Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year

saintswhodi · 01-14-2005, 10:12 AM

Options are something Howard has as well..We don\'t own any rights to him...Even if we signed him and tried to trade him..he doesn\'t have to comply..(Owens

Owens wasn\'t franchised shadow so this is a COMPLETELY different situation. He had a clause in his contract where he could opt out and he did. The 49ers fought it saying his agent didn\'t do file it in time and tried to trade him to Baltimore. It backfired cause the league sided with Owens and he was free to go elsewhere. San Fran fearing they would get nothing agreed to let him be traded to the Eagles for Brandon Whiting? huh Does that sound like a deal they would make if their hand wasn\'t forced? Aslo they were in a cost cutting mode and let Garcia roll too. So this situation is completely different and if Howard was tagged he could not refuse the tag or to be traded. He would have to sit out and whatever compensation the opposing team gave for him would be returned to them. I am not trying to argue with you, just making sure you can see hwo different the situation is. The only situation that is even comparable is the Buffalo Atlanta deal for Price.

shadowdrinker · 01-14-2005, 03:00 PM

Ok..answer me this..is Howard Franchised?..no...is he signed?..no...

saintswhodi · 01-14-2005, 03:11 PM

One, the free agent period isn\'t until March so why would they franchise him now if A), they are trying to work out a deal to keep him or B) they are trying to get together a deal to franchise him. The NFL playoffs are still going on man. How do they know the Rams wouldn\'t want him or the vikes or the Jets if they lose Abraham or anyone? NO free agent is being signed or tagged until after the Superbowl. Come on man, you know better than that. You are a very bright guy but I think you are being overly difficult for no reason. Noone said any of this was 100% gonna happen, we said it is a scenario we would like to see, and like I have shown you is very possible. Just stop being difficult man, it\'s unnecessary.

shadowdrinker · 01-14-2005, 03:19 PM

your right bro..I am bieng difficult...I read the views that swing the other way from my own..and..yes...it\'s true...we could do something as far as trading him goes... and get some big time signings, and all that,

I just can\'t force it in my head that it will happen...

I feel like a dog that has been beaten too many times..and can\'t seem to trust anyone who is involved with the franchise...only thing I have seen them do..is screw up chance after chance to make some positive changes...and leave me, with my tail between my legs,wondering why the franchise continues to beat down thier faithful pup, and why year after year, i show my belly..knowing what is coming...

ScottyRo · 01-14-2005, 03:40 PM

Since we\'re discussing all of this and it is bound to come up several more times, here is a great article about how the franchise player system works. It is based on last year, but to my knowledge there have been no changes to the rules - probably only the dates may change.

http://www.nfl.com/freeagency

saintswhodi · 01-14-2005, 03:43 PM

Bro, I am with you. We are ALL like whipped dogs. We have those that accept the status quo for fear of getting worse, those that know that only complete failure will bring change, and those that are eternally optimistic everything will just simply click for this franchise one day. I have used the kicked dog analogy before to describe myself as a Saints fan so I feel what you are saying. But maybe, just maybe, just this once, they will do something right and smart. Maybe, even if it just gtes us a second round pick this year and next, they won\'t let Howard walk for nothing. Maybe just maybe, they have targeted free agents they will pursue when they can, and they will be impact players. History says it is unlikely, and I was going down the road of just negative negative negative about this franchise, but I can\'t anymore. I criticize what is, not what I think they will or won\'t do. I criticize Brooks cause I know what he can and can\'t do. Same with Haz, Venturi, and McCarthy. I criticize Benson cause I know he is a greedy snake blackmailing the city. But what I don\'t know is that we will totally gaffe up free agency and the draft yet again. After 6 years they have to get better at it right? Well, off my soapbox. Just meant I understand where you are coming from, and you have every right to feel that way. Peace.

ScottyRo · 01-14-2005, 03:46 PM

If you\'re worried about Loomis screwing things up, then worry about him not franchising Howard. That is the only way we will either keep him or get some form of compensation for him. I doubt we\'ll re-sign him prior to the deadline for franchising players so it\'s the only option.

saintswhodi · 01-14-2005, 03:54 PM

Truly. The only way we can get anything in return is to franchise him. If we just wanna keep him, we can apply the transition tag and match any offer. But I am pretty sure we can\'t afford that cause a team with lots of cap room could just pay him through the nose and make it impossible for us to match. I thought we still get some type of compensation for that though? I could be wrong.

spkb25 · 01-14-2005, 04:14 PM

i believe they put the transition tag on him which i think means they can match any offer from another team but if they dont they get compensation. to me to get compensation would be the best idea if we have to loose them

ScottyRo · 01-14-2005, 04:21 PM

What determines a transition player?

His club must offer a minimum of the average of the top 10 salaries of last season at the player\'s position or 120 percent of the player\'s previous year\'s salary, whichever is greater. A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no compensation.

http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/qa

01-14-2005, 10:12 AM	#21
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year Options are something Howard has as well..We don\'t own any rights to him...Even if we signed him and tried to trade him..he doesn\'t have to comply..(Owens Owens wasn\'t franchised shadow so this is a COMPLETELY different situation. He had a clause in his contract where he could opt out and he did. The 49ers fought it saying his agent didn\'t do file it in time and tried to trade him to Baltimore. It backfired cause the league sided with Owens and he was free to go elsewhere. San Fran fearing they would get nothing agreed to let him be traded to the Eagles for Brandon Whiting? huh Does that sound like a deal they would make if their hand wasn\'t forced? Aslo they were in a cost cutting mode and let Garcia roll too. So this situation is completely different and if Howard was tagged he could not refuse the tag or to be traded. He would have to sit out and whatever compensation the opposing team gave for him would be returned to them. I am not trying to argue with you, just making sure you can see hwo different the situation is. The only situation that is even comparable is the Buffalo Atlanta deal for Price.

01-14-2005, 03:00 PM	#22
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year Ok..answer me this..is Howard Franchised?..no...is he signed?..no...
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

01-14-2005, 03:11 PM	#23
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year One, the free agent period isn\'t until March so why would they franchise him now if A), they are trying to work out a deal to keep him or B) they are trying to get together a deal to franchise him. The NFL playoffs are still going on man. How do they know the Rams wouldn\'t want him or the vikes or the Jets if they lose Abraham or anyone? NO free agent is being signed or tagged until after the Superbowl. Come on man, you know better than that. You are a very bright guy but I think you are being overly difficult for no reason. Noone said any of this was 100% gonna happen, we said it is a scenario we would like to see, and like I have shown you is very possible. Just stop being difficult man, it\'s unnecessary.

01-14-2005, 03:19 PM	#24
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year your right bro..I am bieng difficult...I read the views that swing the other way from my own..and..yes...it\'s true...we could do something as far as trading him goes... and get some big time signings, and all that, I just can\'t force it in my head that it will happen... I feel like a dog that has been beaten too many times..and can\'t seem to trust anyone who is involved with the franchise...only thing I have seen them do..is screw up chance after chance to make some positive changes...and leave me, with my tail between my legs,wondering why the franchise continues to beat down thier faithful pup, and why year after year, i show my belly..knowing what is coming...
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

01-14-2005, 03:40 PM	#25
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year Since we\'re discussing all of this and it is bound to come up several more times, here is a great article about how the franchise player system works. It is based on last year, but to my knowledge there have been no changes to the rules - probably only the dates may change. http://www.nfl.com/freeagency

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01-14-2005, 03:43 PM	#26
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year Bro, I am with you. We are ALL like whipped dogs. We have those that accept the status quo for fear of getting worse, those that know that only complete failure will bring change, and those that are eternally optimistic everything will just simply click for this franchise one day. I have used the kicked dog analogy before to describe myself as a Saints fan so I feel what you are saying. But maybe, just maybe, just this once, they will do something right and smart. Maybe, even if it just gtes us a second round pick this year and next, they won\'t let Howard walk for nothing. Maybe just maybe, they have targeted free agents they will pursue when they can, and they will be impact players. History says it is unlikely, and I was going down the road of just negative negative negative about this franchise, but I can\'t anymore. I criticize what is, not what I think they will or won\'t do. I criticize Brooks cause I know what he can and can\'t do. Same with Haz, Venturi, and McCarthy. I criticize Benson cause I know he is a greedy snake blackmailing the city. But what I don\'t know is that we will totally gaffe up free agency and the draft yet again. After 6 years they have to get better at it right? Well, off my soapbox. Just meant I understand where you are coming from, and you have every right to feel that way. Peace.

01-14-2005, 03:46 PM	#27
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year If you\'re worried about Loomis screwing things up, then worry about him not franchising Howard. That is the only way we will either keep him or get some form of compensation for him. I doubt we\'ll re-sign him prior to the deadline for franchising players so it\'s the only option.

01-14-2005, 03:54 PM	#28
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year Truly. The only way we can get anything in return is to franchise him. If we just wanna keep him, we can apply the transition tag and match any offer. But I am pretty sure we can\'t afford that cause a team with lots of cap room could just pay him through the nose and make it impossible for us to match. I thought we still get some type of compensation for that though? I could be wrong.

01-14-2005, 04:14 PM	#29
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year i believe they put the transition tag on him which i think means they can match any offer from another team but if they dont they get compensation. to me to get compensation would be the best idea if we have to loose them

01-14-2005, 04:21 PM	#30
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year What determines a transition player? His club must offer a minimum of the average of the top 10 salaries of last season at the player\'s position or 120 percent of the player\'s previous year\'s salary, whichever is greater. A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no compensation. http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/qa