Len Pasquarelli on Darren Howard

spkb25 · 02-11-2005, 11:43 PM

well if thats the case scotty then its the best idea obviously. if he stays im ok with it. if he go\'s and we get something for him im ok with it. either way it works for us. i just dont want to see us let him go for nothing. so i think that is great if thatsb how it works. hey scotty corect me if im wrong here and i may be. especially since he isnt signed right now. but i was reading somewhere right afetr the season that we could put a restricted free agent tag on him in which we could match an offer or let him go and get compensation through draft picks. im not sure i am at all right that is just what i read or thought i read. i could be wrong. let me know ok

saintswhodi · 02-12-2005, 10:22 AM

The restricted tag is for players we draft and have been here 3-4(depending on contract years I believe) years and are eligible for free agency. I do believe we can tender them a 1 year qualifying offer, and if a team signs them away we get compensation or we can match. Howard is not eligible as he would be an unrestricted free agent. Basically the restriction is not like the franchise tag, but allows us to retain or get something for our recently drafted players.

ScottyRo · 02-12-2005, 11:54 AM

There are two categories of free agents: restricted and unrestricted.

From within these two categories come the \"franchise\" and \"transition\" designations (aka tags).

NFL.com has a page that describes and defines these terms:

http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/qa

JKool · 02-12-2005, 02:13 PM

Maybe this is impossible, but I was thinking something like this.

Say there is a team that doesn\'t want to bid for Howard on the open market. They offer us a some compensation to sign him to a deal they like, then we trade him.

It was my understanding, and I plead total ignorance on this, that a player\'s contract goes with him (though his signing bonus doesn\'t). Thus, the new team would have to renegotiate or they\'d have to pay his current contract.

saintswhodi · 02-12-2005, 03:23 PM

If we sign him, any bonus he is entitled to in that contract we have to pay. We HAVE to tag him cause NO AGENT in this world will let a player sign a contract with no bonus. What if the team was then so say, well hell, we aren\'t paying him a bonus, let\'s just keep him? Uh-uh. The only way we can trade him is if we tag him, then the new team can work a deal with him, which like I said before, will prob be resolved on all sides before the move is made.

JKool · 02-12-2005, 03:53 PM

Then my scenario does make sense? I\'m confused.

We could sign him and pay the bonus. We could then trade him and everything but the bonus to another team. This would be like paying for draft picks - we pay Howard\'s bonus, the other team gives us draft picks as compensation for that and they get Howard without having to deal with the free market.

Now, maybe that would never happen, but it is at least plausible, right?

ScottyRo · 02-12-2005, 04:16 PM

Ok, What you\'re suggesting is we give a team Howard under a long term contract plus pick up the signing bonus and in return you expect a higher amount of compensation than we\'d get for trading him based solely on his value as a player. Is that right?

I suppose it\'s possible. I\'ve never heard of it happening. The way I described above was the way Peerless Price went to Atlanta and, I believe, T Jones came here. But I guess your scenario is a way to \"buy up\" - so to speak - the compensation.

LKelley67 · 02-12-2005, 04:25 PM

http://www.blackandgold.net/site/mod...hread&tid=7878

no_cloning · 02-12-2005, 04:30 PM

There are two problems with your scenario, JKool:
1. Signing bonuses are often in the 20% range of the total contract, so if he signs a 5-year deal for 30 million, the Saints (or rather Benson) would have to pay 6 million just for draft picks - and we mostly agreed that we wouldn\'t even get a 1st round pick for him. JUST for the pick.
2. The signing bonus of a traded player counts against the salary cap.

If it happens it will happen in the order ScottyRo laid out, Howard will not receive a signing bonus from the Saints for leaving.
Regarding circumventing the free market: Howard\'s agent will test the free market, no doubt about it. It is unlikely that a team would try to make a trade for him before knowing he will agree to a deal. It\'s not nice to be embarassed *cough* Ravens/Owens *cough* and you might just wind up with lost draft picks.

[Edited on 12/2/2005 by no_cloning]

JKool · 02-12-2005, 05:59 PM

Scotty and cloning, thanks for the thoughts. I\'ll revise my view.

LK, I feel like I may have said something that keeps you from saying more in your posts. If I did, I truly apologize. First, welcome to the board, in case I didn\'t welcome you sooner. Second, I think you\'ve brought some stuff here that is of value, I really wish you\'d just say what you were thinking (on top of posting all the great information).

02-11-2005, 11:43 PM	#11
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Len Pasquarelli on Darren Howard well if thats the case scotty then its the best idea obviously. if he stays im ok with it. if he go\'s and we get something for him im ok with it. either way it works for us. i just dont want to see us let him go for nothing. so i think that is great if thatsb how it works. hey scotty corect me if im wrong here and i may be. especially since he isnt signed right now. but i was reading somewhere right afetr the season that we could put a restricted free agent tag on him in which we could match an offer or let him go and get compensation through draft picks. im not sure i am at all right that is just what i read or thought i read. i could be wrong. let me know ok
	Your team stinks

02-12-2005, 10:22 AM	#12
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Len Pasquarelli on Darren Howard The restricted tag is for players we draft and have been here 3-4(depending on contract years I believe) years and are eligible for free agency. I do believe we can tender them a 1 year qualifying offer, and if a team signs them away we get compensation or we can match. Howard is not eligible as he would be an unrestricted free agent. Basically the restriction is not like the franchise tag, but allows us to retain or get something for our recently drafted players.

02-12-2005, 11:54 AM	#13
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Len Pasquarelli on Darren Howard There are two categories of free agents: restricted and unrestricted. From within these two categories come the \"franchise\" and \"transition\" designations (aka tags). NFL.com has a page that describes and defines these terms: http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/qa

02-12-2005, 02:13 PM	#14
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Len Pasquarelli on Darren Howard Maybe this is impossible, but I was thinking something like this. Say there is a team that doesn\'t want to bid for Howard on the open market. They offer us a some compensation to sign him to a deal they like, then we trade him. It was my understanding, and I plead total ignorance on this, that a player\'s contract goes with him (though his signing bonus doesn\'t). Thus, the new team would have to renegotiate or they\'d have to pay his current contract.

02-12-2005, 03:23 PM	#15
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Len Pasquarelli on Darren Howard If we sign him, any bonus he is entitled to in that contract we have to pay. We HAVE to tag him cause NO AGENT in this world will let a player sign a contract with no bonus. What if the team was then so say, well hell, we aren\'t paying him a bonus, let\'s just keep him? Uh-uh. The only way we can trade him is if we tag him, then the new team can work a deal with him, which like I said before, will prob be resolved on all sides before the move is made.

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02-12-2005, 03:53 PM	#16
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Len Pasquarelli on Darren Howard Then my scenario does make sense? I\'m confused. We could sign him and pay the bonus. We could then trade him and everything but the bonus to another team. This would be like paying for draft picks - we pay Howard\'s bonus, the other team gives us draft picks as compensation for that and they get Howard without having to deal with the free market. Now, maybe that would never happen, but it is at least plausible, right?

02-12-2005, 04:16 PM	#17
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Len Pasquarelli on Darren Howard Ok, What you\'re suggesting is we give a team Howard under a long term contract plus pick up the signing bonus and in return you expect a higher amount of compensation than we\'d get for trading him based solely on his value as a player. Is that right? I suppose it\'s possible. I\'ve never heard of it happening. The way I described above was the way Peerless Price went to Atlanta and, I believe, T Jones came here. But I guess your scenario is a way to \"buy up\" - so to speak - the compensation.

02-12-2005, 04:25 PM	#18
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Len Pasquarelli on Darren Howard http://www.blackandgold.net/site/mod...hread&tid=7878

02-12-2005, 04:30 PM	#19
no_cloning 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 249	Len Pasquarelli on Darren Howard There are two problems with your scenario, JKool: 1. Signing bonuses are often in the 20% range of the total contract, so if he signs a 5-year deal for 30 million, the Saints (or rather Benson) would have to pay 6 million just for draft picks - and we mostly agreed that we wouldn\'t even get a 1st round pick for him. JUST for the pick. 2. The signing bonus of a traded player counts against the salary cap. If it happens it will happen in the order ScottyRo laid out, Howard will not receive a signing bonus from the Saints for leaving. Regarding circumventing the free market: Howard\'s agent will test the free market, no doubt about it. It is unlikely that a team would try to make a trade for him before knowing he will agree to a deal. It\'s not nice to be embarassed cough Ravens/Owens cough and you might just wind up with lost draft picks. [Edited on 12/2/2005 by no_cloning]
no_cloning 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 249

02-12-2005, 05:59 PM	#20
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Len Pasquarelli on Darren Howard Scotty and cloning, thanks for the thoughts. I\'ll revise my view. LK, I feel like I may have said something that keeps you from saying more in your posts. If I did, I truly apologize. First, welcome to the board, in case I didn\'t welcome you sooner. Second, I think you\'ve brought some stuff here that is of value, I really wish you\'d just say what you were thinking (on top of posting all the great information).