An AB Option???

saintswhodi · 02-12-2005, 10:11 PM

So what you suggest is to trade Brooks, who is not an elite QB, for an elite QB? You can\'t even do that on Madden without giving away the farm with him. Ain\'t gonna happen. Hasselbeck IS Brooks without the 55 fumbles the last 4 years and the ego. How is that NOT an improvement?

LongTimeFan · 02-12-2005, 10:25 PM

What I\'m saying is only trade Brooks for a QB that can out perform Brooks, if you can\'t do that then Keep Brooks

ScottyRo · 02-12-2005, 10:29 PM

I\'m not sure that Hass doesn\'t have an ego. The reason I might favor getting him and replacing Brooks is efficiency. AB has shown what our offense is capable of - even with someone as inconsistent as he passing. Thus, eliminate some mistakes and incompletions by inaccuracy and our O could be more efficient with Hass. However, the lingering question for me is mobility. If we do not properly address the OT position this offseason, Hass\' ability to be more efficient will be diminished.

I think this is all probably going to end up moot because he will likely re-sign with the \'Hawks because of loyalty to Holmgren.

JKool · 02-13-2005, 03:40 AM

The difference in drops between Hass and AB is 13. As I recall, Seahawks WRs droped 38 balls and Saints WRs droped 25. That isn\'t a big difference, if you ask me. Sure it is a couple of first downs, maybe a TD or two, but in terms of raw numbers, I\'m not impressed.

shadowdrinker · 02-13-2005, 03:51 AM

I saw on ESPN that Seattle LED THE LEAGUE IN DROPPED PASSES...

They were discussing the future of Hasslebeck and Alexander...

They also said that , of the 2, Alexander would be the one to go..If one were released..or traded..whatever...they expect that Seatlle will either..Tag Hasselbeck..or thier left tackle..I believe they said the LT had been tagged twice in a row..and they really didn\'t expect to see him tagged again..and..I agree...Hasslebeck is a very good QB...it\'s hard to determine just how much of an impact those dropped passes really had..a drop on 3rd down is far more costly then one on 1st...

But ..you can bet several of them came on key drives ( They did lead the league)...and might have contributed to his drop in production...

Tobias-Reiper · 02-13-2005, 08:27 AM

... Brooks has a stronger arm than Hasselbeck..
... Brooks is taller than Hasselbeck....

..that\'s the \"talent\" Brooks has over Hasselbeck...

... guess when you are tall and have a strong arm you eally don\'t need QB skills..

..had to edit to add something about the drops:

The NFL doesn\'t keep an official \"passes dropped\" count.... what constitutes a \"drop\" can be subjective: did it hit the WR in the numbers, did it hit the WR in the hands, but it really was out of reach, ect.... However, according to the stats inc website, which would apply a somewhat even definition of a \"dropped pass\" to all teams, there are teams that had as many drops as Seattle, and one that had even more... KC and Miami are credited with as many drops, and Jacksonville is credited with more than anyone else at 42...

..yet, you didn\'t hear anyone mention how many passes the Jaguars dropped, or Miami, or even KC... it was always how many passes the Seattle Seahawks drop... and there is a reason for it... if you look at Seattle\'s dropped passes, you\'ll see that a lot of those hit the WRs right in the numbers, or in the arms, well within the WRs reach...

... speaking of the credited number of passes dropped, the number my seem low, but it really isn\'t , because of the range of pass play...

... and what more can be said about Seattle, after witnessing how they ended their season...

[Edited on 13/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]

saintswhodi · 02-13-2005, 09:58 AM

Excellent post Tobias. I mentioned elsewhere Seattle\'s season enden on ANOTHER dropped pass by one of their receivers, in the endzone, in the playoffs.

I also like your AB is taller and stronger point. Classic.

JKool · 02-13-2005, 01:02 PM

So, basically what you are saying is THERE IS NO STAT FOR DROPPED PASSES AND IT IS SUBJECTIVE?

I see.

So, when someone says x or y had lots of dropped passes, there is no way to find out if it is true? In fact it is entirely possible that x had more or y had more...

Hmmmmm.

Interesting.

Tobias-Reiper · 02-13-2005, 01:48 PM

So, basically what you are saying is THERE IS NO STAT FOR DROPPED PASSES AND IT IS SUBJECTIVE?

I see.

So, when someone says x or y had lots of dropped passes, there is no way to find out if it is true? In fact it is entirely possible that x had more or y had more...

Hmmmmm.

Interesting.

..before I go on, I again feel the need to make clear that I am not a stats guy, even tough this wouldn\'t be a \"stat\" but more of a count...
now..

..what I SAID is that the NFL DOESN\"T KEEP AN OFFICIAL COUNT OF DROPPED PASSES.... but that is not to say that no one else does... there are plenty of numbers you hear out there which the NFL does not keep as \"official\" stats... Stats Inc keeps count, ESPN apparently keeps its own count... ESPN is saying the Seahawks led the league in dropped passes, while Stats Inc has Jacksonville as the one...

The NFL doesn\'t keep an official \"passes dropped\" count.

see? That\'s what I said....

... and I said that I didn\'t know the criteria used by those who do keep a count for considering a pass a \"dropped\" pass or merely an \'incompletion\", and that it could be subjective; and I also said thet even tough it may be subjective, when applied EVENLY to all teams, then it is possible to get a fair count from all teams...

However, according to the stats inc website, which would apply a somewhat even definition of a \"dropped pass\" to all teams,

..see? that\'s what I said...
I don\'t know if they count balls that hit the receiver in the chest only...
I don\'t know if they count balls that hit the receiver in the chest and/or arms..
I don\'t know if, as long as the ball hits the WR hands, they count it..
... but again, when applied evenly to all teams, it is still a valid measurement...

..so what I am basically saying is what you just read...

[Edited on 13/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]

JKool · 02-13-2005, 02:16 PM

So, basically what you are saying is THERE IS NO STAT FOR DROPPED PASSES AND IT IS SUBJECTIVE?

I see.

So, when someone says x or y had lots of dropped passes, there is no way to find out if it is true? In fact it is entirely possible that x had more or y had more...

Hmmmmm.

Interesting.

02-12-2005, 10:11 PM	#41
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	An AB Option??? So what you suggest is to trade Brooks, who is not an elite QB, for an elite QB? You can\'t even do that on Madden without giving away the farm with him. Ain\'t gonna happen. Hasselbeck IS Brooks without the 55 fumbles the last 4 years and the ego. How is that NOT an improvement?

02-12-2005, 10:25 PM	#42
LongTimeFan Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Louisiana Posts: 2,403	An AB Option??? What I\'m saying is only trade Brooks for a QB that can out perform Brooks, if you can\'t do that then Keep Brooks

02-12-2005, 10:29 PM	#43
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	An AB Option??? I\'m not sure that Hass doesn\'t have an ego. The reason I might favor getting him and replacing Brooks is efficiency. AB has shown what our offense is capable of - even with someone as inconsistent as he passing. Thus, eliminate some mistakes and incompletions by inaccuracy and our O could be more efficient with Hass. However, the lingering question for me is mobility. If we do not properly address the OT position this offseason, Hass\' ability to be more efficient will be diminished. I think this is all probably going to end up moot because he will likely re-sign with the \'Hawks because of loyalty to Holmgren.

02-13-2005, 03:40 AM	#44
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	An AB Option??? The difference in drops between Hass and AB is 13. As I recall, Seahawks WRs droped 38 balls and Saints WRs droped 25. That isn\'t a big difference, if you ask me. Sure it is a couple of first downs, maybe a TD or two, but in terms of raw numbers, I\'m not impressed.

02-13-2005, 03:51 AM	#45
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	An AB Option??? I saw on ESPN that Seattle LED THE LEAGUE IN DROPPED PASSES... They were discussing the future of Hasslebeck and Alexander... They also said that , of the 2, Alexander would be the one to go..If one were released..or traded..whatever...they expect that Seatlle will either..Tag Hasselbeck..or thier left tackle..I believe they said the LT had been tagged twice in a row..and they really didn\'t expect to see him tagged again..and..I agree...Hasslebeck is a very good QB...it\'s hard to determine just how much of an impact those dropped passes really had..a drop on 3rd down is far more costly then one on 1st... But ..you can bet several of them came on key drives ( They did lead the league)...and might have contributed to his drop in production...
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

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02-13-2005, 08:27 AM	#46
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	An AB Option??? ... Brooks has a stronger arm than Hasselbeck.. ... Brooks is taller than Hasselbeck.... ..that\'s the \"talent\" Brooks has over Hasselbeck... ... guess when you are tall and have a strong arm you eally don\'t need QB skills.. ..had to edit to add something about the drops: The NFL doesn\'t keep an official \"passes dropped\" count.... what constitutes a \"drop\" can be subjective: did it hit the WR in the numbers, did it hit the WR in the hands, but it really was out of reach, ect.... However, according to the stats inc website, which would apply a somewhat even definition of a \"dropped pass\" to all teams, there are teams that had as many drops as Seattle, and one that had even more... KC and Miami are credited with as many drops, and Jacksonville is credited with more than anyone else at 42... ..yet, you didn\'t hear anyone mention how many passes the Jaguars dropped, or Miami, or even KC... it was always how many passes the Seattle Seahawks drop... and there is a reason for it... if you look at Seattle\'s dropped passes, you\'ll see that a lot of those hit the WRs right in the numbers, or in the arms, well within the WRs reach... ... speaking of the credited number of passes dropped, the number my seem low, but it really isn\'t , because of the range of pass play... ... and what more can be said about Seattle, after witnessing how they ended their season... [Edited on 13/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

02-13-2005, 09:58 AM	#47
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	An AB Option??? Excellent post Tobias. I mentioned elsewhere Seattle\'s season enden on ANOTHER dropped pass by one of their receivers, in the endzone, in the playoffs. I also like your AB is taller and stronger point. Classic.

02-13-2005, 01:02 PM	#48
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	An AB Option??? So, basically what you are saying is THERE IS NO STAT FOR DROPPED PASSES AND IT IS SUBJECTIVE? I see. So, when someone says x or y had lots of dropped passes, there is no way to find out if it is true? In fact it is entirely possible that x had more or y had more... Hmmmmm. Interesting.

02-13-2005, 01:48 PM	#49
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	An AB Option??? So, basically what you are saying is THERE IS NO STAT FOR DROPPED PASSES AND IT IS SUBJECTIVE? I see. So, when someone says x or y had lots of dropped passes, there is no way to find out if it is true? In fact it is entirely possible that x had more or y had more... Hmmmmm. Interesting. ..before I go on, I again feel the need to make clear that I am not a stats guy, even tough this wouldn\'t be a \"stat\" but more of a count... now.. ..what I SAID is that the NFL DOESN\"T KEEP AN OFFICIAL COUNT OF DROPPED PASSES.... but that is not to say that no one else does... there are plenty of numbers you hear out there which the NFL does not keep as \"official\" stats... Stats Inc keeps count, ESPN apparently keeps its own count... ESPN is saying the Seahawks led the league in dropped passes, while Stats Inc has Jacksonville as the one... The NFL doesn\'t keep an official \"passes dropped\" count. see? That\'s what I said.... ... and I said that I didn\'t know the criteria used by those who do keep a count for considering a pass a \"dropped\" pass or merely an \'incompletion\", and that it could be subjective; and I also said thet even tough it may be subjective, when applied EVENLY to all teams, then it is possible to get a fair count from all teams... However, according to the stats inc website, which would apply a somewhat even definition of a \"dropped pass\" to all teams, ..see? that\'s what I said... I don\'t know if they count balls that hit the receiver in the chest only... I don\'t know if they count balls that hit the receiver in the chest and/or arms.. I don\'t know if, as long as the ball hits the WR hands, they count it.. ... but again, when applied evenly to all teams, it is still a valid measurement... ..so what I am basically saying is what you just read... [Edited on 13/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

02-13-2005, 02:16 PM	#50
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	An AB Option??? So, basically what you are saying is THERE IS NO STAT FOR DROPPED PASSES AND IT IS SUBJECTIVE? I see. So, when someone says x or y had lots of dropped passes, there is no way to find out if it is true? In fact it is entirely possible that x had more or y had more... Hmmmmm. Interesting.