Why in the world am I doing this?!

saintswhodi · 01-31-2005, 10:26 AM

Kool, fine stuff. I have to concede that a first round QB COULD be a bust, it has been shown numerous times that it can happen. In the case of the Bengals though, when you are sending your scout team to the combine and to colleges in a 4 door passenger car and not flying them around and giving them all the advnatages other teams have had, you have a formula for losing. That WAS the Bengals org. Like I said, Marvin Lewis changed that. He changed the attitude of the front office, players, and coaches around him, which in turn led to a better environemnt for an incoming QB. Had they had these in place previously, other QBs they drafted COULD have been successful. So while I can\'t but into the one of three theory, I can concede there is ALWAYS the possibility of a bust. That possibility seems to be getting smaller to me though as I noted sue to the way players are micor-scoped these days and the fact more college teams run NFL ready offenses than ever before. It\'s still debatable though.

Like I said about AB and the rookie, cause this is getting kinda circular, you trade AB and use his money to free up the positions of weakness. Given the offense and running game AB has, I don\'t see why a good rookie QB can\'t come in and post the same numbers. I don\'t think AB\'s numbers are that impressive anyway in reality. Not numbers another qb in this sytem can\'t put up anyway. You seem to be a bit more enamored with them than me, but leading the league in red zone turnovers and ADDING just plain stupid plays FAR OUTWEIGHS the mediocre numbers we get in return, i.e. unlike Favre, what we are getting out of him is not enough to excuse what he takes away. Leading the league in red zone turnovers for a 5th year starter is just inexcusable to me. That\'s one of the main reasons I feel an NFL ready rookie couldn\'t be worse.

Also Kool, McNabb wa snot a passing QB when he came into the NFL, he was an option qb. Huge difference since there are hardly any option qbs left in college, and none that will get drafted as high as McNabb was. HE has shown IMPROVEMENT every year since drafted though with terrible receivers, unlike AB who has gotten worse with good receivers. I know I know this ONE YEAR the line was crap on a stick.

Again, Druckenmiller was drafted to sit, and a bit of a reach. He should have gone lower, but the 49ers did not think he would be around for their second pick. I would expect him to do no less than squat. Refer to my changing landscape of college offenses from this thread and previous.

Again, I would take the ROOKIE Leftwich over AB. Considering he only had ONE receiver to throw to, an aging Jimmy Smith, no tight end, and fragile Fred as his RB. He still only has ONE receiver to throw to, and has gotten better. That\'s an easy choice for me. I would take rookie Leftwich, and he was drafted right behind Sullivan I believe so he was not a mid-rounder, he was top 10. Here, I think he woulda been in the pro bowl. He is that good.

On your challenge, I don\'t think there is a team like that, but again I think you have missed what I am saying. Trading AB gives us the money to fix a crappy O-line and a terrible defense. Keeping him doesn\'t. Then those points are no longer valid, as they would be able to be addressed.

GumboBC · 01-31-2005, 10:28 AM

saintswhodi --

You keep pointing out all of this \"talent\" on offense. And you imply that Brooks is holding all this talent on offense back?!

Well, I disagree...

And here\'s why:

While we do have talent at the so-called \"skilled\" positions... WR and RB. That\'s about it. And I think our WR corps is OVERRATED.

Donte\' isn\'t \"all that\". He\'s far from \"all that.\" First year WR\'s on other teams are making much more of an impact at WR. Donte\' was a big project when he was drafted. He was incrdiably fast, but VERY RAW as a WR.

Then you don\'t seem to place enough importance on the offensive line.

Check out this quote by: Mike Detillier of the Houma Daily Courier:

Last season, the offensive line was a series of disasters waiting to happen each and every week. Seemingly each Sunday, a multitude of mistakes were created by virtually every member of the unit, which seemed to be inadequately motivated and coached.

Mike Detellier ain\'t exactly the biggest Brooks\' fan, if you know what I mean? He\'s been one of Brooks harshest critics.

Yet, even Mike acknowleges the terrible offensive line.

The offensive line has simply prevented Brooks from being as effective as he could be. They cause him to have to force the ball into coverage. Throw the ball away. Hurry throws. It\'s a tough proposition for any QB.

Then the defense causes Brooks to have to try and keep-up in the scoring.

Saying Brooks plays on this incrediably talented defense really isn\'t true. He\'s got Deuce (who ranked 26th in the NFL) and Joe Horn?

Who else is so talented, saintwhodi?

saintswhodi · 01-31-2005, 10:39 AM

Man, talk about not seeing the forest.........

Clearly you knwo AB has been here 5 years correct? I ACKNOWLEDGED the line was crap THIS YEAR. But what are your excuses for last year, and the year before and the year before? Get it now. AB HAS BEEN HERE FIVE YEARS. AB HAS BEEN HERE FIVE YEARS. Jeez man. Is this year\'s line all you got? Well I have 5 years of poo WITH THE MOST TALENTED OFFENSIVE TEAM THE SAINTS HAVE EVER KNOWN. Again, I challenge you right here and now to find a Saints team with more talent than AB has had around him the past 5 years. He has had Deuce, considered the best rb. horn considered the best wr. Roaf, considered the best tackle, and he had them ALL AT THE SAME TIME, and still was mediocre. So let\'s say it again, AB HAS BEEN HERE FIVE YEARS, which is a CAREER THAT INCLUDES MORE THAN JUST LAST YEAR. So basically you concede that since the lien held AB back THIS PAST YEAR, he has held the team back the past FOUR YEARS. Okay, i\'ll go with that. Time for him to go. What about LeCharles? Is he not talented? Was Fontenot a damn good center? Please man. See past ONE SEASON to support this clown.

saintswhodi · 01-31-2005, 10:40 AM

Oh and Gumbo, you still haven\'t addressed my question about former NFL PLAYERS AND COACHES making negative comments about AB. Can we trust their opinions or have members of this fourm lined their pockets to make negative comments on national tv?

GumboBC · 01-31-2005, 11:18 AM

First -- Brooks has only had 4 full seasons as the starter.

And his first part time season, we won a playoff game.

The first 2 years under Brooks, he had about as good of stats as ANY 2 year starter.

Lets compare Brooks\' first 2 years to someone. Let\'s compare him to a hall of famer? Lets compare Brooks\' first 2 years to John Elway.

Brooks first year: 55.3%/ 3832yds/26TD/22ints
Elway first year: 56.3%/2598yds/18TD/15ints
Brooks better than Elway in first year.

Brooks second year: 53.6%/3572yds/27TD/15ints
Elway second year: 54.0%/3891yds/22TD/23ints
Brooks better than Elway in second year.

Scary ain\'t it, saintwhodi?

Heck lets compare their 3rd year...

Brooks 3rd year: 59.1%/3546/24TD/8ints
Elway 3rd year: 55.6%/3485/19TD/13ints
Brooks better than Elway in 3rd year.

You still wanna talk stats, saintwhodi?

You just don\'t have a leg to stand on if you want to talk stats.

Stats can prove somethings. And they are very useful at times.

But I really didn\'t prove anything with stats here.

Hopefully you learned something....LMAO!!!

saintswhodi · 01-31-2005, 11:47 AM

Did you seriously go there? Name me a receiver or rb from Elway\'s first years? I can name them for Marino off the top of my head. Clayton and Duper, CAUSE PEOPLE HAVE HEARD OF THEM. Elway was a ONE MAN TEAM WHEN THE BRONCOS WENT TO COUNT THEM ONE TWO THREE SUPERBOWLS. Brooks can\'t even get us in the playoffs. What a horrible example. You are right, you proved absolutely nothing with that. How about Montana? Dwight Clark ring a bell? Bradshaw? Stallworth, Swann, Ott, Harris. Man, what a terrible terrible example. Where is JKool when I need him? Elway was a one man team FOREVER in Denver. If you ever think Brooks could carry a team, youare deluded.

saintswhodi · 01-31-2005, 11:48 AM

And Again:

Oh and Gumbo, you still haven\'t addressed my question about former NFL PLAYERS AND COACHES making negative comments about AB. Can we trust their opinions or have members of this fourm lined their pockets to make negative comments on national tv?

saintswhodi · 01-31-2005, 11:58 AM

By the way, you also forgot to mention in his 3rd year Elway had his team in a Superbowl. Anyone remember anyone on their offense besides Elway without looking it up? Wow.

GumboBC · 01-31-2005, 11:59 AM

saintwhodi --

Terry Bradshaw says he likes Brooks and that Brooks is not the problem. I heard him say it with my own ears.

Joe Horn says he like Brooks and Brooks is not the problem.

Deuce says Brooks isn\'t the problem and the fans give him way too much grief.

Players, announcers, and fans all having different opinions.

Do you actually think all the media folks agree with you on Brooks. Eh, knowing you, you probably do...

Elway had some good receivers. Remember, the \"three amigos\". Did you ever see them play.. Eh, guess not.

What was the Saints record the year before Brooks got there? I believe it was 3-13.

Who were the Saints receivers his first 2 years?

I suppose you only like the stats YOU use. Go figure... :P

saintswhodi · 01-31-2005, 12:35 PM

As you are so fond of saying, can you provide me with a link to all these people with these glowing comments about AB? Please. Any link anywhere. From any source. I\'ll be waiting.

hahahahaha The three Amigos, that\'s the best you got? So cause they had a cute nickname they were good? This is too precious. I love it. Well, the Nigerian Nightmare must be a hall of famer cause he has a nickname right? Nope. What about A-train Anthony Thomas? surely he makes the pro bowl every year right cause he has a nickname right? This is priceless. His running backs were Sammy Winder and Gerlad Whilite. I guess you would take them over Deuce. I wouldn\'t. Your 3 amigos on the SEASON had a total of 99 catches(Joe had 94) 11 Tds(did Joe have that many) and 1750 yards TOGETHER. Joe was over 1000 BY HIMSELF. By all means continue with this bad example, I am enjoying it greatly.

xrotflmao:

[Edited on 31/1/2005 by saintswhodi]

[Edited on 31/1/2005 by saintswhodi]

01-31-2005, 10:26 AM	#41
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why in the world am I doing this?! Kool, fine stuff. I have to concede that a first round QB COULD be a bust, it has been shown numerous times that it can happen. In the case of the Bengals though, when you are sending your scout team to the combine and to colleges in a 4 door passenger car and not flying them around and giving them all the advnatages other teams have had, you have a formula for losing. That WAS the Bengals org. Like I said, Marvin Lewis changed that. He changed the attitude of the front office, players, and coaches around him, which in turn led to a better environemnt for an incoming QB. Had they had these in place previously, other QBs they drafted COULD have been successful. So while I can\'t but into the one of three theory, I can concede there is ALWAYS the possibility of a bust. That possibility seems to be getting smaller to me though as I noted sue to the way players are micor-scoped these days and the fact more college teams run NFL ready offenses than ever before. It\'s still debatable though. Like I said about AB and the rookie, cause this is getting kinda circular, you trade AB and use his money to free up the positions of weakness. Given the offense and running game AB has, I don\'t see why a good rookie QB can\'t come in and post the same numbers. I don\'t think AB\'s numbers are that impressive anyway in reality. Not numbers another qb in this sytem can\'t put up anyway. You seem to be a bit more enamored with them than me, but leading the league in red zone turnovers and ADDING just plain stupid plays FAR OUTWEIGHS the mediocre numbers we get in return, i.e. unlike Favre, what we are getting out of him is not enough to excuse what he takes away. Leading the league in red zone turnovers for a 5th year starter is just inexcusable to me. That\'s one of the main reasons I feel an NFL ready rookie couldn\'t be worse. Also Kool, McNabb wa snot a passing QB when he came into the NFL, he was an option qb. Huge difference since there are hardly any option qbs left in college, and none that will get drafted as high as McNabb was. HE has shown IMPROVEMENT every year since drafted though with terrible receivers, unlike AB who has gotten worse with good receivers. I know I know this ONE YEAR the line was crap on a stick. Again, Druckenmiller was drafted to sit, and a bit of a reach. He should have gone lower, but the 49ers did not think he would be around for their second pick. I would expect him to do no less than squat. Refer to my changing landscape of college offenses from this thread and previous. Again, I would take the ROOKIE Leftwich over AB. Considering he only had ONE receiver to throw to, an aging Jimmy Smith, no tight end, and fragile Fred as his RB. He still only has ONE receiver to throw to, and has gotten better. That\'s an easy choice for me. I would take rookie Leftwich, and he was drafted right behind Sullivan I believe so he was not a mid-rounder, he was top 10. Here, I think he woulda been in the pro bowl. He is that good. On your challenge, I don\'t think there is a team like that, but again I think you have missed what I am saying. Trading AB gives us the money to fix a crappy O-line and a terrible defense. Keeping him doesn\'t. Then those points are no longer valid, as they would be able to be addressed.

01-31-2005, 10:28 AM	#42
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Why in the world am I doing this?! saintswhodi -- You keep pointing out all of this \"talent\" on offense. And you imply that Brooks is holding all this talent on offense back?! Well, I disagree... And here\'s why: While we do have talent at the so-called \"skilled\" positions... WR and RB. That\'s about it. And I think our WR corps is OVERRATED. Donte\' isn\'t \"all that\". He\'s far from \"all that.\" First year WR\'s on other teams are making much more of an impact at WR. Donte\' was a big project when he was drafted. He was incrdiably fast, but VERY RAW as a WR. Then you don\'t seem to place enough importance on the offensive line. Check out this quote by: Mike Detillier of the Houma Daily Courier: Last season, the offensive line was a series of disasters waiting to happen each and every week. Seemingly each Sunday, a multitude of mistakes were created by virtually every member of the unit, which seemed to be inadequately motivated and coached. Mike Detellier ain\'t exactly the biggest Brooks\' fan, if you know what I mean? He\'s been one of Brooks harshest critics. Yet, even Mike acknowleges the terrible offensive line. The offensive line has simply prevented Brooks from being as effective as he could be. They cause him to have to force the ball into coverage. Throw the ball away. Hurry throws. It\'s a tough proposition for any QB. Then the defense causes Brooks to have to try and keep-up in the scoring. Saying Brooks plays on this incrediably talented defense really isn\'t true. He\'s got Deuce (who ranked 26th in the NFL) and Joe Horn? Who else is so talented, saintwhodi?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-31-2005, 10:39 AM	#43
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why in the world am I doing this?! Man, talk about not seeing the forest......... Clearly you knwo AB has been here 5 years correct? I ACKNOWLEDGED the line was crap THIS YEAR. But what are your excuses for last year, and the year before and the year before? Get it now. AB HAS BEEN HERE FIVE YEARS. AB HAS BEEN HERE FIVE YEARS. Jeez man. Is this year\'s line all you got? Well I have 5 years of poo WITH THE MOST TALENTED OFFENSIVE TEAM THE SAINTS HAVE EVER KNOWN. Again, I challenge you right here and now to find a Saints team with more talent than AB has had around him the past 5 years. He has had Deuce, considered the best rb. horn considered the best wr. Roaf, considered the best tackle, and he had them ALL AT THE SAME TIME, and still was mediocre. So let\'s say it again, AB HAS BEEN HERE FIVE YEARS, which is a CAREER THAT INCLUDES MORE THAN JUST LAST YEAR. So basically you concede that since the lien held AB back THIS PAST YEAR, he has held the team back the past FOUR YEARS. Okay, i\'ll go with that. Time for him to go. What about LeCharles? Is he not talented? Was Fontenot a damn good center? Please man. See past ONE SEASON to support this clown.

01-31-2005, 10:40 AM	#44
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why in the world am I doing this?! Oh and Gumbo, you still haven\'t addressed my question about former NFL PLAYERS AND COACHES making negative comments about AB. Can we trust their opinions or have members of this fourm lined their pockets to make negative comments on national tv?

01-31-2005, 11:18 AM	#45
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Why in the world am I doing this?! First -- Brooks has only had 4 full seasons as the starter. And his first part time season, we won a playoff game. The first 2 years under Brooks, he had about as good of stats as ANY 2 year starter. Lets compare Brooks\' first 2 years to someone. Let\'s compare him to a hall of famer? Lets compare Brooks\' first 2 years to John Elway. Brooks first year: 55.3%/ 3832yds/26TD/22ints Elway first year: 56.3%/2598yds/18TD/15ints Brooks better than Elway in first year. Brooks second year: 53.6%/3572yds/27TD/15ints Elway second year: 54.0%/3891yds/22TD/23ints Brooks better than Elway in second year. Scary ain\'t it, saintwhodi? Heck lets compare their 3rd year... Brooks 3rd year: 59.1%/3546/24TD/8ints Elway 3rd year: 55.6%/3485/19TD/13ints Brooks better than Elway in 3rd year. You still wanna talk stats, saintwhodi? You just don\'t have a leg to stand on if you want to talk stats. Stats can prove somethings. And they are very useful at times. But I really didn\'t prove anything with stats here. Hopefully you learned something....LMAO!!!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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01-31-2005, 11:47 AM	#46
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why in the world am I doing this?! Did you seriously go there? Name me a receiver or rb from Elway\'s first years? I can name them for Marino off the top of my head. Clayton and Duper, CAUSE PEOPLE HAVE HEARD OF THEM. Elway was a ONE MAN TEAM WHEN THE BRONCOS WENT TO COUNT THEM ONE TWO THREE SUPERBOWLS. Brooks can\'t even get us in the playoffs. What a horrible example. You are right, you proved absolutely nothing with that. How about Montana? Dwight Clark ring a bell? Bradshaw? Stallworth, Swann, Ott, Harris. Man, what a terrible terrible example. Where is JKool when I need him? Elway was a one man team FOREVER in Denver. If you ever think Brooks could carry a team, youare deluded.

01-31-2005, 11:48 AM	#47
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why in the world am I doing this?! And Again: Oh and Gumbo, you still haven\'t addressed my question about former NFL PLAYERS AND COACHES making negative comments about AB. Can we trust their opinions or have members of this fourm lined their pockets to make negative comments on national tv?

01-31-2005, 11:58 AM	#48
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why in the world am I doing this?! By the way, you also forgot to mention in his 3rd year Elway had his team in a Superbowl. Anyone remember anyone on their offense besides Elway without looking it up? Wow.

01-31-2005, 11:59 AM	#49
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Why in the world am I doing this?! saintwhodi -- Terry Bradshaw says he likes Brooks and that Brooks is not the problem. I heard him say it with my own ears. Joe Horn says he like Brooks and Brooks is not the problem. Deuce says Brooks isn\'t the problem and the fans give him way too much grief. Players, announcers, and fans all having different opinions. Do you actually think all the media folks agree with you on Brooks. Eh, knowing you, you probably do... Elway had some good receivers. Remember, the \"three amigos\". Did you ever see them play.. Eh, guess not. What was the Saints record the year before Brooks got there? I believe it was 3-13. Who were the Saints receivers his first 2 years? I suppose you only like the stats YOU use. Go figure... :P
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-31-2005, 12:35 PM	#50
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why in the world am I doing this?! As you are so fond of saying, can you provide me with a link to all these people with these glowing comments about AB? Please. Any link anywhere. From any source. I\'ll be waiting. hahahahaha The three Amigos, that\'s the best you got? So cause they had a cute nickname they were good? This is too precious. I love it. Well, the Nigerian Nightmare must be a hall of famer cause he has a nickname right? Nope. What about A-train Anthony Thomas? surely he makes the pro bowl every year right cause he has a nickname right? This is priceless. His running backs were Sammy Winder and Gerlad Whilite. I guess you would take them over Deuce. I wouldn\'t. Your 3 amigos on the SEASON had a total of 99 catches(Joe had 94) 11 Tds(did Joe have that many) and 1750 yards TOGETHER. Joe was over 1000 BY HIMSELF. By all means continue with this bad example, I am enjoying it greatly. xrotflmao: [Edited on 31/1/2005 by saintswhodi] [Edited on 31/1/2005 by saintswhodi]