fight get knocked down only to get right back up and fight some more. Ruthless aggression is what this team lacks. Rob Ryan hasn't brought it, maybe it's because of the position coaches but GW had the same guys too. http://youtu.be/a4cTsFMgSec?list=UUQ...C79ghg0theWqNg Rugby Saint II, dizzle88 and Beastmode like this.

12-08-2014, 11:59 AM	#4
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,534	Re: What changes would you make? Originally Posted by blackangold We were not a finesse team when GW was here. They were ruthlessly aggressive, and some would say it was because of the bounty but that's bull****. GW took a group of average to below average players and made them work. Those teams would fight get knocked down only to get right back up and fight some more. Ruthless aggression is what this team lacks. Rob Ryan hasn't brought it, maybe it's because of the position coaches but GW had the same guys too. http://youtu.be/a4cTsFMgSec?list=UUQ...C79ghg0theWqNg Very true, I remember in 2010 when Jo-lonn dunbar started at MLB for us and played great. So many comeback wins those seasons.

12-08-2014, 11:25 AM	#5
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,759	Re: What changes would you make? Get rid of Payton? I don't agree with that. I think changes are needed but replacing the HC because of one bad season is ridiculous. I'd rather the Saints not turn into the mess that is the Raiders. Second, I can't stand Harbaugh. He's annoying and he throws fits and temper tantrums like a damn baby all the time. Just my opinion. Lastly why is everyone complaining about Lofton all the time? The guy had 17 tackles yesterday and leads the team in tackles. He's got 127 on the season with three games left. Give the guy a break. Jesus. SaintFanQ, Mr.Riaton and VegasSaint9 like this.

12-08-2014, 11:35 AM	#6
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,756	Re: What changes would you make? Originally Posted by jnormand Lastly why is everyone complaining about Lofton all the time? The guy had 17 tackles yesterday and leads the team in tackles. He's got 127 on the season with three games left. Give the guy a break. Jesus. Because he's poor in coverage and also misses a lot of tackles. But we could do worse, much worse. I think Lofton would be a good fit in a true 3-4 as a Mike where his coverage responsibilities are limited. Also flanking him with some speed would surely help. He's a keeper, but I'd say he's pretty close to a 2-down LB. He's also rated as the 2nd worst defender on our team, just ahead of Vaccaro. lumm0x, halloween 65 and dnealj like this.

12-08-2014, 11:37 AM	#7
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 11,021 Blog Entries: 3	Re: What changes would you make? You don't (edit) fire Payton. You fire the ones who are making him look bad. Again, let's see if he has the balls to do it. I still remember him holding on to Gary Gibbs a couple seasons too long...
	Last edited by saintsfan1976; 12-08-2014 at 11:42 AM..

12-08-2014, 11:39 AM	#8
brees84 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 3,015	Re: What changes would you make? I don't have problem with Harbaugh's temper and personality. I have problem with his coaching and play calling (roman). You will be calling for Payton after first Harbaugh game. Give me their positional coaches and we can talk business.
brees84 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 3,015

12-08-2014, 11:40 AM	#9
NinthWardJay Captain Swag Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New Orleans/Atlanta Posts: 189	Re: What changes would you make? I just had this conversation with a friend of mines. I believe that unless being worthy of being mentioned in the Hall of Fame a Head Coach has a shelf life of around 10 years before the NFL will begin to catch up to their system. Sean is coming up on 10 years and it seems like that explosive offense just isnt explosive anymore save for a few games here or there. Also I would definetely change training camp. I felt like some bad was going to happen when I was hearing about other teams putting in work at training camp but every time i heard about the Saints camp it was always regarding a "Quarterback challenge" or these "Prank Wars" between Payton and Brees. From the outside looking in i felt like camp just wasnt being taken as serious as it should have been
	Who Dat..... Drew Dat!!!! Man i love my SAINTS!!!

12-08-2014, 11:49 AM	#10
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: What changes would you make? I felt like some bad was going to happen when I was hearing about other teams putting in work at training camp but every time i heard about the Saints camp it was always regarding a "Quarterback challenge" or these "Prank Wars" between Payton and Brees. From the outside looking in i felt like camp just wasnt being taken as serious as it should have been Great point. I think the team believed all the hype, just like we all did. Took for granted the dedication to the fundamentals needed for a strong base. Of course, injuries have been a killer also. BUT, we still have a chance at the division and us winning it is better than any of the alternatives. Time to focus on a Chicago team that is in just as much turmoil.

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