Drew Brees, Bengals?!?

leilung · 12-16-2015, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by NOLA54

STOP IT!, STOP IT!, STOP IT!.

Enough with the trade talks about Brees. He just passed Dan Marino for TD passes. Why be in a hurry to push him 'out of the door?

There are 30 million reasons coming in 2016. Why are some of us so intent on holding on before moving on is beyond comprehension. Loyalty? Got it. He's a first ballot HOF QB playing for our team? Love it.

Bottom line: Value vs. Cost keeping him is hurting the franchise's ability to rebuild, retool, and be competitive in the near future. I, for one, have no desire to hang on for another 10 years in order to be a powerhouse again.

Face the fact that there comes a time when you retire a racehorse, no matter how many races he's won for you. This inability to move forward and stop being hung up on nostalgic days behind us is killing the TEAM. Let. It. Go.

lumm0x · 12-16-2015, 10:55 AM

I am 99.9% confident Brees will be back here next year. If Payton does stay Drew stays. If Payton leaves I don't think any first year coach would be willing to regress to what would come if we have to start Grayson or someone else. He'd be 3 years away from a positive record in all likelihood and that is the kiss of death in this league for most coaches.

The number of teams able to take on Drew's salary are limited. Because of that salary level the returns would be limited unless he could do a new deal that makes it more attractive to them. Remember the Jets only gave up a 3rd rounder to get Favre. Is that the kind of return we are looking for? He is still a top 10 QB for sure and would give our organization a chance to compete for a few more years while we groom his replacement for the future. The best thing for a guy like Grayson, or anyone else that may be our plan, is to sit and learn and earn reps in practices and camps. I am sure Drew is a great role model in terms of knowledge and effort at all times and can show a young player what it takes to succeed in this league. His accolades are not all based off god given talent and physical attributes like some guys who have his kind of success.

The best thing for the short term and long term success of this team is to keep him.

Thirty3 · 12-16-2015, 11:39 AM

Drew wouldn't go there even if he could.

SaintsBro · 12-16-2015, 12:09 PM

If they get rid of Drew the waiting list for season tickets is going to pretty much evaporate -- that's a fact you can't ignore. Win lose or draw, Drew puts people in the seats.

Nobody in this thread -- or any of the other Drew threads -- has made a good argument for the front office letting go of that.

There's simply no profit in getting rid of Drew right now, at the ownership level. You can say what you want, but Drew has never run out the tunnel into a less than sold out Dome (tickets sold..maybe not everybody is in the seats, but season tickets sold by ownership)

* * * Now to answer the (strangely worded) hypothetical:
As far as the Bengals go, BIG PICTURE, they are kind of in the same exact boat as the Saints, more or less. For years they have been thinking "Andy Dalton is THE GUY" and he kinda sorta was the guy, he looked like he might be the guy, but he hasn't really delivered the big holy grail for them -- deep playoff wins and a Super Bowl. Same could easily be said about Brees since 2012 or so -- Brees has great stats, but the Saints have not even sniffed an NFC Championship game since 2012... So the question is, when do you move on from what you have, in pursuit of that shiny bunch of grapes shimmering in the water. Do you drop the grapes you have, to reach for better? Do you "go with what you know," or the unknown that you don't? It's not an impulse decision and it's not easy.

I wouldn't take a Brees/Dalton trade, straight up, QB for QB -- but I bet a number of frustrated Saints fans and impatient "win now" Bengals fans on their message boards, would both want to pull the trigger on that.

burningmetal · 12-16-2015, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

That's the conversation I'm looking to read...

So Grayson isn't our guy and we have no candidate to replace Brees...

Thus, we're faced with two options with Brees by that logic...

Pay Brees his due contracted number and take another year of salary cap hell, or...

Extend Brees, if he and his agent are so willing, with guaranteed money, but at a reduced cap number...

You're bringing up an entirely different subject there.

There is no doubt that Drew's contract is a problem right now, and IF there were a plan in place to be able to move Drew (only at the right price), then you do what's best for the organization. Not because Drew is bad or that anybody wants to see him go, from an emotional standpoint, because it would obviously be very hard to see him leave. But he's not going to play forever, especially if you can't protect him, and you can't do that when you've got a million holes to fill and your QB is killing your cap number.

If Drew were younger, it wouldn't be so bad. But at his age, you risk bleeding out the organization in the hopes of one last run... So I have never been opposed to the theory of trading him. But the probability of any reasonable scenario unfolding, where it would make sense, is not very high.

Your thread was about trading him to the Bengals. Period. That was clear. If you wanted to talk about just any trade involving Drew, then you need to say that. The idea of trading him to the Bengals simply makes zero sense for anyone, not just because the trade deadline has passed. It's not practical. You don't rent a QB like Drew, with his contract PLUS whatever personnel/draft picks you'd be giving up. They already have a QB. He's not great, but he's pretty good compared to the average QB, and they gave him a ton of money. So he's still their future. That would make Drew an incredibly expensive rent. It's not worth it for less than half a season.

And if you're the Saints, you don't just give Drew away, obviously. So it would not happen even if it could, if these teams have even a shred of common sense.

Barry from MS · 12-16-2015, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

I wouldn't take a Brees/Dalton trade, straight up, QB for QB -- but I bet a number of frustrated Saints fans and impatient "win now" Bengals fans on their message boards, would both want to pull the trigger on that.

Brees-for-Dalton plus a 2016 1st and a 2nd. Nothing less. Gives us a mid-tier starting QB in Payton's system for a few years with Grayson still learning the system.

That still gives us a two 1st Round & two 2nd Round picks to address the O-line and/or Defensive Front 7 going forward.

Bengals want to win it all in 2016, they'd better pay for it with their future so we can build our future post-Brees.

burningmetal · 12-16-2015, 12:24 PM

As far as extending him... I'm not particularly thrilled about that notion. It goes back to, once again, having a plan in place. If you draft a guy (or if Grayson actually comes around) who you believe can be a franchise QB, then you let Drew play out his contract, and then let him walk. But I don't have confidence that they will do that anytime soon, so that leaves us with really no choice but to extend him and bring the cap number down.

The Dude · 12-16-2015, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by leilung

There are 30 million reasons coming in 2016. Why are some of us so intent on holding on before moving on is beyond comprehension. Loyalty? Got it. He's a first ballot HOF QB playing for our team? Love it.

Bottom line: Value vs. Cost keeping him is hurting the franchise's ability to rebuild, retool, and be competitive in the near future. I, for one, have no desire to hang on for another 10 years in order to be a powerhouse again.

Face the fact that there comes a time when you retire a racehorse, no matter how many races he's won for you. This inability to move forward and stop being hung up on nostalgic days behind us is killing the TEAM. Let. It. Go.

Why people think its a now are never thing with retooling is beyond me.Its a knee jerk reaction that wont put us any closer to the playoffs for a few years. We can just as easily retool and revamp in 2 years. Brees gives us our best chance in the next couple of years. We rebuild and retool now and get another QB it could be 4-5 years before we get back on track. As far as the money goes, it has been the same story every year, we are always against the cap yet Loomis somehow finds the money to sign big expensive free agents. Its not his fault that money was spent foolishly. He will get us enough money again this offseason just like always and we will have a chance to sign a couple of higher frofile players. He will find the money. it is coaching and scoutings job to find out what to do with that money. And this organization has shown time and time again that they have no problem lettiing players go when their time is up.

Like lummox said Brees being here is a huge draw for perspective coaches and free agents. A team with a HOF Qb with enough left in him to develop a younger guy over a couple years is an attractive destination. Especially with some of the youth we have.

Budsdrinker · 12-16-2015, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Barry from MS

Brees-for-Dalton plus a 2016 1st and a 2nd. Nothing less. Gives us a mid-tier starting QB in Payton's system for a few years with Grayson still learning the system.

That still gives us a two 1st Round & two 2nd Round picks to address the O-line and/or Defensive Front 7 going forward.

Bengals want to win it all in 2016, they'd better pay for it with their future so we can build our future post-Brees.

So Brees for Dalton, let's see first we would have $10,000,000 dead cap from Brees and then take on $13,100,000 for Dalton so there would be a difference of only $6.9 million if we just let Brees play out his contract and Oh yeah have Dalton instead of Brees. No Thank You. 3 year extension.

RaginCajun83 · 12-16-2015, 01:48 PM

Brees for Dalton is laughable on so many levels, not just the cap hell but the drop off in talent, please make this garbage stop

12-16-2015, 10:05 AM	#31
leilung Booty Bandit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Wastelands that are NJ Posts: 1,369	Re: Drew Brees, Bengals?!? Originally Posted by NOLA54 STOP IT!, STOP IT!, STOP IT!. Enough with the trade talks about Brees. He just passed Dan Marino for TD passes. Why be in a hurry to push him 'out of the door? There are 30 million reasons coming in 2016. Why are some of us so intent on holding on before moving on is beyond comprehension. Loyalty? Got it. He's a first ballot HOF QB playing for our team? Love it. Bottom line: Value vs. Cost keeping him is hurting the franchise's ability to rebuild, retool, and be competitive in the near future. I, for one, have no desire to hang on for another 10 years in order to be a powerhouse again. Face the fact that there comes a time when you retire a racehorse, no matter how many races he's won for you. This inability to move forward and stop being hung up on nostalgic days behind us is killing the TEAM. Let. It. Go.
	A wise man once said, "Poo-poo smells just as bad as s#!%. One just SOUNDS cuter!"

12-16-2015, 10:55 AM	#32
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Re: Drew Brees, Bengals?!? I am 99.9% confident Brees will be back here next year. If Payton does stay Drew stays. If Payton leaves I don't think any first year coach would be willing to regress to what would come if we have to start Grayson or someone else. He'd be 3 years away from a positive record in all likelihood and that is the kiss of death in this league for most coaches. The number of teams able to take on Drew's salary are limited. Because of that salary level the returns would be limited unless he could do a new deal that makes it more attractive to them. Remember the Jets only gave up a 3rd rounder to get Favre. Is that the kind of return we are looking for? He is still a top 10 QB for sure and would give our organization a chance to compete for a few more years while we groom his replacement for the future. The best thing for a guy like Grayson, or anyone else that may be our plan, is to sit and learn and earn reps in practices and camps. I am sure Drew is a great role model in terms of knowledge and effort at all times and can show a young player what it takes to succeed in this league. His accolades are not all based off god given talent and physical attributes like some guys who have his kind of success. The best thing for the short term and long term success of this team is to keep him. The Dude likes this.

12-16-2015, 11:39 AM	#33
Thirty3 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1,255	Re: Drew Brees, Bengals?!? Drew wouldn't go there even if he could.
Thirty3 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1,255

12-16-2015, 12:09 PM	#34
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Drew Brees, Bengals?!? If they get rid of Drew the waiting list for season tickets is going to pretty much evaporate -- that's a fact you can't ignore. Win lose or draw, Drew puts people in the seats. Nobody in this thread -- or any of the other Drew threads -- has made a good argument for the front office letting go of that. There's simply no profit in getting rid of Drew right now, at the ownership level. You can say what you want, but Drew has never run out the tunnel into a less than sold out Dome (tickets sold..maybe not everybody is in the seats, but season tickets sold by ownership) * * * Now to answer the (strangely worded) hypothetical: As far as the Bengals go, BIG PICTURE, they are kind of in the same exact boat as the Saints, more or less. For years they have been thinking "Andy Dalton is THE GUY" and he kinda sorta was the guy, he looked like he might be the guy, but he hasn't really delivered the big holy grail for them -- deep playoff wins and a Super Bowl. Same could easily be said about Brees since 2012 or so -- Brees has great stats, but the Saints have not even sniffed an NFC Championship game since 2012... So the question is, when do you move on from what you have, in pursuit of that shiny bunch of grapes shimmering in the water. Do you drop the grapes you have, to reach for better? Do you "go with what you know," or the unknown that you don't? It's not an impulse decision and it's not easy. I wouldn't take a Brees/Dalton trade, straight up, QB for QB -- but I bet a number of frustrated Saints fans and impatient "win now" Bengals fans on their message boards, would both want to pull the trigger on that. jnormand likes this.

12-16-2015, 12:13 PM	#35
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Drew Brees, Bengals?!? Originally Posted by jeanpierre That's the conversation I'm looking to read... So Grayson isn't our guy and we have no candidate to replace Brees... Thus, we're faced with two options with Brees by that logic... Pay Brees his due contracted number and take another year of salary cap hell, or... Extend Brees, if he and his agent are so willing, with guaranteed money, but at a reduced cap number... You're bringing up an entirely different subject there. There is no doubt that Drew's contract is a problem right now, and IF there were a plan in place to be able to move Drew (only at the right price), then you do what's best for the organization. Not because Drew is bad or that anybody wants to see him go, from an emotional standpoint, because it would obviously be very hard to see him leave. But he's not going to play forever, especially if you can't protect him, and you can't do that when you've got a million holes to fill and your QB is killing your cap number. If Drew were younger, it wouldn't be so bad. But at his age, you risk bleeding out the organization in the hopes of one last run... So I have never been opposed to the theory of trading him. But the probability of any reasonable scenario unfolding, where it would make sense, is not very high. Your thread was about trading him to the Bengals. Period. That was clear. If you wanted to talk about just any trade involving Drew, then you need to say that. The idea of trading him to the Bengals simply makes zero sense for anyone, not just because the trade deadline has passed. It's not practical. You don't rent a QB like Drew, with his contract PLUS whatever personnel/draft picks you'd be giving up. They already have a QB. He's not great, but he's pretty good compared to the average QB, and they gave him a ton of money. So he's still their future. That would make Drew an incredibly expensive rent. It's not worth it for less than half a season. And if you're the Saints, you don't just give Drew away, obviously. So it would not happen even if it could, if these teams have even a shred of common sense.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

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12-16-2015, 12:24 PM	#36
Barry from MS Site Donor 2014 Join Date: May 2007 Location: TEMPO VC Okefenokee Swamp Posts: 1,985 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Drew Brees, Bengals?!? Originally Posted by SaintsBro I wouldn't take a Brees/Dalton trade, straight up, QB for QB -- but I bet a number of frustrated Saints fans and impatient "win now" Bengals fans on their message boards, would both want to pull the trigger on that. Brees-for-Dalton plus a 2016 1st and a 2nd. Nothing less. Gives us a mid-tier starting QB in Payton's system for a few years with Grayson still learning the system. That still gives us a two 1st Round & two 2nd Round picks to address the O-line and/or Defensive Front 7 going forward. Bengals want to win it all in 2016, they'd better pay for it with their future so we can build our future post-Brees.

12-16-2015, 12:24 PM	#37
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Drew Brees, Bengals?!? As far as extending him... I'm not particularly thrilled about that notion. It goes back to, once again, having a plan in place. If you draft a guy (or if Grayson actually comes around) who you believe can be a franchise QB, then you let Drew play out his contract, and then let him walk. But I don't have confidence that they will do that anytime soon, so that leaves us with really no choice but to extend him and bring the cap number down.

12-16-2015, 12:48 PM	#38
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	Re: Drew Brees, Bengals?!? Originally Posted by leilung There are 30 million reasons coming in 2016. Why are some of us so intent on holding on before moving on is beyond comprehension. Loyalty? Got it. He's a first ballot HOF QB playing for our team? Love it. Bottom line: Value vs. Cost keeping him is hurting the franchise's ability to rebuild, retool, and be competitive in the near future. I, for one, have no desire to hang on for another 10 years in order to be a powerhouse again. Face the fact that there comes a time when you retire a racehorse, no matter how many races he's won for you. This inability to move forward and stop being hung up on nostalgic days behind us is killing the TEAM. Let. It. Go. Why people think its a now are never thing with retooling is beyond me.Its a knee jerk reaction that wont put us any closer to the playoffs for a few years. We can just as easily retool and revamp in 2 years. Brees gives us our best chance in the next couple of years. We rebuild and retool now and get another QB it could be 4-5 years before we get back on track. As far as the money goes, it has been the same story every year, we are always against the cap yet Loomis somehow finds the money to sign big expensive free agents. Its not his fault that money was spent foolishly. He will get us enough money again this offseason just like always and we will have a chance to sign a couple of higher frofile players. He will find the money. it is coaching and scoutings job to find out what to do with that money. And this organization has shown time and time again that they have no problem lettiing players go when their time is up. Like lummox said Brees being here is a huge draw for perspective coaches and free agents. A team with a HOF Qb with enough left in him to develop a younger guy over a couple years is an attractive destination. Especially with some of the youth we have.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048

12-16-2015, 12:58 PM	#39
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Drew Brees, Bengals?!? Originally Posted by Barry from MS Brees-for-Dalton plus a 2016 1st and a 2nd. Nothing less. Gives us a mid-tier starting QB in Payton's system for a few years with Grayson still learning the system. That still gives us a two 1st Round & two 2nd Round picks to address the O-line and/or Defensive Front 7 going forward. Bengals want to win it all in 2016, they'd better pay for it with their future so we can build our future post-Brees. So Brees for Dalton, let's see first we would have $10,000,000 dead cap from Brees and then take on $13,100,000 for Dalton so there would be a difference of only $6.9 million if we just let Brees play out his contract and Oh yeah have Dalton instead of Brees. No Thank You. 3 year extension.

12-16-2015, 01:48 PM	#40
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: Drew Brees, Bengals?!? Brees for Dalton is laughable on so many levels, not just the cap hell but the drop off in talent, please make this garbage stop SaintsBro likes this.

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