WhoDat

I dunno Gator, I think Vick is going to be around for a long time... haunting the Saints.

billyh1026

IMHO AB needs a few basic things and I\'ll just list 2.
1. He needs to make better decisions on the fly. Not really even decisions. It\'s things he\'s been taught but doesn\'t do. i.e. ummmmm chunk the ball out of bounds when you\'re outside of the tackle...no need to take the sack.
2. Admit his limitations (especially to himself). Meaning...if you\'re hurt all you do is hurt your team by playing when you\'re not able to. Which was painfully obvious.
Having said that....I just think a lot of AB\'s probs could be helped if the coaches used his abilities. He\'s not a pure pocket passer. Never will be. Get the guy moving a bit. a la Jeff Garcia. I\'m not saying run run run him, but for pete\'s sake get the guy mobile from time to time.

Dean Vernon Wormer: Mr. Hoover, president of Delta house? One point six; four C's and an F. A fine example you set! Daniel Simpson Day... HAS no grade point average. All courses incomplete. Mr. Blu - MR. BLUTARSKY... ZERO POINT ZERO.
John 'Bluto' Blutarsky: Christ. Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the f@$%ing Peace Corps.

WhoDat

I complete agree with that.

saintz08

After this year , Vick has a bullseye on his back . He is going to be the player in the NFL that defenses want to hit and hit hard . Should be interesting to see ..

billyh1026

\" He is going to be the player in the NFL that defenses want to hit and hit hard . Should be interesting to see ..\"

Sounds like every QB to me. I do agree that it seems Vick will be more of a target then others. Only because he\'ll put himself into position to take the hits....like the smoking shot Brian Dawkins gave him in Philly.

saintz08

It is the Steve Young saga all over again . Young made so many linebackers and lineman miss him that when they saw him they were bringing the pain on that hit . I think the term is \"softening them up \" . It always seemed like defenders were giving Young a little extra something with each hit .

WhoDat

Hey Saintfan,

Pak recently posted an article from SaintsReport.com in which Sean Salisbury made comments about the draft and what it takes to be a player in the league. Tell me if any of this sounds like what I\'ve said about Brooks. I think it all applies directly to Brooks and Haslett.

\"How can you miss on a player in the upper rounds? According to Salisbury, it’s usually a matter of \'falling in love\' with a prospect without enough reasons to do so. Football instincts, heart and mental preparation are factors that are hard to evaluate, but which are critical to performing in the NFL.\" While we didn\'t draft Brooks, does this sound like it applies to Brooks? Don\'t you think the coaches have \"fallen in love\" with Brooks?

How about \'Salisbury also adheres to the adage that “potential gets coaches fired.\' At the next level some guys get in over their head. Ultimately, it’s the mental demands of the game that separate the real players from the guys who have to find other work. \" If they don\'t perform damn well next year then potential will get Haslett fired.

\"As to the art of scouting, Salisbury says it basically comes down to matching the player with the team and what you want to do. A great player on one team might not shine on another...\" Does Brooks match well with what the Saints are trying to do on offense?

I don\'t care what you think about analysts. Salisbury played the game and now he works analyzing it. The guy has to garner at least some respect. What he says is very interesting, and I draw a lot of parallels to the Haslett/Brooks situation.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

saintfan

You only see what you want to see WhoDat. You only hear what you want to hear. It\'s understandable, and thats why we\'re all hooked on sports. You\'re taking something not pointed at Brooks OR Haz by your own admission and steering it that way. I can surely understand your passion for the game and for our team, but sometimes we we fall \"in\" or \"out\" with a particular coach or player. When that happens it\'s very difficult to see the forest for the trees.

As I have said all along with regards to Aaron Brooks, what I see there is a VERY talented YOUNG MAN who, if given the time and with proper guidance, has the ability to be very good for a very long time. Neither of the two QB\'s that will be in the superbowl are young. It took time to develope both of them didn\'t it? Men don\'t just step into the league and become instant winners. Sure, there have been some exceptions, but it\'s the exception and not the rule. Anyone who expects that is wasting their time dreaming and our time posting nonsense.

Oh sure, some posters want to win it NOW NOW NOW without regards to what might happen down the road. I understand that too. I\'m just not so quick on the trigger. Let me ask those screaming for Jake if he would have willed Reed to catch that ball he dropped that would have put us in the playoffs. Let me ask \'em if Jake plays defense too. Get my point? If I was Haz I\'d be pissed too. I don\'t understand why you weren\'t. If I was Brooks I\'d shrug that off and call it \"typical fan reaction\" too. If you were in his shoes wouldn\'t you? If not then tell me why? What I see is a team that averaged just under 30 points a game. So, Brooks gets hurt, the TEAM (yes, I said the TEAM) lost direction, and the Saints didn\'t make the playoffs. While this is painful, it\'s not cause to fire the coach (no, not yet) or throw Jake in the mix. I think the current administration has taken the New Orleans Saints to another level. We\'re not the Cowboys of the 90\'s yet, but that team\'s starting QB didn\'t win the superbowl in his first two years either! Just how many points a game does the team have to score?

The answer to that question is \"a bunch\". The reason that\'s the answer is because our defense, our absolutely terrible defense, couldn\'t stop our grandmothers in wheel chairs. Notice there hasn\'t been much posting about how bad the \"D\" was. Thats because it sucked and we all know it. Some people here say it all boils down to coaching, and to a degree I agree with that, but the players have to be responsible too. Any top notch player in the league will tell you they don\'t need \"coach so and so\" to motivate them.

So, the \"experts\" we have so much faith in, as long as they say what we\'re thinking, can talk all they want about the Saints Offense. They\'re doing that because that\'s the only angle they have with this team. It\'s curious the way the offense played at the end of the year, but the truth (and you know it) is that with ANY kind of defense the Saints would have made the playoffs. You guys can blame Brooks for not making the playoffs all day. You can scream it from the top of the highest building, but that doesn\'t make it true. You can also wrongfully expect a 2nd year starter to shoulder a team if you want, but why would you want to do that? Brooks is learning. We didn\'t give away the farm to sign him either, no matter what some folks would have you belive. Financially the Saints are in a pretty good position.

Finally, let me ask you up front which of those ESPN \"experts\" you believe in. Let\'s get it out now so that as soon as they say something that\'s totally opposite your opinion I can point it out to you. If you wanna hang your hat on Sean Salisbury then fine. Much as you might like to disagree, I think Haz has a better idea about his football team than Sean does. Football, and sports in general, is a soap opera, plain and simple, and we\'re all hooked. The people who generate controversy are, for the most part, paid to do it. It\'s good stuff. It sells.

C'mon Man...

WhoDat

Hey man, I couldn\'t agree with you more about the defense. Remember, we started this thread with the premise that this was about Brooks. I\'m not trying to change your opinion, I\'m just sounding off. I think you\'re doing the same. Likewise, I don\'t want to start talking about the defense in this thread. I know it is THE problem with the Saints. A much much bigger issue than the quarterback position.

Look, I\'m not saying that I\'m a genius or a prophet. I\'m not saying that if Jake Delhomme was given the opportunity to start that he would be the next Joe Montana. But I do know a thing or two about football. For example, I started criticising the defense early. I said the D would do better as a 3-4 with 6 weeks left in the season... give or take. Now they\'re talking about going to the 3-4. Again, I\'m not some brilliant football mastermind. I\'m not claiming to be, but I do know about football.

Now, back to the subject at hand. In your post you said that I only see what I want to see. Actually, I was reading a post by a former player current analyst and all of his quotes sounded like things that I, and a whole slew of others said about Brooks and Haslett. It did jump out at me, surprisingly so.

You also said, \"I can surely understand your passion for the game and for our team, but sometimes we we fall \'in\' or \'out\' with a particular coach or player. When that happens it\'s very difficult to see the forest for the trees.\" Does that statement only apply to fans? Has a coach, let alone a New Orleans Saint coach, never been guilty of this?

Just as you think my criticism of Brooks is extreme, I see your support for him as blinding. You would agree that arguing over a certain point continuously tends to make a person entrenched in their view, would you not? Look at us, we were ready to kill each other a couple of weeks ago and we don\'t really even know each other. My point is, I believe that Haslett has become entrenched in his views about Brooks. He sees physical talent, but not mental mistakes. He sees a strong armed mobile \"young man,\" but ignores his shotty preparation and poor leadership skills. Now, I don\'t want to pertend to know what Haslett is thinking, I\'m just saying that\'s what appears to be going on to me. I hope, for the New Orleans Saints sake, and for Haslett\'s sake, it\'s not. But I fear it is, and eventually it will become all too clear how much damage that way of thinking can do and/or has done.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

saintfan

Let\'s take Jimmy Johnson as an example. He fell in love with Troy Aikman while all the experts were saying Troy didn\'t have the \"smarts\" to be a top notch NFL QB. Can you believe that? Very true. Now in Troy\'s first few years all the \"experts\" were saying \"I told you so\" while Troy struggled. The rest is history.

Now I\'m not trying to compare Brooks with Aikman. I only say that because the \"experts\" are as wrong as they are right. In fact their percentage is probably well under 50% if people kept track of such things.

How can anyone say about Brooks that he is guilty of \"shotty preparation and poor leadership skills\". Scoring nearly 30 points a game on average in the NFL is NOT shotty preparation by any stretch of the imagination. Now I might have some fault with some play calling or maybe the game plan, but it\'s not accurate to make that statement. Now it could be that Brooks is not a natural-born leader...could be...could be that the Man is young and needs to better develop his leadership skills. I, for one, and not gonna fault him for that. Are you? His coaches acknowledge that he needs to step up in that regard, but until someone on the team who has to take the field with him comes out and says he has \"poor leadership skills\" I am going to give the man the benefit of the doubt.

Now I\'m not pointing my finger at you, WhoDat, and I\'m not going to challenge your knowledge of the game. I respect your knowledge and your opinion, I just think you\'re wrong! :P I have the same opinion of Saintz08 and I\'ve stated as much. I just happen to be on the other side of the \"opinion fence\" when it comes to Haz and Brooks. Toss in Gatorman and we\'d probably thow a hell of a party, but we\'d argue a lot too!

C'mon Man...