Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year

shadowdrinker · 01-13-2005, 08:10 PM

http://www.nola.com/search/index.ssf...11690.xml?nola

FireVenturi · 01-13-2005, 08:17 PM

Yea he\'s gone..but i think we are ok at DE

saintswhodi · 01-13-2005, 08:17 PM

Notice how it says in there the Saints CAN use the franchise tag on him again, but he doesn\'t THINK they will. Notice everyone says sign and trade. Now if you franchise him, then agree to a trade, he is no longer with the team right, and you have traded him like people have been suggesting right? Come on man. It\'s an idea that has merit and IS quite possible. So your suggestion is to let a talented player like Howard walk with no compensation? I find that harder to believe.

shadowdrinker · 01-13-2005, 08:26 PM

It\'s not my suggestion..i didn\'t write the story..

But..the only options otherwise are to

1 pay him a huge amount..including signing bonus..and let them continue to have a 3 man rotation..which I would love..but..they can\'t afford it I fear..

2. pay him a huge signing bonus, and trade him away...

Nah..he\'s gone..

saintswhodi · 01-13-2005, 08:29 PM

You do know if you franchise a player it has nothing to do with a signing bonus right? It has to do with salary, strictly. Buffalo did the exact thing with Peerless Price when they traded him to Atlanta. They franchised him then traded him. We can do the same. I would love for him to stay too but if we keep him, Grant will be gone when his contract is up. Franchising him and trading him is out best option to get something in return. And there is no signing bonus associated with that. Understand now?

FireVenturi · 01-13-2005, 08:30 PM

It\'s not my suggestion..i didn\'t write the story..

But..the only options otherwise are to

1 pay him a huge amount..including signing bonus..and let them continue to have a 3 man rotation..which I would love..but..they can\'t afford it I fear..

2. pay him a huge signing bonus, and trade him away...

Nah..he\'s gone..

what about the Den/Wash deal last year? could we trade him and he work out comp. with his new team?Not being sarcastic...i am asking.

shadowdrinker · 01-13-2005, 08:37 PM

It\'s not my suggestion..i didn\'t write the story..

But..the only options otherwise are to

1 pay him a huge amount..including signing bonus..and let them continue to have a 3 man rotation..which I would love..but..they can\'t afford it I fear..

2. pay him a huge signing bonus, and trade him away...

Nah..he\'s gone..

what about the Den/Wash deal last year? could we trade him and he work out comp. with his new team?Not being sarcastic...i am asking.

It depends on who would want him..and why..He has been injury plauged..and his numbers have gone down..He\'s still a good player..and he\'s young..I doubt that another team would be so desperate though.

shadowdrinker · 01-13-2005, 08:43 PM

You do know if you franchise a player it has nothing to do with a signing bonus right? It has to do with salary, strictly. Buffalo did the exact thing with Peerless Price when they traded him to Atlanta. They franchised him then traded him. We can do the same. I would love for him to stay too but if we keep him, Grant will be gone when his contract is up. Franchising him and trading him is out best option to get something in return. And there is no signing bonus associated with that. Understand now?

You honestly think he will sign another contract without a signing bonus?..really?..

You think his agent and he would go for that?

Would Benson tell him..\'\'I am really in need of your help Darren..let us sign you ..so we can trade you off..and..no signing bonus..is that ok?..because we can\'t afford to pay you your bonus..and that of the new additon we will get for you..\'\'

yeah..thats possible..haha

saintswhodi · 01-13-2005, 08:50 PM

Okay, I am trying real hard to not be condescending but you obviously don\'t understand the franchise tag. SO let me explain it. You didn\'t know you could tag a player more than once, and you can. Also, the franchise tag is basically a guarantee, it is not a contract. Nothing is signed unless the player signs that one year tender like Howard did last year. All the franchise tag does is prevent other teams from going after your unrestricted free agent without working out compensation for you should you choose to let that player sign with that team. Hence the term franchise \"tag.\" It is not a franchise \"contract.\" It is not up to a player or agent if the team is \"allowed\" to put a tag on the player, the team can do it if they wants. That player does not have to sign the franchise offer, and the team loses its tag for a year. That\'s how it works. Now does this help you understand? If you like, I can google the franchise rules and let you read them. I tried to condense it so you could get a better understanding. I just noticed everything you were sayign showed you didn\'t understand the tag and how it worked. I hope this was helpful.

[Edited on 14/1/2005 by saintswhodi]

shadowdrinker · 01-13-2005, 09:10 PM

Okay, I am trying real hard to not be condescending but you obviously don\'t understand the franchise tag. SO let me explain it. You didn\'t know you could tag a player more than once, and you can. Also, the franchise tag is basically a guarantee, it is not a contract. Nothing is signed unless the player signs that one year tender like Howard did last year. All the franchise tag does is prevent other teams from going after your unrestricted free agent without working out compensation for you should you choose to let that player sign with that team. Hence the term franchise \"tag.\" It is not a franchise \"contract.\" It is not up to a player or agent if the team is \"allowed\" to put a tag on the player, the team can do it if they wants. That player does not have to sign the franchise offer, and the team loses its tag for a year. That\'s how it works. Now does this help you understand? If you like, I can google the franchise rules and let you read them. I tried to condense it so you could get a better understanding. I just noticed everything you were sayign showed you didn\'t understand the tag and how it worked. I hope this was helpful.

[Edited on 14/1/2005 by saintswhodi]

haha

ok..first off..you must understand there are different kind of Franchise tags..exclusive..and non exclusive...Howard was a non exclusive tag...which means he recieved the minimum of the average of the top 5 players in his position..or a 20 % salary increase...whichever is greater...he retains the right to negotiate with other clubs...now..the saints could..match the offer and retain him..or recieve 2 first round draft picks in compensation...if the original club chooses not to match...

when I said you can\'t tag them twice..that\'s not untrue, but it is situational..

Each club is permitted one franchise designation in any year of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. If a franchise player signs a multiyear contract with his current club between Feb. 25 and March 17 at 4:00 p.m. ET, the club retains its franchise player designation for the following league year. After March 17, if the player signs a multiyear contract while under this designation, the club exhausts its franchise player rights for each year of that contract unless it matched another club\'s offer for that player, in which case the designation is used only for that year. Any club that elected not to use its franchise player designation in 2004 retains franchise designation rights for 2005 and subsequent years of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, provided the club did not exhaust those rights from a previously signed franchise player.

We could go back and forth all day..but..the fact that they aren\'t going to franchise and trade him should be clear enough...why wouldn\'t they sign another top tier free agent..and do the same...?

I don\'t see how franchising a player makes him more attractive to another team..who has a cap like all the other teams..but..whatever

01-13-2005, 08:10 PM	#1
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year http://www.nola.com/search/index.ssf...11690.xml?nola
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

01-13-2005, 08:17 PM	#2
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year Yea he\'s gone..but i think we are ok at DE

01-13-2005, 08:17 PM	#3
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year Notice how it says in there the Saints CAN use the franchise tag on him again, but he doesn\'t THINK they will. Notice everyone says sign and trade. Now if you franchise him, then agree to a trade, he is no longer with the team right, and you have traded him like people have been suggesting right? Come on man. It\'s an idea that has merit and IS quite possible. So your suggestion is to let a talented player like Howard walk with no compensation? I find that harder to believe.

01-13-2005, 08:26 PM	#4
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year It\'s not my suggestion..i didn\'t write the story.. But..the only options otherwise are to 1 pay him a huge amount..including signing bonus..and let them continue to have a 3 man rotation..which I would love..but..they can\'t afford it I fear.. 2. pay him a huge signing bonus, and trade him away... Nah..he\'s gone..
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

01-13-2005, 08:29 PM	#5
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year You do know if you franchise a player it has nothing to do with a signing bonus right? It has to do with salary, strictly. Buffalo did the exact thing with Peerless Price when they traded him to Atlanta. They franchised him then traded him. We can do the same. I would love for him to stay too but if we keep him, Grant will be gone when his contract is up. Franchising him and trading him is out best option to get something in return. And there is no signing bonus associated with that. Understand now?

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01-13-2005, 08:30 PM	#6
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year It\'s not my suggestion..i didn\'t write the story.. But..the only options otherwise are to 1 pay him a huge amount..including signing bonus..and let them continue to have a 3 man rotation..which I would love..but..they can\'t afford it I fear.. 2. pay him a huge signing bonus, and trade him away... Nah..he\'s gone.. what about the Den/Wash deal last year? could we trade him and he work out comp. with his new team?Not being sarcastic...i am asking.

01-13-2005, 08:37 PM	#7
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year It\'s not my suggestion..i didn\'t write the story.. But..the only options otherwise are to 1 pay him a huge amount..including signing bonus..and let them continue to have a 3 man rotation..which I would love..but..they can\'t afford it I fear.. 2. pay him a huge signing bonus, and trade him away... Nah..he\'s gone.. what about the Den/Wash deal last year? could we trade him and he work out comp. with his new team?Not being sarcastic...i am asking. It depends on who would want him..and why..He has been injury plauged..and his numbers have gone down..He\'s still a good player..and he\'s young..I doubt that another team would be so desperate though.
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

01-13-2005, 08:43 PM	#8
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year You do know if you franchise a player it has nothing to do with a signing bonus right? It has to do with salary, strictly. Buffalo did the exact thing with Peerless Price when they traded him to Atlanta. They franchised him then traded him. We can do the same. I would love for him to stay too but if we keep him, Grant will be gone when his contract is up. Franchising him and trading him is out best option to get something in return. And there is no signing bonus associated with that. Understand now? You honestly think he will sign another contract without a signing bonus?..really?.. You think his agent and he would go for that? Would Benson tell him..\'\'I am really in need of your help Darren..let us sign you ..so we can trade you off..and..no signing bonus..is that ok?..because we can\'t afford to pay you your bonus..and that of the new additon we will get for you..\'\' yeah..thats possible..haha
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

01-13-2005, 08:50 PM	#9
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year Okay, I am trying real hard to not be condescending but you obviously don\'t understand the franchise tag. SO let me explain it. You didn\'t know you could tag a player more than once, and you can. Also, the franchise tag is basically a guarantee, it is not a contract. Nothing is signed unless the player signs that one year tender like Howard did last year. All the franchise tag does is prevent other teams from going after your unrestricted free agent without working out compensation for you should you choose to let that player sign with that team. Hence the term franchise \"tag.\" It is not a franchise \"contract.\" It is not up to a player or agent if the team is \"allowed\" to put a tag on the player, the team can do it if they wants. That player does not have to sign the franchise offer, and the team loses its tag for a year. That\'s how it works. Now does this help you understand? If you like, I can google the franchise rules and let you read them. I tried to condense it so you could get a better understanding. I just noticed everything you were sayign showed you didn\'t understand the tag and how it worked. I hope this was helpful. [Edited on 14/1/2005 by saintswhodi]

01-13-2005, 09:10 PM	#10
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Darren Howard, and why he won't be a Saint next year Okay, I am trying real hard to not be condescending but you obviously don\'t understand the franchise tag. SO let me explain it. You didn\'t know you could tag a player more than once, and you can. Also, the franchise tag is basically a guarantee, it is not a contract. Nothing is signed unless the player signs that one year tender like Howard did last year. All the franchise tag does is prevent other teams from going after your unrestricted free agent without working out compensation for you should you choose to let that player sign with that team. Hence the term franchise \"tag.\" It is not a franchise \"contract.\" It is not up to a player or agent if the team is \"allowed\" to put a tag on the player, the team can do it if they wants. That player does not have to sign the franchise offer, and the team loses its tag for a year. That\'s how it works. Now does this help you understand? If you like, I can google the franchise rules and let you read them. I tried to condense it so you could get a better understanding. I just noticed everything you were sayign showed you didn\'t understand the tag and how it worked. I hope this was helpful. [Edited on 14/1/2005 by saintswhodi] haha ok..first off..you must understand there are different kind of Franchise tags..exclusive..and non exclusive...Howard was a non exclusive tag...which means he recieved the minimum of the average of the top 5 players in his position..or a 20 % salary increase...whichever is greater...he retains the right to negotiate with other clubs...now..the saints could..match the offer and retain him..or recieve 2 first round draft picks in compensation...if the original club chooses not to match... when I said you can\'t tag them twice..that\'s not untrue, but it is situational.. Each club is permitted one franchise designation in any year of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. If a franchise player signs a multiyear contract with his current club between Feb. 25 and March 17 at 4:00 p.m. ET, the club retains its franchise player designation for the following league year. After March 17, if the player signs a multiyear contract while under this designation, the club exhausts its franchise player rights for each year of that contract unless it matched another club\'s offer for that player, in which case the designation is used only for that year. Any club that elected not to use its franchise player designation in 2004 retains franchise designation rights for 2005 and subsequent years of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, provided the club did not exhaust those rights from a previously signed franchise player. We could go back and forth all day..but..the fact that they aren\'t going to franchise and trade him should be clear enough...why wouldn\'t they sign another top tier free agent..and do the same...? I don\'t see how franchising a player makes him more attractive to another team..who has a cap like all the other teams..but..whatever
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517