WhoDat

You know, I hadn\'t ever seen any of those reports... Of course, in the spirit of our agreement I shouldn\'t acknowledge them at all. About them I will say only this: I doubt that they\'re complete, but rather meant to portray a certain point... which they do well 08, they certainly get your point across well.

I know I shouldn\'t be talking about those quotes Saintfan, but they do convey something I have been saying for a while... and I\'ve honestly never seen those reports before. Brooks doesn\'t seem to be smart... I use smart loosely. Better yet, he doesn\'t seem to have FOOTBALL smarts. I don\'t get the feeling he does his homework. He looks lost a lot. That could also be why I get the feeling he doesn\'t read defenses very well. I mean, when he got hurt he didn\'t even put on the headphones. What\'s up with that man?

In any case, I understand you wanting a consumate contender. That really is the crux of our differences in opinion. I want to see the Saints win a Super Bowl as soon as possible. After they get that monkey off their back, then we can worry about being a good team year in and year out. Until we get to the big dance though, nothing else matters much to me.

Also, other than the Rams (I know, breaking the rules again), no team was built to get to a Super Bowl in recent years. Tampa hasn\'t gotten there with this team. Neither have the Raiders... even San Fran hasn\'t done it since the changing of the guard. They all have the talent to. But even the Rams seemingly sprouted out of nowhere. They maintained their level of play afterwards, but they weren\'t exactly built. I mean, New England, the Ravens, NEW YORK?, the Titans... not exactly powerhouses of professional football, ya know?

Anyway, that\'s it for me this Friday... how do you love my avatar Saintfan?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

JOESAM2002

Good posts you guys. As for trying to buy a Super Bowl, don\'t forget what Danial Snyder tried to do in Washington. He bought ,at least on paper, what should have been a Super bowl winner not long ago. Where are they now?

saintz08

The recent Super Bowls since the league clamped down on the cap , seem to have been about the Quarterback in either the beginning or the end of his career .

Elway had watched to many get by and gave it that extra something .
Warner trying to establish himself .
Dilfer holding on and trying to get there , although I think the beginning of the season was about Elvis and The D was great , Goose may have been the difference .
Brady making his mark .

Gannon seems poised enough to take it all and Rice can taste it too . Raiders seem to have a sense of urgency before cap reality hits .

\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton
On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan
Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

WhoDat

Nah - Pennington and the J-E-T-S, Jets, Jets, Jets. They\'re playing great football... and I\'d like to see them go all the way.

jm

What Brooks is not!
He is not a team player, if he was he would have revealed that he was truly bothered by an injury and would have taken himself out of the games for the good of the team.

What Haslett is !!!
A liar for continuing to try and cover up the obvious, that his QB was injured for the last 4 games.

Now the truth is out, Brooks to have an operation on his shoulder. Or maybe that happened after the season was over, huh?

[Edited on 11/1/2003 by jm]

WhoDat

OK, back to the debate here... Saintfan I haven\'t heard back from you so I\'m going to pour a little gas on the fire.

A lot of people are likely to disagree with me, but I think Brooks\' athleticism and strong arm actually hurt him. Wait, wait, hear this out.

Brooks is probably one of the top ten athletes at QB in the league. He has one of the top five arms, in terms of strength. This would normally be something that you would love in a QB, but in Brooks\' case I think it hurts.

I think he uses his athleticism as an excuse to cut corners and take risks in other parts of his game. For example, \"I can throw off my back foot into traffic, b/c my arm is so strong. I\'ll get it there.\" Or \"I don\'t have to get the ball out quickly b/c I can buy time with my feet.\"

Now, does Brooks actually think those thoughts... probably not, but they\'er there subconsiously. C\'mon Saintfan, I know you\'ve gotta have a lot to say on this one.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

saintz08

I could be wrong Who Dat but I think Saintsfan is an M-F poster .

Work related , just my guess work .

pakowitz

hey guys sorry i havent been here, been havin net problems, anyway
i missed all of this great conversation, but i really dont care right about now, just been havin a bad week, got in a wreck( not my fault) g/f left me :\'( kinda, lost my cable net :\'( i have 56k now :\'( jets lost o well i cant wait for the draft and for next season to begin, later peeps!!

geaux saints!!

saintfan

You\'re right Saintz08...I\'m usually a M-F poster. I get enough of the web during the week usually.

And sorry to hear the News Pakowitz. Maybe we can get together and write a country song! hehe

Now as for the Brooks debate that just won\'t end. Up to a point I agree with you WhoDat, on the fact that Brooks confidence in his arm strength and ability to scramble hurt him, but not any more than the shoulder injury. Fact of the matter his arm HAS allowed him to make throws that the \"professionals\" Saintz08 likes to quote have marveled at. Since Saintz08 broke the rule and started a trend, I can\'t help but add that There\'s a QB in Green Bay who does that regularly, and throws a healthy number of INT\'s, but no one is calling for his job. For that matter there\'s a QB in Atlanta that does the same thing, but because he\'s so fast (his only real redeming quality at this time) no one is calling for his job. Everything seems to be relative doesn\'t it?

As I\'ve said before or at least tried to indicate, Brooks isn\'t without blame for the year end slide, but to say \"he\'s not a team player\" isn\'t fair. To use various stastistics in an effort to point the blame soley at Brooks without once considering 12 dropped passes in the last two games is being short-sighted. To say Brooks is the reason the Saints failed (failed meaning an average of 27 points per game is failing) running the \"West Coast\" offense when they didn\'t have a Tight-End that could catch the freakin football is biased.

As I have said before, it\'s pointless to attempt to sway someone who doesn\'t want to be swayed. Certain people are just gonna hate Aaron Brooks no matter what, but you\'ll never be able to convince me that those people are looking at the whole picture because they just aren\'t, or they\'d acknowledge certain other aspects of the Saints\' problems which they squarely refuse to do.

C'mon Man...

WhoDat

OK Saintfan, I will also agree with you. Brooks has made some amazing throws. And I have said from the start that the collapse was not solely Brooks\' fault. Again, there are far bigger problems on this team. The only reason I\'m not talking about how bad the defense is is because that problem seems to be universally recognized. Everyone knows that wholesale changes will be made and most of us agree on who should stay and who should go. Actually, I believe you know that I have started other threads about guys like Knight and Turley... they just simply aren\'t debated with the passion that Brooks is.

Anyway, to stick with Brooks - I know I won\'t change your mind, just like I assume you know that you won\'t change mine. It\'s just healthy discussion, and as long as we\'re not going after each other I think it\'s fun.

I disagree with your comment about Vick. He doesn\'t throw a lot of INTs. He throws very few. However, you\'re absolutely right about Favre. He does the same thing that Brooks does, and I for one, like the guy and generally allow that.

You\'re probably already screaming DOUBLE STANDARD, but it\'s not, and I\'ll tell you why. For one, both of those guys you mentioned have other redeeming qualities. Vick can make plays with his feet. Favre, for the most part, wins when it counts. He\'s brought teams to championships and won. He\'s been the anchor of a consistent winner for years. Look at what Favre did this year with essentially a bunch of nobodies at receiver. Yeah, you know there names now, but it\'s because Favre makes them better players. Without a guy like that at QB I doubt that team is near as good, and you probably have a hard time thinking of who their receivers are right now.

Brooks doesn\'t have those redeming qualities. He doesn\'t have anything that makes up for dumb plays like Vick and Favre do. And again, I bet I know what you\'re thinking. Favre wasn\'t always a winner. What about when he was a second year starter? You\'re right, and I guess it comes down to faith. I just don\'t have it in Brooks.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"