One more time... Our linebackers!!

GumboBC · 02-04-2005, 01:01 PM

First, I wanna talk about Courtney Watson.

Watson has had only one year, and I understand that.

But, I saw nothing in 2004 that convinces me he will EVER be the player we need. I didn't see any flashes of his physical ablitiy that would lead me to believe he's the answer.

I saw Sam Mills his first year. I knew right away he was special.

I've seen many more MLB in their first year that at least "flashed" signs of greatness.

If I were a betting man, and I am, I would say Watson is going to be average.

Considering MLB is one of the most important positions on defense, I think this should be a BIG priority.

About Colby Bockwoldt.... I don't know what any of you saw. But I saw a 6th round draft pick making a lot of plays on his own. I was very impressed with this kid. I'm not sold, but I'm very optimistic about him.

James Allen........ I really didn't see him do that much. He deserves another look. And I'm not saying any of our linebackers don't deserve another shot of being the starters.

But, IMO, it's just too big of a risk going with who we have or bringing in some other middle of the road prospects.

IMO, we either need to draft a highly rated LB or bring one in in FA.

I really don't want to go into next season with what we have and have no altenative.

So.........while Haslett is trying to upgrade the saftety position... I'm concerned about LBs...

BlackandBlue · 02-04-2005, 01:28 PM

Let me see if I get this straight

You\'re predicting Watson to be average, after his first year, yet, you think Allen deserves a 2nd look after his 3rd season?

Al Wilson and Dan Morgan must have looked pretty average to you in their rookie seasons as well.

GumboBC · 02-04-2005, 01:44 PM

Let me see if I get this straight

You\'re predicting Watson to be average, after his first year, yet, you think Allen deserves a 2nd look after his 3rd season?

Al Wilson and Dan Morgan must have looked pretty average to you in their rookie seasons as well.

Watson may go on to be great. Hell, I really don\'t know.

But, what I do know is there is just a big of a chance that he will never be anything but average.

He wasn\'t considered to be a big time player coming out of college. Which is why he went in the 2nd round.

If you look at the top linebackers in the NFL, more times than not, they were highly rated coming out of college and were 1st round draft picks..

I may have said the same thing about Al Wilson and Dan Morgan. And those two players have done well.

But, BlackandBlue, what makes you think Courtney Watson is going to be a probowl player.

All I\'m saying is its mighty risky.

saintswhodi · 02-04-2005, 02:26 PM

Was Sam Mills even drafted? Didn\'t he come from the USFL or something with Mora? Seth Joyner was an 8th round lb. Boss Bailer was 2nd round. E.J. Henderson was also. Will witherspoon was 3rd round. Larry Foote who is a stud for Pittsburgh was 1 4th rounder, Andra Davis for Cleveland was a 5th rounder. So I guess I can see both of your points. Gumbo, first rounders generally produce better LBs than later, but later LBs can be quite successful. There seems to be no clear cut line as to where they are drafted produces what kinda talent. Robert Thomas for St. Luois ain\'t that great and he was a first rounder. Nick Barnett for the Packers is okay but he was a first rounder. Buffalo drafted Erik flowers in the first round in 2000 I don\'t think he has ever done much. Basically all this just says it\'s too early to tell.

GumboBC · 02-04-2005, 02:39 PM

saintwhodi --

It is too early to tell about Watson. And I don\'t have the exact numbers on the success or 1st round LBs vs. those drafted in the 2nd round or lower.

My guess is, 1st round draft choices do better than the late round picks. I think the futher you go down in the draft, the more the odds decrease that you find a keeper.

That\'s really not the point I was trying to make, though..

My whole arguement is based on my belief that the MLB position is one of the most important on defense.

And that\'s where Courtney Watson resides. If it were outside linebacker, I wouldn\'t be as concerned.

But, it\'s middle linebacker and I am very concerned...

It\'s not that I think Courtney Watson can\'t get it done. It\'s that I think its too risky and try. At least for this upcoming year.

I would get a proven MLB or draft a highly rated one and increase my odds that we have properly addressed the MLB position. If not, then we have no other options at MLB next year. It\'s Watson or bust...

That doesn\'t exactly leave me feeling comfortable.

If we did find a stud MLB, Watson could always move to the outside or be used in situational duty...

GumboBC · 02-04-2005, 02:39 PM

saintwhodi --

PS --

Sam Mills was not drafted. I was talking about is rookie year in the NFL.

[Edited on 4/2/2005 by GumboBC]

Danno · 02-04-2005, 02:50 PM

First, I wanna talk about Courtney Watson.

Watson has had only one year, and I understand that.

But, I saw nothing in 2004 that convinces me he will EVER be the player we need. I didn\'t see any flashes of his physical ablitiy that would lead me to believe he\'s the answer.

I saw Sam Mills his first year. I knew right away he was special.

I\'ve seen many more MLB in their first year that at least \"flashed\" signs of greatness.

If I were a betting man, and I am, I would say Watson is going to be average.

Considering MLB is one of the most important positions on defense, I think this should be a BIG priority.

About Colby Bockwoldt.... I don\'t know what any of you saw. But I saw a 6th round draft pick making a lot of plays on his own. I was very impressed with this kid. I\'m not sold, but I\'m very optimistic about him.

James Allen........ I really didn\'t see him do that much. He deserves another look. And I\'m not saying any of our linebackers don\'t deserve another shot of being the starters.

But, IMO, it\'s just too big of a risk going with who we have or bringing in some other middle of the road prospects.

IMO, we either need to draft a highly rated LB or bring one in in FA.

I really don\'t want to go into next season with what we have and have no altenative.

So.........while Haslett is trying to upgrade the saftety position... I\'m concerned about LBs...

OK Billy, how would you rank our LB\'s going into next year?
And your concerned about replacing Watson?
LMAO!
I\'d say Watson has showed more in his rookie year than any LB on this team has ever shown.

[Edited on 4/2/2005 by Danno]

GumboBC · 02-04-2005, 03:03 PM

OK Billy, how would you rank our LB\'s going into next year?
And your concerned about replacing Watson?
LMAO!
I\'d say Watson has showed more in his rookie year than any LB on this team has ever shown.

Danno -

You\'re a smart guy. But saying that Watson is the best linebacker on this Saints team isn\'t exactly a ringing endorsement!!

Instead, I think that shows you how weak we are at linebacker.

You want me to feel confindent with only having Watson at the \"critical\" MLB spot? Not happening.

And you want me to feel comfortable with Watson \'cause that\'s the best we got?

Not today........Not tomorrow.....And not come first game of next year either.

I wonder how many teams Watson would be starting on other than the Saints?

Tampa? No.
Falcons? No.
Carolina. No.
Dallas? No.
Rams? No.
Philly? No.
Green Bay? No.
Buffalo? No.
Jets? No.
Pittsburg? No.

Should I go on? Because I could probably list 25 teams that Watson would not start on.

I\'m glad you feel good. I only wish I did.

saintswhodi · 02-04-2005, 03:13 PM

I think that\'s why most of us want to get Hartwell or Bell. Then Watson could move to the outside. Unless he gets bigger and stronger, then I would be very satisfied with him on the middle.

BlackandBlue · 02-04-2005, 03:21 PM

I never said he would be pro-bowl. But I\'m not ready to give up on a player after his rookie season. I saw him make some plays. They were few and far between, but he made a few. I chalked that up to rookie errors.

All I\'m saying is its mighty risky.

I\'ll give you that. But that can be said about any draft pick, across the board, regardless of when he was selected.

I won\'t be passing judgement on any rookie after his first season, with the exception of the 1st rounder. To a degree, they are the only one\'s (outside of a few exceptions) that are expected to not only start, but make an impact on the team. Will Smith is a perfect example. He made plays for this defense. It took him a few games to get the feel for the NFL, but he progressed throughout the season.

If you look at the top linebackers in the NFL, more times than not, they were highly rated coming out of college and were 1st round draft picks..

You are 100% correct. Every playmaking MLB that pops into mind was selected in the 1st round. Fletcher and Bruschi are the ONLY two that I can think of that was not selected in the 1st, and that\'s a long list. Morgan, Wilson, Barrett, Urlacher, Lewis, Brookings, Vilma, Brooks...so yes, I think the odds are with you in that aspect.

[Edited on 4/2/2005 by BlackandBlue]

02-04-2005, 01:01 PM	#1
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	One more time... Our linebackers!! First, I wanna talk about Courtney Watson. Watson has had only one year, and I understand that. But, I saw nothing in 2004 that convinces me he will EVER be the player we need. I didn't see any flashes of his physical ablitiy that would lead me to believe he's the answer. I saw Sam Mills his first year. I knew right away he was special. I've seen many more MLB in their first year that at least "flashed" signs of greatness. If I were a betting man, and I am, I would say Watson is going to be average. Considering MLB is one of the most important positions on defense, I think this should be a BIG priority. About Colby Bockwoldt.... I don't know what any of you saw. But I saw a 6th round draft pick making a lot of plays on his own. I was very impressed with this kid. I'm not sold, but I'm very optimistic about him. James Allen........ I really didn't see him do that much. He deserves another look. And I'm not saying any of our linebackers don't deserve another shot of being the starters. But, IMO, it's just too big of a risk going with who we have or bringing in some other middle of the road prospects. IMO, we either need to draft a highly rated LB or bring one in in FA. I really don't want to go into next season with what we have and have no altenative. So.........while Haslett is trying to upgrade the saftety position... I'm concerned about LBs...
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-04-2005, 01:28 PM	#2
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	One more time... Our linebackers!! Let me see if I get this straight You\'re predicting Watson to be average, after his first year, yet, you think Allen deserves a 2nd look after his 3rd season? Al Wilson and Dan Morgan must have looked pretty average to you in their rookie seasons as well.

02-04-2005, 01:44 PM	#3
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	One more time... Our linebackers!! Let me see if I get this straight You\'re predicting Watson to be average, after his first year, yet, you think Allen deserves a 2nd look after his 3rd season? Al Wilson and Dan Morgan must have looked pretty average to you in their rookie seasons as well. Watson may go on to be great. Hell, I really don\'t know. But, what I do know is there is just a big of a chance that he will never be anything but average. He wasn\'t considered to be a big time player coming out of college. Which is why he went in the 2nd round. If you look at the top linebackers in the NFL, more times than not, they were highly rated coming out of college and were 1st round draft picks.. I may have said the same thing about Al Wilson and Dan Morgan. And those two players have done well. But, BlackandBlue, what makes you think Courtney Watson is going to be a probowl player. All I\'m saying is its mighty risky.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-04-2005, 02:26 PM	#4
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	One more time... Our linebackers!! Was Sam Mills even drafted? Didn\'t he come from the USFL or something with Mora? Seth Joyner was an 8th round lb. Boss Bailer was 2nd round. E.J. Henderson was also. Will witherspoon was 3rd round. Larry Foote who is a stud for Pittsburgh was 1 4th rounder, Andra Davis for Cleveland was a 5th rounder. So I guess I can see both of your points. Gumbo, first rounders generally produce better LBs than later, but later LBs can be quite successful. There seems to be no clear cut line as to where they are drafted produces what kinda talent. Robert Thomas for St. Luois ain\'t that great and he was a first rounder. Nick Barnett for the Packers is okay but he was a first rounder. Buffalo drafted Erik flowers in the first round in 2000 I don\'t think he has ever done much. Basically all this just says it\'s too early to tell.

02-04-2005, 02:39 PM	#5
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	One more time... Our linebackers!! saintwhodi -- It is too early to tell about Watson. And I don\'t have the exact numbers on the success or 1st round LBs vs. those drafted in the 2nd round or lower. My guess is, 1st round draft choices do better than the late round picks. I think the futher you go down in the draft, the more the odds decrease that you find a keeper. That\'s really not the point I was trying to make, though.. My whole arguement is based on my belief that the MLB position is one of the most important on defense. And that\'s where Courtney Watson resides. If it were outside linebacker, I wouldn\'t be as concerned. But, it\'s middle linebacker and I am very concerned... It\'s not that I think Courtney Watson can\'t get it done. It\'s that I think its too risky and try. At least for this upcoming year. I would get a proven MLB or draft a highly rated one and increase my odds that we have properly addressed the MLB position. If not, then we have no other options at MLB next year. It\'s Watson or bust... That doesn\'t exactly leave me feeling comfortable. If we did find a stud MLB, Watson could always move to the outside or be used in situational duty...
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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02-04-2005, 02:50 PM	#7
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,715	One more time... Our linebackers!! First, I wanna talk about Courtney Watson. Watson has had only one year, and I understand that. But, I saw nothing in 2004 that convinces me he will EVER be the player we need. I didn\'t see any flashes of his physical ablitiy that would lead me to believe he\'s the answer. I saw Sam Mills his first year. I knew right away he was special. I\'ve seen many more MLB in their first year that at least \"flashed\" signs of greatness. If I were a betting man, and I am, I would say Watson is going to be average. Considering MLB is one of the most important positions on defense, I think this should be a BIG priority. About Colby Bockwoldt.... I don\'t know what any of you saw. But I saw a 6th round draft pick making a lot of plays on his own. I was very impressed with this kid. I\'m not sold, but I\'m very optimistic about him. James Allen........ I really didn\'t see him do that much. He deserves another look. And I\'m not saying any of our linebackers don\'t deserve another shot of being the starters. But, IMO, it\'s just too big of a risk going with who we have or bringing in some other middle of the road prospects. IMO, we either need to draft a highly rated LB or bring one in in FA. I really don\'t want to go into next season with what we have and have no altenative. So.........while Haslett is trying to upgrade the saftety position... I\'m concerned about LBs... OK Billy, how would you rank our LB\'s going into next year? And your concerned about replacing Watson? LMAO! I\'d say Watson has showed more in his rookie year than any LB on this team has ever shown. [Edited on 4/2/2005 by Danno]

02-04-2005, 03:03 PM	#8
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	One more time... Our linebackers!! OK Billy, how would you rank our LB\'s going into next year? And your concerned about replacing Watson? LMAO! I\'d say Watson has showed more in his rookie year than any LB on this team has ever shown. Danno - You\'re a smart guy. But saying that Watson is the best linebacker on this Saints team isn\'t exactly a ringing endorsement!! Instead, I think that shows you how weak we are at linebacker. You want me to feel confindent with only having Watson at the \"critical\" MLB spot? Not happening. And you want me to feel comfortable with Watson \'cause that\'s the best we got? Not today........Not tomorrow.....And not come first game of next year either. I wonder how many teams Watson would be starting on other than the Saints? Tampa? No. Falcons? No. Carolina. No. Dallas? No. Rams? No. Philly? No. Green Bay? No. Buffalo? No. Jets? No. Pittsburg? No. Should I go on? Because I could probably list 25 teams that Watson would not start on. I\'m glad you feel good. I only wish I did.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-04-2005, 03:13 PM	#9
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	One more time... Our linebackers!! I think that\'s why most of us want to get Hartwell or Bell. Then Watson could move to the outside. Unless he gets bigger and stronger, then I would be very satisfied with him on the middle.

02-04-2005, 03:21 PM	#10
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	One more time... Our linebackers!! I never said he would be pro-bowl. But I\'m not ready to give up on a player after his rookie season. I saw him make some plays. They were few and far between, but he made a few. I chalked that up to rookie errors. All I\'m saying is its mighty risky. I\'ll give you that. But that can be said about any draft pick, across the board, regardless of when he was selected. I won\'t be passing judgement on any rookie after his first season, with the exception of the 1st rounder. To a degree, they are the only one\'s (outside of a few exceptions) that are expected to not only start, but make an impact on the team. Will Smith is a perfect example. He made plays for this defense. It took him a few games to get the feel for the NFL, but he progressed throughout the season. If you look at the top linebackers in the NFL, more times than not, they were highly rated coming out of college and were 1st round draft picks.. You are 100% correct. Every playmaking MLB that pops into mind was selected in the 1st round. Fletcher and Bruschi are the ONLY two that I can think of that was not selected in the 1st, and that\'s a long list. Morgan, Wilson, Barrett, Urlacher, Lewis, Brookings, Vilma, Brooks...so yes, I think the odds are with you in that aspect. [Edited on 4/2/2005 by BlackandBlue]
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?