Cha Cha Changes!

GumboBC · 02-11-2005, 10:11 AM

So far this offseason, I've heard fans screaming for changes. And not just a change here or there, either!

If you listen to some fans, a complete overhaul is needed!

Just off the top of my head, here's some changes that have been suggested many times!

Aaron Brooks = gone!
Victor Riley = gone!
Wayne Gandy = gone!
Jon Sullivan = gone!
Fred Thomas = gone!
Tebucky Jones = gone!
Jay Bellamy = gone!
James Allen = gone!
Fakir Brown = gone!
Ernie Conwell = gone!
Derrick Rodgers = gone!
Orlando Ruff = gone!
Jim Haslett = gone!
Mike McCarthy = gone!
Rick Venturi = gone!

Then there are some players fans are unsure about:

Boo Williams
Courtney Watson
Colby Bockwaldt

That's 12-players fans want gone. 3 they're unsure about. And the entire coaching staff. Oh, and ol' Tom Benson needs to sell the team too!

What does that leave us?

Deuce McAllister
Le' Charles Bentley
Montre' Holland
Charles Grant
Will Smith
Darren Howard
Brian Young
Mike McKenzie
Joe Horn
Donte' Stallworth
Jerome Pathon
Michael Lewis

For a team that finished 8-8, fans sure do want to make some drastic changes.

[Edited on 11/2/2005 by GumboBC]

baronm · 02-11-2005, 10:20 AM

Aaron Brooks = gone!
Victor Riley = gone!
Wayne Gandy = gone!
Jon Sullivan = gone!
Fred Thomas = gone!
Tebucky Jones = gone!
Jay Bellamy = gone!
James Allen = gone!
Fakir Brown = gone!
Ernie Conwell = gone!
Derrick Rodgers = gone!
Orlando Ruff = gone!

actually that sounds good-

basically gumbo what I want is to get rid of the players that aren\'t hungry and performing and put players who are in their place..

build a team like the patriots that is relatively deep and hungry to win games.

complacency must go.

worst case scenario-we loose bad and then have higher draft picks./..but 8-8 with no playoffs is the worst form of hell.

WD52 · 02-11-2005, 10:26 AM

I would keep James Allen, he with the two rookies, proved they are valueable and play well together. there are a few others I would keep around Thomas for nickel(we need another CB to pair with Mack....... and I still have Hope for Tebuck, we just need someone else to push him and play opposite of him...... and untill we find suitable replacements Riley and Gandy have to stay around.... Haz needs some Better coaches around him and I think I would let him have one more year due to no better replacement on the market...... Aalso Fakir Brown, could be a dime back, unless we ad two corners.........

The Brooks Situation is like this, I would not give hime away, and, would Prefer a proven Vetern to replace him or keep him this year and Draft a Hell of a Prospect!!!!!!!!!!!!

But they do need to mow down alot of players and staff!!!!!!!!!
:bigun2: I do not want to be 8-8 and out of the playoffs again this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LKelley67 · 02-11-2005, 10:39 AM

kuddos gumbo you sure know how to get a provocative thread going. lol

for 32-32 over four years, no playoff appearances, play characterized at best as erratic, and recognition in the press and across the country as being the most underachieving team in the nfl... yes, i do think major overhaul is warranted.

i agree with much of that list but feel we are stuck with most of them-
brooks= stuck, i\'d take a 2nd rounder to unload his fat contract
riley= resigning him would almost be as bad as venturi keeping his job
gandy= might be too spendy for his declining skills, i\'d like him cheaper at rt for a yr
sullivan= torture him in practice if he wont play
thomas= over the hill as a starter but a veteran backup, keep for cheap
tebucky= stuck with his big ass contract, he got better, maybe almost average now
bellamy= over the hill too, vet backup role at best
allen= keep n sign for what he is worth, no more
fakir= i like how he has come on, not thoroughly convinced but ready to see him try for a whole season
conwell= decent ,but another quickly aging vet, good locker room presence i read
rodgers= he\'s okay until we get full fledged lb\'s
ruff= if you are a vet that cant keep a starting lb job on the saints that sez enough, role player/back up

watson and bock deserve to play. boo drives ya nuts with drops and his antics but will have to do till someone else better comes along

yeah, cha cha change. change is good and inherent in growth. if the contending franchises fade by stagnation how much more will a 32-32 design?

WD52 · 02-11-2005, 10:55 AM

Again, LKelley67 we mosly,agree..... I beleive thomas and Brown can serve as nickle and Dime, how ever you organize them, We need another Mckenzie though....
as far as Riley goes I agree he needs to go but we need to improve that Position, Gandy at best a back up, we need serious O line help......

and Yes I can\'t give up on Sully either just yet, but I wasn\'t going to post that untill I had some one else on record, some one needs to Kick His @$$ into shape!!!!!

Motivation Motivation Motivation!!!!!
The Saints Need SOME HUNGRY PLAYERS, Cheap or expensive I don\'t care, as Long as the have the Desire to be champions!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danno · 02-11-2005, 10:55 AM

Aaron Brooks = Change only if an equal or better option available
Wayne Gandy = Keeper. He\'s not bad, his main problem is his name isn\'t Willie Roaf
Jon Sullivan = Cheaper to keep her. But gone if he comes in outta shape again
Fred Thomas = Keep as nickle back. Cap hit to high to justify cutting him
Tebucky Jones = Keeper, but bring in some real competition. Gleason ain\'t it.
Jay Bellamy = Bring in comp, and let Mel have a shot.
James Allen = Cheap player. Keep, at worst a solid back-up.
Fakir Brown = Who the heck is saying that. Our most improved player and 2nd best CB? Not buying the gone.
Ernie Conwell = Serviceable. Better than Boo, but bring in some serious comp.
Derrick Rodgers = Serviceable. Not great but would be a good back-up.
Orlando Ruff = Good back-up. Keep unless we land a few more MLB\'s via Draft and FA.
Jim Haslett = gone! Agreed
Mike McCarthy = gone! Agreed
Rick Venturi = gone! Agreed, wholeheartedly.

Then there are some players fans are unsure about:

Boo Williams-I rather keep Conwell
Courtney Watson-Our best LB rates an \"unsure\"? Sorry, not buying that one.
Colby Bockwaldt-Near league minimum, and a good special teamer. definitely a keeper with upside.

WD52 · 02-11-2005, 11:23 AM

Gumbo, How can you argue with the play of the Line backers the last four games, I remind you that those were the only four games those 3 LB\'s played together..... I agree bring in comp, but let watson, bocwoldt,and Allen have there Jobs taken by much superior athletes with Desire!!!!!!

The Main Reason Bockwoldt is so good in My opinion is his Drive Desire and love of the game!!!! come on a 7 round pick he has somthing to prove, and as far as Watson, He and Wil smith are the only two rookies in the last couple of drafts to imediatly fit there billing, wasn\'t watson a 4th rounder? He is pretty good....... I do not think Talent is the Saints main Problem I think it is Desire and Heart :heartpump:

:heartpump:

P.S. By the way since I edited this post that was originally aimed at dano cause\" I CAN\'T READ LOL!!!!!\" It doesn\'t actually apply to Gumbo either as he stated: \"Some fans are unsure of those players, which does not nescassarily means he is unsure of them........\" OK we all clear LOL

The post made sense to me at one point so I am leaving it LOL!!!!!

:killtard:

[Edited on 11/2/2005 by WD52]

GumboBC · 02-11-2005, 11:29 AM

Well, at least this got some good discussion going.

I really wanted to see how everyone felt about all these changes that have been suggested!

On defense, I don\'t think we\'re that far away from a talent standpoint. I feel \"scheming\" is the big factor here. Will the \"scheming\" from the last 4 games carry over? Don\'t get me wrong. We need a COUPLE of players on defense.

On offense ... I don\'t think we\'re that far away either. Replace Gandy and Riley and I think that will go a long ways towards making our running game and our passing game much better.

Overhaul? No! Need some players to improve? Yes!

WD52 · 02-11-2005, 11:40 AM

Hey Guys would you all agree that Joe Horn is probably one of the most solid players on our Team, if not the most!!!!

Now ask yourself Which players demonstrate visable Desire and look at there play!!!!!!!!!!

I Think Horn Desires a Superbowl more thatn any other really visable player on the Team.....

Likewise I look at Bockwoldt, and a few others the same way...... just to name a few you can notice desire in Howard, Smith, Grant, Lewis, Young, Mckenzie, Mcafee, Bentley, Watson, and yes Mcalister, I also think the fullback Karney has heart........ I would almost Dump everyone else!!!!!!!!! and start from scratch!!!!!!!!!!!

Those that I believe exibit the least heart and desire in no order is: Brooks, Sullivan, Riley, somtimes tbuck, and stalworth make me question them..........

I am sure there are names in both list that I left out and other names that do not fit that well but that is how I see it watching the games!!!!!!!!!!!

GumboBC · 02-11-2005, 11:51 AM

WD52 -

Playing with heart and desire are very important. But, how much insight can be gained into a player\'s heart by watching 60 minutes of football every weekend is not a lot to go on, IMO.

To be totally honest, I don\'t see Deuce playing with any heart. I don\'t see anyone on the offense playing with a lot of heart except Joe Horn.

But that doesn\'t mean they don\'t want to win and it doesn\'t mean they don\'t play with heart or a burning desire to win.

We, as fans, don\'t know these guys. We don\'t know how bad they want to win. And, IMO, cutting someone because we don\'t see them playing with heart is not a wise thing to do.

The coaches get to see these guys practice. They get to talk to them every day.

While we might not have the best coaches, they have a much better idea of what\'s inside of the players. And, IMO, they are much better suited to make those determinations.

02-11-2005, 10:11 AM	#1
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Cha Cha Changes! So far this offseason, I've heard fans screaming for changes. And not just a change here or there, either! If you listen to some fans, a complete overhaul is needed! Just off the top of my head, here's some changes that have been suggested many times! Aaron Brooks = gone! Victor Riley = gone! Wayne Gandy = gone! Jon Sullivan = gone! Fred Thomas = gone! Tebucky Jones = gone! Jay Bellamy = gone! James Allen = gone! Fakir Brown = gone! Ernie Conwell = gone! Derrick Rodgers = gone! Orlando Ruff = gone! Jim Haslett = gone! Mike McCarthy = gone! Rick Venturi = gone! Then there are some players fans are unsure about: Boo Williams Courtney Watson Colby Bockwaldt That's 12-players fans want gone. 3 they're unsure about. And the entire coaching staff. Oh, and ol' Tom Benson needs to sell the team too! What does that leave us? Deuce McAllister Le' Charles Bentley Montre' Holland Charles Grant Will Smith Darren Howard Brian Young Mike McKenzie Joe Horn Donte' Stallworth Jerome Pathon Michael Lewis For a team that finished 8-8, fans sure do want to make some drastic changes. [Edited on 11/2/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-11-2005, 10:20 AM	#2
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Cha Cha Changes! Aaron Brooks = gone! Victor Riley = gone! Wayne Gandy = gone! Jon Sullivan = gone! Fred Thomas = gone! Tebucky Jones = gone! Jay Bellamy = gone! James Allen = gone! Fakir Brown = gone! Ernie Conwell = gone! Derrick Rodgers = gone! Orlando Ruff = gone! actually that sounds good- basically gumbo what I want is to get rid of the players that aren\'t hungry and performing and put players who are in their place.. build a team like the patriots that is relatively deep and hungry to win games. complacency must go. worst case scenario-we loose bad and then have higher draft picks./..but 8-8 with no playoffs is the worst form of hell.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

02-11-2005, 10:26 AM	#3
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	Cha Cha Changes! I would keep James Allen, he with the two rookies, proved they are valueable and play well together. there are a few others I would keep around Thomas for nickel(we need another CB to pair with Mack....... and I still have Hope for Tebuck, we just need someone else to push him and play opposite of him...... and untill we find suitable replacements Riley and Gandy have to stay around.... Haz needs some Better coaches around him and I think I would let him have one more year due to no better replacement on the market...... Aalso Fakir Brown, could be a dime back, unless we ad two corners......... The Brooks Situation is like this, I would not give hime away, and, would Prefer a proven Vetern to replace him or keep him this year and Draft a Hell of a Prospect!!!!!!!!!!!! But they do need to mow down alot of players and staff!!!!!!!!! :bigun2: I do not want to be 8-8 and out of the playoffs again this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	\"I live in a Van down by the River!!!\"

02-11-2005, 10:39 AM	#4
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Cha Cha Changes! kuddos gumbo you sure know how to get a provocative thread going. lol for 32-32 over four years, no playoff appearances, play characterized at best as erratic, and recognition in the press and across the country as being the most underachieving team in the nfl... yes, i do think major overhaul is warranted. i agree with much of that list but feel we are stuck with most of them- brooks= stuck, i\'d take a 2nd rounder to unload his fat contract riley= resigning him would almost be as bad as venturi keeping his job gandy= might be too spendy for his declining skills, i\'d like him cheaper at rt for a yr sullivan= torture him in practice if he wont play thomas= over the hill as a starter but a veteran backup, keep for cheap tebucky= stuck with his big ass contract, he got better, maybe almost average now bellamy= over the hill too, vet backup role at best allen= keep n sign for what he is worth, no more fakir= i like how he has come on, not thoroughly convinced but ready to see him try for a whole season conwell= decent ,but another quickly aging vet, good locker room presence i read rodgers= he\'s okay until we get full fledged lb\'s ruff= if you are a vet that cant keep a starting lb job on the saints that sez enough, role player/back up watson and bock deserve to play. boo drives ya nuts with drops and his antics but will have to do till someone else better comes along yeah, cha cha change. change is good and inherent in growth. if the contending franchises fade by stagnation how much more will a 32-32 design?

02-11-2005, 10:55 AM	#5
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	Cha Cha Changes! Again, LKelley67 we mosly,agree..... I beleive thomas and Brown can serve as nickle and Dime, how ever you organize them, We need another Mckenzie though.... as far as Riley goes I agree he needs to go but we need to improve that Position, Gandy at best a back up, we need serious O line help...... and Yes I can\'t give up on Sully either just yet, but I wasn\'t going to post that untill I had some one else on record, some one needs to Kick His @$$ into shape!!!!! Motivation Motivation Motivation!!!!! The Saints Need SOME HUNGRY PLAYERS, Cheap or expensive I don\'t care, as Long as the have the Desire to be champions!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	\"I live in a Van down by the River!!!\"

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02-11-2005, 10:55 AM	#6
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,725	Cha Cha Changes! Aaron Brooks = Change only if an equal or better option available Wayne Gandy = Keeper. He\'s not bad, his main problem is his name isn\'t Willie Roaf Jon Sullivan = Cheaper to keep her. But gone if he comes in outta shape again Fred Thomas = Keep as nickle back. Cap hit to high to justify cutting him Tebucky Jones = Keeper, but bring in some real competition. Gleason ain\'t it. Jay Bellamy = Bring in comp, and let Mel have a shot. James Allen = Cheap player. Keep, at worst a solid back-up. Fakir Brown = Who the heck is saying that. Our most improved player and 2nd best CB? Not buying the gone. Ernie Conwell = Serviceable. Better than Boo, but bring in some serious comp. Derrick Rodgers = Serviceable. Not great but would be a good back-up. Orlando Ruff = Good back-up. Keep unless we land a few more MLB\'s via Draft and FA. Jim Haslett = gone! Agreed Mike McCarthy = gone! Agreed Rick Venturi = gone! Agreed, wholeheartedly. Then there are some players fans are unsure about: Boo Williams-I rather keep Conwell Courtney Watson-Our best LB rates an \"unsure\"? Sorry, not buying that one. Colby Bockwaldt-Near league minimum, and a good special teamer. definitely a keeper with upside.

02-11-2005, 11:23 AM	#7
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	Cha Cha Changes! Gumbo, How can you argue with the play of the Line backers the last four games, I remind you that those were the only four games those 3 LB\'s played together..... I agree bring in comp, but let watson, bocwoldt,and Allen have there Jobs taken by much superior athletes with Desire!!!!!! The Main Reason Bockwoldt is so good in My opinion is his Drive Desire and love of the game!!!! come on a 7 round pick he has somthing to prove, and as far as Watson, He and Wil smith are the only two rookies in the last couple of drafts to imediatly fit there billing, wasn\'t watson a 4th rounder? He is pretty good....... I do not think Talent is the Saints main Problem I think it is Desire and Heart :heartpump: :heartpump: P.S. By the way since I edited this post that was originally aimed at dano cause\" I CAN\'T READ LOL!!!!!\" It doesn\'t actually apply to Gumbo either as he stated: \"Some fans are unsure of those players, which does not nescassarily means he is unsure of them........\" OK we all clear LOL The post made sense to me at one point so I am leaving it LOL!!!!! :killtard: [Edited on 11/2/2005 by WD52]
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	\"I live in a Van down by the River!!!\"

02-11-2005, 11:29 AM	#8
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Cha Cha Changes! Well, at least this got some good discussion going. I really wanted to see how everyone felt about all these changes that have been suggested! On defense, I don\'t think we\'re that far away from a talent standpoint. I feel \"scheming\" is the big factor here. Will the \"scheming\" from the last 4 games carry over? Don\'t get me wrong. We need a COUPLE of players on defense. On offense ... I don\'t think we\'re that far away either. Replace Gandy and Riley and I think that will go a long ways towards making our running game and our passing game much better. Overhaul? No! Need some players to improve? Yes!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-11-2005, 11:40 AM	#9
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	Cha Cha Changes! Hey Guys would you all agree that Joe Horn is probably one of the most solid players on our Team, if not the most!!!! Now ask yourself Which players demonstrate visable Desire and look at there play!!!!!!!!!! I Think Horn Desires a Superbowl more thatn any other really visable player on the Team..... Likewise I look at Bockwoldt, and a few others the same way...... just to name a few you can notice desire in Howard, Smith, Grant, Lewis, Young, Mckenzie, Mcafee, Bentley, Watson, and yes Mcalister, I also think the fullback Karney has heart........ I would almost Dump everyone else!!!!!!!!! and start from scratch!!!!!!!!!!! Those that I believe exibit the least heart and desire in no order is: Brooks, Sullivan, Riley, somtimes tbuck, and stalworth make me question them.......... I am sure there are names in both list that I left out and other names that do not fit that well but that is how I see it watching the games!!!!!!!!!!!
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	\"I live in a Van down by the River!!!\"

02-11-2005, 11:51 AM	#10
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Cha Cha Changes! WD52 - Playing with heart and desire are very important. But, how much insight can be gained into a player\'s heart by watching 60 minutes of football every weekend is not a lot to go on, IMO. To be totally honest, I don\'t see Deuce playing with any heart. I don\'t see anyone on the offense playing with a lot of heart except Joe Horn. But that doesn\'t mean they don\'t want to win and it doesn\'t mean they don\'t play with heart or a burning desire to win. We, as fans, don\'t know these guys. We don\'t know how bad they want to win. And, IMO, cutting someone because we don\'t see them playing with heart is not a wise thing to do. The coaches get to see these guys practice. They get to talk to them every day. While we might not have the best coaches, they have a much better idea of what\'s inside of the players. And, IMO, they are much better suited to make those determinations.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616