Have you given up yet?
 

I know this sounds ridiculous. I know it sounds like banter from an old Saints fan that just "doesn't get it."

But here's my take:

I was a fan when the bags were on people's heads. I was a fan when nothing seemed to go right...ever..for years. This team seems much like that one. Hell, the offense was given plenty of opportunities to put this atrocious game away. The defense bended. It broke. The offense sputtered and it came up dry. Everything that could go bad did.

I won't judge a fan that thinks this team is awful. That it's done. That the 2015 Saints are just plain terrible.

But I'm not done. This team isn't either. It's week 2. And yes I know people are calling for the heads of Sean Payton, Mickey Loomis, Drew Brees and God knows who else.

But I'm not. I still believe in this team. And I really think they believe in themselves.

This is a different team than last year. It's young. And injured. And hungry.

I'm not saying this team is going to run the schedule from here on out. We may not win the division or make the playoffs. But its got some guts. It's got some character. It's definitely more than what we had last year and I'm not giving up on them.

So say what you want. This team will learn from mistakes. The Saints may not be the best team in the NFC South, but they're learning.

As far as I'm concerned, we didn't learn anything from this week except that we need to fix some problems.

That's my take. This team is not an 0-2 team. It just needs more time to get these young kids rolling.

I'm not giving up. And I truly hope and believe the Saints and their fans aren't either.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

I'm not giving up as in not watching or caring anymore. But I don't have any confidence in them. I see a few hungry players, but I don't see a hungry team. Sorry to say it, but it's the only conclusion I can come to at this point.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

The young kids showed up,,,,,Cooks, kikaha, Anthony, Swann, and even Coleman. Where was Brees, Strief, and Hicks?





I am not giving up on them but my expectation for a victory is gone. I will now just be hopeful that we win. I am worn out from being depressed all week over a loss. Facing the facts that Brees have the mental abilities to be a elite qb but not the physical. That throw to cooks would've been a td back in the day but turnout to be interception. I will ALWAYS root for the saints, no paper bags for me but I also want be entering in the debates on who the best 2015 nfc south team

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

As much as Payton and Loomis are lauded for the free agent signing of Brees in 2006, they should also be vilified for releasing Harper and Jenkins 2 years ago.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

What we learned IMHO ist that this probably is the best draft we have had since 2006. Just Anthony and Kikaha would make it so. Those two guys are going to be great. It is so exciting to see them play. Swann looks good too.
Its to early to pass judgement on Grayson, Peat or Murphy yet but I see great potential there too.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

I'm not giving up! There's still plenty of games to play yet! Next game against the Panthers will be a tough test though!

GEAUX SAINTS!!

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

This I cannot agree with. We don't need those guys, and I sure don't miss them. We only had the worst defense in history with those two. I'm not saying it was all them, but they obviously weren't helping.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Like jnormand I have seen it all from day 1 at Tulane stadium. I am here and always will here as a saints fan. Most of us old timers did not drink the koolaid and look at a team like this as a starting place for what will come.

Is there a foundation to build on? I have seen worse so there is a plus. Now the hard question.

How long will it take? Can not take as long as it did before just to become a winner. Or will it? fan in me says nahhhh

Lessons learned? Mickie magic pencil can only do so much year in and year out.

Quick look at our team
Average age 26.15 not bad ranks us 17th in the NFL.
Rams are the youngest team at 24.98. How did they do it? The draft. The cap will catch up to them just like the sea hawks.

Now here is the real issue at hand
2015 New Orleans Saints ranked 32 in the cap
Cap money used? $145,092,430
Cap space left $56,406

Dead money? $30,784,986

There in lies the issue at hand. that is a lot of talent we can not field for whatever issue.

When do we honestly have a shot of getting out from under this mess?

2016 cap money spent? $151,699,720
oppsss over by $-1,699,720 not bad we have seen worse. A silver lining?
Dead cap? $14,893,097 getting better but still #1 in the NFL. Then again anything looks better after 2015

2017 cap money spent? $87,684,281

So without getting bogged down in even more money talk. The way I look at this team in 2015 and the team in 2016 is a simplistic view of expectations.

Can we field a competitive team while getting younger and even cheaper by 2017?

Hard question will be letting Drew walk to chase the ring before he hangs up his cleats and live with a high comp pick in return?

Either way 2017 is the magic year and with some luck and some divine intervention in the draft we might be ready to make a push for the promise land yet again

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Well, this team is going the same place (or worse) than it did last year. Saints will not make the palyoffs, but the team will do just enough to give fans false hope until December and then fold. We're 2 weeks in and in a 4 game hole to 2 teams in our won division.

We have no pass rush. We have poor ball control. We have poor execution. The offenseive line is porous. Sean Peyton's "fire" has been gone since 2012. We're an unimagniative, poor execution team with no tempo. Will I stil root for the team no matter what? of course, but the 2015 Saints are done before they ever got started.

Atlanta will win our division this year and flop in the palyoffs.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Nope.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Out of those six, likely just Unger and KVac will remain with the team. So yeah, cap will be better. But we'll need to nail our drafts in the next couple of years.

I guess Saints management has not learned from the school of New England Patriots, the very organization they touted as trying to model after.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

If you are old enough to remember the paper bags, then you are also presumably old enough to remember the massive scandal of widespread cocaine use among Saints players on those teams, such as George Rodgers, Chuck Muncie, Don Reese, Mike Strachan, and a host of others. And you are probably also old enough to remember the days of Kenny Stabler rolling into the Dome, still hungover from being out drinking the night before.

This team is very similar to those Saints teams. This roster is full of guys passed out drunk behind the wheel, guys getting in fights on the beach, guys with discipline or motivation problems, and they just recently had an incident with as many as ten Saints players in a club, at 4 AM. That's 20% of the roster. Now I'm sorry to be the Debbie Downer that breaks the news to people, but nobody ever won a football championship, in a club at 4 AM. You party AFTER the season, or AFTER you win the game -- not before.

To me the results on the field DO look like a team that was out in the club until 4 AM. They seem slow, gassed, uncoordinated, unfocused, like their energy level is off. They are getting manhandled and blown away, by superior athletes and better coaching. And like those horrible Saints teams of the paper bag era, what you see on the field is inexplicably bad, it doesn't add up, and the coaches are hapless and don't have control over the players...

Now I don't know any first hand inside information about this, of course...But I'll put it this way -- the way this team looks, would you be at all surprised this season, if we wake up one morning to find news that one or multiple Saints players on this team, have been busted by either the cops or the league, for violating the league's substance abuse policy....would YOU really be surprised, if that news came out tomorrow, that a lot of these guys (not Drew) were smoking weed or popping pills?

I'm not giving up, but that's what they look like to me, on the field. Too much partying. Something is off with this team, mentally and/or physically. Something is definitely not right.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

My take is that this team does not have much fire or discipline. Someone mentioned aa while back that Sean changed after the bountygate crap and it seems to be true. I wonder if the players performance is proof of that? They sure don't seem motivated to want to play for him. A lot of these teams with new coaches may not all be good,but if you watch them play,they seem to be driven and play hard.The whole defensive coaching staff and our O line coach needs to go but nothing will change and that's my biggest problem with Sean. I agree with the moves they made with players,but yet we seem to have the same problem. There's only one other place to point fingers at but it continues to be ignored.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Heck. I never give up. Saints are my team whether 0-2, 3-9, or 13-2.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

I wont give up on the team but on the season if we dont change this o line...Peat struggled in camp but we almost have no choice with Strief just leaving the door open for D lineman to run through

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Giving up is NOT an option.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

The team is flat, the fans are flat (at least in the Dome), and there is no cohesion to be to found.
Winning some games will change that hopefully, but it seems like most "fans" are just waiting for the other foot to drop, be it turn-over, defensive collapse, or whatever.

As far as giving up, No Way - No How, they can turn this thing around.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

This scene comes to mind.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

If Drew is injured and needs to sit for a game or two i say throw in the backup and let Peat get some reps.

Tim is a turnstile at guard so far. We have no one to replace him with anyways. All the backups are a huge drop off.

Sacrificing a back up QB for the sake of developing your #1 draft pick? Pretty dam cold huh?At least we have a third QB that needs some reps. on the bright side he is the fastest of the three.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Look here boys, were going in to hell who's coming? WHO DAT!!!

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Let me grab a 12 pack and a bottle....I'm coming along for the ride.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

For this season, no, but based on where we sit today, I can see it from here.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

16-0 or 0-16, as long as the Saints are in New Orleans I will be a proud member of WhoDat Nation!

I wear my Saints cap to work everyday and when I go out in public.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

I paid for all the rides when I signed on as a Saints fan. It's been a roller coaster ride so far. Hold on ya'll.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

As far as I'm concerned, once a Saints fan, ALWAYS a Saints fan!!!!!

GEAUX SAINTS!!!!! :-)

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

12 of that 14 million in dead money is because of Junior F'ing Galette.:mad:

If Junior hadn't gone psycho on us we'd be in fantastic shape next year.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Once Payton & the Saints achieved winning the super bowl it appeared that was satisfying enough for them. Rather than wanting another super bowl they sat on that win. Now at 0-2 one thing is for certain they will not be
16-0. I wish I could say they can rebound but after this year being a continuation of last year I just don't see any improvement. I don't think they will go 0-16 either. It would take a miracle for them to bounce back to 14-2 and they haven't had a miracle since that super bowl year.
This doesn't mean I am not a fan. I was around when the team was awarded to the city & had season tickets for years and never wore a bag.
Once you have tasted the glory of being world champs everything else seems mediocre. We aren't even a competitive team.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

We could certainly come back and take the division. But it's gonna be a big gut check. The biggest hurdle we will have, along with Brees' shoulder, is Payton's approach. He needs to light a fire under this team and needs to prove he's capable of doing that as he certainly hasn't thus far.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Meanwhile up here in Indy..........Every local radio Sports Talk Show has Rick Venturi on. I admit he knows what he is talking about I understand why he's been a head coach but knowing what you see and being able to get others "Players" to see what he knows are two different things.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

I love hearing Rick explain plays in layman's terms. I wish we had him here on our local radio station.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Super Bowl - yes
Playoffs - 98% yes
Winning record - 85% yes

The Saints in general - NEVER

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Fantastic OP, Jnormand.
I support all you've said.

Not only do I not give up, but I believe there is a good chance we will recover during the season, and possibly early enough to make a difference and, even
possibly become contenders again.

I disagree w those of you supposing their lack of hunger. I dont think there's anyone here who has any real indicator of their mental/emotional status. Its one thing when a player melts down on or off field, but Ive seen no evidence, aside from a lack of cheerleading, that shows that these guys arent 100% in. "You dont know... you think you know... but you dont... know... ."

They exercise every day, they practice all the time, and they read their playbooks. No one who has ever spilled coffee on something expensive should judge someone who makes a mistake.

I'll show up win or lose, and any win is a good win. Its like the old days, when all you wanted to do was beat Atlanta or Dallas. Lets build on that, and those of you who make it to the Dome do your best to raise hell!

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

I'm a Saints fan 100% but as far as winning a wildcard spot or being a contender this season I'm not drinking the kool-aid. I do think later in the season our D has the talent to do better and will but our O-line is troubled and want get better. I thought Strief had 1 more good year in him but Evans is done, Lelito gets man-handled that leaves Unger and Armstead as the only 2 getting it done. Against good to stout D's that line will not hold up.Brees or no Brees.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Can't give up yet!
Way too soon to throw in the towel after round two.
We haven't even been knocked down yet, much less knocked out.
We've been hit pretty good and hopefully the pain becomes a wake up call.
Two down with 14+ to go.
Ugly as it is I'm still hopeful because we can score enough to win.
Our offense has been ugly and we still have scored enough to win.
If we can get any kind of defense at all things turn our way.
Just pick one (run stuff, pass rush, lock down coverage)...just become good at ONE of them.
At the moment we aren't any good at any of them.
Any ONE of them will boost the other two.
I am well acquainted with Saints Ugly.
Me and that girl go way back.
I know that those guys know they can play cleaner and crisper.
When it happens, we're 2-and-2 and then 4-2 and then...
Who knows?
Who Dat!

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Love you optimism. I share it to an extent.

Give up? No way.

But we have been knocked down. To the bottom of the conference in fact
19 points per game will not get it done
And an aged QB with a bum wing does not inspire confidence
I'm confident this defense will improve with the return of Lewis and Byrd
I'm not confident our offense will handle a top 15 defense IF we make the playoffs

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

I've seen a lot of good ones, and certainly a lot of bad ones recently, but this to me is the best post I've seen in a while.

This is a great forum, thanks for the thread Jnormand!

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

I don't think this team is going nowhere. I like a few of the younger players they just are not ready yet. Our starters are non existent and overmatched. So the young one's are thrown in there. That does not make me less a Saints fan. It's not reasonable to think that all of a sudden we are going to be that much better. It may be a painful season to watch.

Re: Have you given up yet?
 

Hell yes. I hope we take it to the Panthers and make Scam cry.