Simple better than complex!!

JKool · 02-17-2005, 02:31 PM

The excessive plays and the mind-boggling number of options of those plays, along with the wordy terminology, Haslett said, contributed to the mental errors and pre-snap penalties that have plagued the offense.

I see, all pre-snap penalties like jumping offside, misalignments, illegal motions, etc. are the QB\'s fault. Man, why didn\'t I see that.

Regardless of the intelligence of our players, it is the coaches\' job to design an attack that is fit to the players. If your players are dumb, you need to do things to disguise offensive and defensive plans that do not rely on players making adjustments on their own. This can be done. In fact, it can be done without making the plays more obvious by eliminating needless verbage, extra check downs, etc, and merely better (more accurate) playcalling.

This is a sign of a problem with our COACHING not our players.

Simplification in itself is not bad, it is the kind of simplification that matters.

baronm · 02-17-2005, 02:39 PM

problem with just using athletism is when you get to this level..everyone is more or less on par..it\'s the intelligence and work ethic that seperate.

true, you must fit your scheme to your players-or your players to your scheme.

If the players cannott grasp the offense-then you dumb dwn the offense till you can find the players that can play in the offense..problem is: if they can\'t grasp the offense-or don\'t take the time to study the offense (which is it?) then how are they supposed to be able to pick up the oppenents defenseive schemes in a matter of seconds (which I think is more the problem.)

JKool · 02-17-2005, 03:38 PM

problem with just using athletism is when you get to this level..everyone is more or less on par..it\'s the intelligence and work ethic that seperate.

and play calling and game planning.

FireVenturi · 02-17-2005, 06:12 PM

see to me this says-our quarterback is not smart enough to grasp the playbook so we have to dumb it down..

I hate hearing the \"simplify\" excuse...

So since we simplified the D also, is our D also dumb?

saintswhodi · 02-17-2005, 06:18 PM

Yes Venturi it does. And I don\'t mean dumb as in not talented. I mean dumb as in they need defined roles on this team on defense. We don\'t have the level of intelligence say that the Pats have that we can allow our players to read plays and make the play on their own. We don\'t have that one dominating Ray Lewis or Urlacher or Vrabel or Bruschi that can carry a D based on their smarts. The scheme needs to be simplified for the talent we have, and to be able to use that talent to fruition. Again, they are good talent wise, but intelligence wise I don\'t think they are up there.

[Edited on 18/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

baronm · 02-17-2005, 06:29 PM

isn\'t game planning part of work ethic?

as for the d-I don\'t know some of those guys seem to be playing over their heads..and some of them seem to be mailing it in.

I think that grant and smith are cornerstones to that line..and our cornerbacks have gotten better..but our linebackers-they just plain suck as a unit..now watson and brockwoldt seem to be pretty decent-though brockwoldt to me is a backup type...but the rest of those guys are pretty awful.

JKool · 02-17-2005, 07:23 PM

An interesting question Gator. I hope that time will tell, rather than history.

FireVenturi · 02-17-2005, 08:36 PM

Yes Venturi it does. And I don\'t mean dumb as in not talented. I mean dumb as in they need defined roles on this team on defense. We don\'t have the level of intelligence say that the Pats have that we can allow our players to read plays and make the play on their own. We don\'t have that one dominating Ray Lewis or Urlacher or Vrabel or Bruschi that can carry a D based on their smarts. The scheme needs to be simplified for the talent we have, and to be able to use that talent to fruition. Again, they are good talent wise, but intelligence wise I don\'t think they are up there.

[Edited on 18/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

Thanks for provin\' my point

saintswhodi · 02-17-2005, 09:02 PM

Thanks for provin\' my point

You had a point?

J/K. But I don\'t know what your point could have been except maybe there are dumb players on this team besides AB, then yes I agree with that. He is one though.

ScottyRo · 02-17-2005, 09:10 PM

I just hope this \"oversimplication\" pitch isn\'t 2005\'s excuse like 2002\'s \"defensive overhaul\" and 2003\'s \"let\'em gell\" threoy.

Yeah, it\'s another yearly pitch. Haslet has got to be right one of these years, doesn\'t he?

02-17-2005, 02:31 PM	#11
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Simple better than complex!! The excessive plays and the mind-boggling number of options of those plays, along with the wordy terminology, Haslett said, contributed to the mental errors and pre-snap penalties that have plagued the offense. I see, all pre-snap penalties like jumping offside, misalignments, illegal motions, etc. are the QB\'s fault. Man, why didn\'t I see that. Regardless of the intelligence of our players, it is the coaches\' job to design an attack that is fit to the players. If your players are dumb, you need to do things to disguise offensive and defensive plans that do not rely on players making adjustments on their own. This can be done. In fact, it can be done without making the plays more obvious by eliminating needless verbage, extra check downs, etc, and merely better (more accurate) playcalling. This is a sign of a problem with our COACHING not our players. Simplification in itself is not bad, it is the kind of simplification that matters.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

02-17-2005, 02:39 PM	#12
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Simple better than complex!! problem with just using athletism is when you get to this level..everyone is more or less on par..it\'s the intelligence and work ethic that seperate. true, you must fit your scheme to your players-or your players to your scheme. If the players cannott grasp the offense-then you dumb dwn the offense till you can find the players that can play in the offense..problem is: if they can\'t grasp the offense-or don\'t take the time to study the offense (which is it?) then how are they supposed to be able to pick up the oppenents defenseive schemes in a matter of seconds (which I think is more the problem.)
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

02-17-2005, 03:38 PM	#13
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Simple better than complex!! problem with just using athletism is when you get to this level..everyone is more or less on par..it\'s the intelligence and work ethic that seperate. and play calling and game planning.

02-17-2005, 06:12 PM	#14
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	Simple better than complex!! see to me this says-our quarterback is not smart enough to grasp the playbook so we have to dumb it down.. I hate hearing the \"simplify\" excuse... So since we simplified the D also, is our D also dumb?

02-17-2005, 06:18 PM	#15
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Simple better than complex!! Yes Venturi it does. And I don\'t mean dumb as in not talented. I mean dumb as in they need defined roles on this team on defense. We don\'t have the level of intelligence say that the Pats have that we can allow our players to read plays and make the play on their own. We don\'t have that one dominating Ray Lewis or Urlacher or Vrabel or Bruschi that can carry a D based on their smarts. The scheme needs to be simplified for the talent we have, and to be able to use that talent to fruition. Again, they are good talent wise, but intelligence wise I don\'t think they are up there. [Edited on 18/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

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02-17-2005, 06:29 PM	#16
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Simple better than complex!! isn\'t game planning part of work ethic? as for the d-I don\'t know some of those guys seem to be playing over their heads..and some of them seem to be mailing it in. I think that grant and smith are cornerstones to that line..and our cornerbacks have gotten better..but our linebackers-they just plain suck as a unit..now watson and brockwoldt seem to be pretty decent-though brockwoldt to me is a backup type...but the rest of those guys are pretty awful.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

02-17-2005, 07:23 PM	#17
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Simple better than complex!! An interesting question Gator. I hope that time will tell, rather than history.

02-17-2005, 08:36 PM	#18
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	Simple better than complex!! Yes Venturi it does. And I don\'t mean dumb as in not talented. I mean dumb as in they need defined roles on this team on defense. We don\'t have the level of intelligence say that the Pats have that we can allow our players to read plays and make the play on their own. We don\'t have that one dominating Ray Lewis or Urlacher or Vrabel or Bruschi that can carry a D based on their smarts. The scheme needs to be simplified for the talent we have, and to be able to use that talent to fruition. Again, they are good talent wise, but intelligence wise I don\'t think they are up there. [Edited on 18/2/2005 by saintswhodi] Thanks for provin\' my point

02-17-2005, 09:02 PM	#19
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Simple better than complex!! Thanks for provin\' my point You had a point? J/K. But I don\'t know what your point could have been except maybe there are dumb players on this team besides AB, then yes I agree with that. He is one though.

02-17-2005, 09:10 PM	#20
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Simple better than complex!! I just hope this \"oversimplication\" pitch isn\'t 2005\'s excuse like 2002\'s \"defensive overhaul\" and 2003\'s \"let\'em gell\" threoy. Yeah, it\'s another yearly pitch. Haslet has got to be right one of these years, doesn\'t he?