Deuce is lazy?
 

Whew. I thought for a minute you had slipped over to the dark side. I recognize his faults. It\'s just that to me they are insignificant compared to other players/positions on the team.

As far as speed is concerned, you\'re right B&B. I guess I was really talking about top-speed. He has great deceptive speed, which has not been seen much because he can\'t get as many breakaways as in the past.

Deuce is lazy?
 

Because we have a 2000 yard RB who has
1. gained 1000 yards (big fricking whoop!)
2. gained a lot of weight (look at his 2001 pics vesus 2004)
3. now appears injury prone (anybody think weight and conditioning may effect that?)
4. fumbles more than he ever used to
5. has always had questionable conditioning habits.
6. gotten a free pass for a year and a half because he\'s \"better than average\"
7. mopes on the sidelines
8. openly questions coaches and schemes
9. admitted to quitting
I\'m shocked that you can\'t even see why this is a discussion.
Its amazing. Now I see how frustrating it is to deal with a 100% pure Brooks apologist.

Deuce is lazy?
 

I was gone for a while this year. I didn\'t hear about this.

What happened? Someone tell me the story...?

Deuce is lazy?
 

Its useless Billy. No matter what you point out there will be a ton of EXCUSES thrown in your face. EXCUSES, the names change but the excuses persist. I give up. And I\'m gonna get fatter and lazier. Nothing rallies the troop like excusing your team leader from underachieving.
\"A Commitment to Excellence\" , err, I mean \"A Commitment to Mediocrity\"

ExCuse McAllister

Deuce is lazy?
 

Nobody has a 2000 yard back. A guy might get lucky and go over 2000 once, but that\'s it. Aren\'t there like ONLY 4 2000 yard seasons or something? I don\'t know if 4 is right but it\'s close.

And this is your problem. Expectations. Your expecting something unattainable by any RB (2000 yards guaranteed) while forgetting how nice it is to have a 1000 yard RB.

Again, he missed 3 games. If he just averaged 50 yards in each of those, he\'d have been much closer to 1200 yards on the season. I don\'t think that is overinflating what could have happened. What\'s wrong with 1000 yards or 1200 yards except your expectations were too high?

it\'s not like I\'m saying he\'s the best in the NFl. Certainly there are things he needs to work on. It just seems like he\'s being unfairly and overly criticized. Almost as if you\'re trying to show everyone how unfair it is to single out one player without recognizing the influences that might have kept him from achieving good production. But, that can\'t be it cuz that\'d be an agenda.

Deuce is lazy?
 

He has the talent and ability to be a 2000 yard back.

I\'m an equal opportunity caller-outer.
When I see a player NOT being called out while other players are, I call BS on that. It has nothing to do with an agenda. It has everything to do with calling like it is.

Deuce is lazy?
 

Me too!!!!!!!

But I\'m also an equal opportunity defender.

There ain\'t many players I would trade Deuce for. I like him a lot......

I\'d trade Brooks before I would Deuce. Although, 1000 yard runningbacks are MUCH easier to find than a good starting QB. But, that\'s another discussion.

No player, or coach, is without some blame. Deuce included. But, to be honest, I\'m really not that worried about Deuce...

I do agree with a lot of what Danno is saying. All stats aside. Deuce needs to be more of a leader, work harder, stay in better shape.

I never hear of Deuce making any speeches to the team. Hey, at least Brooks\' tries.

I stick up for Brooks a lot because I think he gets unfairly critcized. But Brooks is not without fault either. He needs to close his trap and just play football. He needs to take on a bigger leadership role. Brooks needs to throw better passes and stop trying to make a play when nothing is there.

Deuce is lazy?
 

Ok, so you\'re calling out a player who did not rush for 2000 yards. Get your voicebox warmed up because you\'ve got 31 other RB starters throughout the league to call out too. Nobody rushed for more than 1700 yards this season. EXPECTATIONS.

I\'d feel better about it if you\'d say you\'re upset that he didn\'t make 1500 yards. That\'d at least be a more reasonable figure. Although I\'ll point out that only 5 Rbs in the NFL even eclipsed that figure. In my estimation Deuce didn\'t have a top 10 year and that\'s a shame, but not reason to jump on him like this.

I\'ll go ahead and dispell this \"fumbles\" myth too while I\'m at it.

Chris Brown, Ahman Green, and Edgerrin James all had 6 fumbles.

Reuben Droughns, McAllister, Portis, M. Pittman and Tomlinson all had 5.

Alexander, Dillon, Holmes, Johnson, And Emmitt Smith all had 4.

That\'s not too bad of company to be in. If your main argument is just that he has increased his fumbling then, again, your expectations might be too high since all these other top RBs performed similarly.

Deuce is lazy?
 

Nice work Scotty. I am with BNB, I really don\'t see why we are discussing Deuce. Could he stand a better conditioning program in the offseason? Hell yeah. I hope the new RB coach will help with that. But I don\'t think he is so far off the wagon as to not be able to get back to whatever form he is expected to be performing up to. I in no way thought his fumbles were that big a problem, especially since at least 2 of the 5 came when he was BLASTED behind the line by an untouched LB. The first one just happened to bounce into Barber\'s hands in the first Tampa game. I hope we can move past that being used as a \"problem\" now.

Deuce is lazy?
 

Alot of Rb\'s get blasted behind the line and dont fumble that much.Just my opinion, his head was somewhere else last year, but I think he will back after we hopefully tell him he gets an extension when he becomes a top 5 RB. Barber did it with just as crappy O-line as we have!

Deuce is lazy?
 

I do agree with that, but Deuce does not belong in the Same sentence as Barry no matter what we are talking about!

Deuce is lazy?
 

You missed the point Venturi, Deuce actually doesn\'t fumble that much compared to other \"great rbs\" in the NFL today. It is understandable how he would on those two considering soon as he got the ball, he was being hit.

Deuce is lazy?
 

As i am too lazy to find a link, i would bet he was up there in fumbles this year. Up until this year that was a great part of hi s game. I just think his head was elsewhere...I mean he has a contract to worry about.

Deuce is lazy?
 

You don\'t need a link for fumbles (if you trust me). I posted several fumble totals above. I got the stats from the cnn/si site if you want to check on them.

Deuce is lazy?
 

Just for the sake of argument, let\'s say that Deuce is a cancer and we need to get rid of him.

If we were lucky we\'d get a 2nd rounder for him. I\'m not sure that we\'d get our value back in a trade.

Deuce is lazy?
 

He had 5 fumbles this year, 4 he lost. Last year he had 6 fumbles, 4 he lost. But he played in two fewer games. Scotty covered the rest.
I wasn\'t going to touch this again until I got home, but I was suprised by the venom from Danno, although I do understand where it\'s coming from, given that I\'ve been here for all the endless, mindless AB debates. You can call them like you see them, much as I have and will always do, but you\'re bullet points were a bit off, as it relates to Deuce. Much like some of the past anti-AB sentiments, now, do you really want to be considered slanted like those from the past?

Deuce is lazy?
 

I don\'t get it. I\'m saying the exact same thing.
Should he be better? HECK YEAH!

Thats my ENTIRE point. He can do better. You\'re taking issue with me when you are saying the same exact thing.

I\'ll re-iterate.
HE IS OUR BEST PLAYER
HE HAD A DOWN YEAR
HE SHOULD DO BETTER

THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT. :casstet:

You guys are acting like I want to cut him outright. Sheez guys lighten up.

Actually you\'re proving my point. The least little criticism of Deuce and you guys come completely unglued.

Deuce is lazy?
 

But, speaking for myself, I am with Scotty. Deuce is not a 2000 yard rusher, not many are or ever have been. That high ankle sprain takes like 6 weeks to get over. They rushed him back in three and he still averaged over 4 yards per and got 1000 yards. Had he played in those other 3 games and not been hurt in a few others from coming back early, conservatively we are talking about a 1300-1400 yard year. With more TDs than last year. That\'s nothing to sneeze at. When you put him into a category pretty much NOONE is in, it just magnifies everything. I am sorry if you felt I was saying the same thing you have been saying. Also, the fumbles aren\'t THAT big a problem, IMHO.

Deuce is lazy?
 

Well, I\'m glad we have a gutsy RB with a big heart. But ya think had he been in better shape the injury may not have occurred? Maybe he plays all 16? Maybe we get an extra win or two?
And I think he is very capable of flirting with 2000 yards, (125 yards/game).

I give up.

Deuce is awesome. He is the best player ever.
He should get even fatter and slower, he\'d be even awesomer dude..
I\'ll bet if he broke both legs by ballooned to 370, he\'d still get his 60 yards/game.

Deuce is lazy?
 

Whoa dude, no need to be condescending. 2000 yards is a lot to ask of ANY back, let alone Deuce. He prob did get hurt cause of his poor conditioning and lack of respect for the new offense, and we ALL have said that needs to be fixed and addressed. But if you are waiting for 2000 yards, you are in for a BIG letdown every year and will have to post the same disappointment every year.

Deuce is lazy?
 

I wanna say it...please, somebody stop me from saying it.

:nono:

Deuce is lazy?
 

... hate it when facts cut through a good mindless argument..

...Dulymus\' stock dropped in the draft not because of his \"work ethic\"... for those of you who do not remember, it dropped because he was labeled \"injury prone\".

..This year Deuce ran for a total of 1074 yards while playing in 14 games, counting the game he got injured (3 carries for a yard)... now, how many games, of those 14, did Deuce touch the ball 20 times? Ok, I will not count the game he got injured... without counting the game he got injured: he got the ball more than 20 times in only 7 games.
Here are Dulymus\' number of carries in some game games:

vs SEA- 16 rushes
vs MIN - 18 rushes
vs SD - 16 rushes
vs KC - 16 rushes
vs DEN - 13 rushes
vs CAR - 7 rushes

.. No one can get to 2000 yards with such few carries in so many games.. no one is going to run for 2000 yards touching the ball less than 300 times.. regardless of whether the line sucks or not, if the RB doesn\'t get the ball handed to him, there\'s nothing he can do, whether the line is bad or not.
.
BTW, only 5 players in the history of the NFL have rushed for 2000 or more yards...

...40 yard times are great if you are running track, I guess.. the right shoes, on the right type of surface, a straight line, no constrictions on your body...
.. I don\'t know... Dan Morgan runs a 4.4 something, Chris Gamble runs a 4.2 something... they couldn\'t catch Deuce for 71 yards...


...as you were...

Deuce is lazy?
 

So then, do we blame the defense for allowing the team to get so far behind? I\'d say so, but then had he performed better early in the game perhaps we might have done better overall.

How many TD\'s did he score? What\'s his TD/Fumble ratio for last year?

Man, this is fun. LOL

Deuce is lazy?
 

Gamble was exposed at the combine last year. That number is is closer to a 4.55/40. He\'s still a good corner.

Deuce is lazy?
 

Think Deuce is slow and lazy?, put him on the free market and you couldn\'t count to 10 before another team had signed him, Deuce is the real deal

Deuce is lazy?
 

im adding my two cents on the subject. but i would say that first deuce missed a couple of games and that will always bring your total down. if not he probally would have had 12 to 1300 yards this season. pretty good number. also we were using that one back set that didnt work the first part of the year. we also got behind in a lot of games through the first 12 that took deuce out of the game. also he was dropped in the draft because of a worry that he was injury prone not that he had a bad work ethic. thats my two cents

Deuce is lazy?
 

mindless?
Yeah, I sure read a whole lot of \"Yeah, but... followed by a list of EXCUSES!
No wonder most fans are contenet with 8-8. They refuse to see the obvious when its right in their face.
No wait I\'m wrong, they admit they see the obvious but then supply a list of excuses why their own realization is incorrect.
The only mindless arguement I see is admitting there is a problem then listing excuses why its not a problem.
Its the typical Saint fan mentality.

Deuce is lazy?
 

im sorry what are you trying to say danno. please enlighten me and back it up with some facts if i am misunderstanding you. because i hope i am

Deuce is lazy?
 

I\'m sorry, I\'ve tried to enlighten in every way imaginable.
I don\'t think its possible for me to put it any differently than I already have 3 zillion times.
I guess sometimes its impossible to get your point across no matter how many different ways you try. If you don\'t understand my take yet, you never will and I\'ll never be able to explain it to you.
Like Deuce, I give up. :casstet:

Deuce is lazy?
 

This had me straight up rolling. Nice parting shot Danno. :rollinglaugh:

Deuce is lazy?
 

oh yes this is the post i meant to respond too. dannno im trying to figure out whether your saying that deuce is part of the problem or that people are blaming him when they should be blaming other parts of the team. i dont know your point because i have never either disagreed with your post or not payed them much attention

Deuce is lazy?
 

oh sorry danno i read some of your past comments. now understand your argument. well i understand you
oh wait i dont understand any of that. i see a cry baby crying

boohoo hoo oh im not duece i wish i was deuce no donna

Deuce is lazy?
 

danno im just kidding. hey you made a something. so no hard feelings.

Deuce is lazy?
 

spkb25, you\'re dangerously close to being slapped with the \"JKool rule\".

Deuce is lazy?
 

..well, it really isn\'t fun... you just want to get in a blame game: you can \"blame\" the defense for falling behind because the defense is the one who usually gets scored on, then you can \"blame\" the offense for not being able to move the ball early and constantly going 3-and-out, therefore leaving the defense with bad field position, or you can \"blame\" special teams for not giving either offense or defense good field position, and on and on and on...

..look, you and I know the intention of the original post... but anyway, if we pretend this is about Deuce, I\'ll tell you, I\'m not a \'stats\" guy.. \"stats\" are ratios, averages, tape measurements, etc...
I just know that if you don\'t hand the ball to the RB, whatever the reason is not to hand the ball to the RB, he cannot get yards;
... I also know that in the open field not very many people in the NFL can catch up to Dulymus, even if he doesn\'t run a 4.2 40, and the ones who catch up, need a few yards to bring him down.

Deuce is lazy?
 

..well, proving again that I thing well...

there were posts insinuating that Dulymus had dropped down in the 2001 draft because of his \"work ethic\", and that is not right.
Here:
http://espn.go.com/melkiper/s/2001/0330/1164683.html
Due to injury concerns, McAllister has lost some ground recently, but I still believe he has the ability to rank as a top-drawer, all-purpose feature back in the NFL.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2001/rd2.html
Deuce McAllister, RB, Mississippi - (snip)McAllister has proven to be injury prone. Players with potential injury problems will not get drafted first overall. The Chargers will also be looking for the safest pick, because of the Ryan Leaf fiasco, and Deuce is far from safe.

..you can find some more if you want to... I figured Kiper and one more would suffice to show that the reason why Deuce wasn\'t drafted earlier was because he was labeled \"injury prone\", not as having a questionable \"work ethic\"...

..then there\'s the 1074 yds... I am not much of a stats guy, you know, ratios, averages, etc... so I don\'t think there\'s a magic number out there for any player to reach... but it seems pretty reasonable to say that, if the ball isn\'t handed to the RB, for whatever reason, he\'s not going to get many yards...

..if you think that he should be getting 2000 yards a season, well, that\'s ok, I guess... but the fact remains that only 5 RB\'s in NFL history have ever reached 2000 yards in one season, and 2000 yards in a season is a pretty tall order for any back.

..if you think Deuce is slow, that\'s ok too... just like I\'m not too interested in stats, I\'m not too interested in 40 times either... like I said, he looked pretty fast to me in that 71 yard run...

... another fact is that I don\'t consider Deuce a \"great\" RB or a \"top 5\" RB... He\'s a very good RB when healthy, and that\'s that...

Deuce is lazy?
 

Okay... About Deuce and his fumbling...

I think the only way to judge a runningback\'s fumbles is to look the the # of carries/fumble ratio.

Let\'s do that...........

Here\'s Deuce compared to some of the top backs in the NFL.






Deuce McAllister
269-carries
5-fumbles
Deuce fumbled once every 53.8 carries.

Curtis Martin
371-carries
2-fumbles
Martin fumbled once every 185.5 carries.

LaDainian Tomlinson
339-carries
6-fumbles
Tomlinson fumbled once every 56.5 carries.

Corey Dillion
345-carries
5-fumbles
Dillion fumbled once every 69 carries.

Clinton Portis
343-carries
5-fumbles
Portis fumbled once every 68.6 carries.

Shaun Alexander
353-carries
5-fumbles
Alexander fumbled once every 70.6 carries.

Deuce fumbled once every 53.8 carries.
Tomlinson fumbled once every 56.5 carries.
Portis fumbled once every 68.6 carries.
Dillion fumbled once every 69 carries.
Alexander fumbled once every 70.6 carries.
Martin fumbled once every 185.5 carries.


[Edited on 2/2/2005 by GumboBC]

Deuce is lazy?
 

[quote
... another fact is that I don\'t consider Deuce a \"great\" RB or a \"top 5\" RB... He\'s a very good RB when healthy, and that\'s that... [/quote:311d9e4490]

How is it a \"fact\" when someone uses the phrase \"I don\'t consider\" in an argument.

The man has one bad year and all of a sudden he drops off someone\'s top 5 back or \"great\" board. Before this year, I bet all of you had consider Duece to be a top 5 back. For one, we got outscored like 90-10 in the last 14 games in the first quarter (not accurate but somewhere along those lines) Your O-line is in shambles, you have no fullback to lead block, try rushing for 1,500 yards with those odds.

Duece is a franchise player. Put him in San Diego, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, or Denver and see what he does. Duece is a top 5 back. He has all the intangibles. He had an off-year thats it. Now with a new co-ordinator, position coach, personnel along the line, Karney with a year of experience under his belt, we should be in good shape.

I know I am optomistic, and I guess I see the good in people rather than the bad, but there not many bad things you can say about Duece.



[Edited on 2/2/2005 by Boogro]

Deuce is lazy?
 

... well, if I have to explain it .. ok.. guess so..
say you believe in God...
\"It\'s a fact that I believe in God\"
vs
\"It\'s a fact that God exists\"
...or you can re-word the first sentence as:
\"I consider God to be real\".
..see what I mean?
The fact is that \"action\" , where action = my thinking, and not what I am thinking, i.e. \"Deuce is not a great RB\", which in itself is arguable, obviously...

... just to clarify, I don\'t have \"top 5 lists\"... however, speaking of RB\'s , here\'s some food for thought, in no particular order ( active players):

Jamal Lewis
Priest Holmes
Curtis Martin
Edgerrin James
LaDanian Tomlinson
Ahman Green
Fred Taylor
Clinton Portis
Corey Dillon

..as far as being \"great\", Jim Brown was great, Sweetness wa great, Dorsett was great... you can\'t define greatness in 2-3 seasons worth of stats (which to me are as useless as \"top 5\" lists)... Greatness is measured throughout a career...

..so there..






[Edited on 2/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]

[Edited on 2/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]

Deuce is lazy?
 

TD/Fumble ratio? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

:shrug: