Howard for Surtain?

TayTay · 02-23-2005, 06:33 PM

What would yall think about trading Darren Howard for Patrick Surtain?
If yall recall, the dolphins traded their previous D-end (Adewale Ogunley) to the Bears in the regular season.
Everyone kows how much Booker helped.
They may find another stud as they always seem to do, but I don't know who else is available.
Right now, their top end other than Taylor is David Bowen.
Yes, the same Bowen that you have never heard of.
It would be perfect for both teams. They would get the pass rushing D-end they need and we get the shutdown corner we have longed for.
I of course know this would never happen....

but its always fun to hope

FireVenturi · 02-24-2005, 04:24 PM

The point of trading howard would be to move up in the draft and free up more cap room. Surtain would bring a high salary and would not clear up much, if any, cap room.

saintswhodi · 02-24-2005, 04:29 PM

Right on Venturi. I was gonna say that.

4saintspirit · 02-25-2005, 07:15 AM

The point of trading howard would be to move up in the draft and free up more cap room. Surtain would bring a high salary and would not clear up much, if any, cap room.

I respectfully disagree -- there are numerous reasons to trade Howard - its not just the cap money -- its that we are loaded at that position and the cap money -- and why trade up in the draft to get a rookie who may be a bust when you can get a proven stud in his prime at a position we need -- I\'d make the trade in a heartbeat

saintswhodi · 02-25-2005, 09:13 AM

I respectfully disagree -- there are numerous reasons to trade Howard - its not just the cap money -- its that we are loaded at that position and the cap money -- and why trade up in the draft to get a rookie who may be a bust when you can get a proven stud in his prime at a position we need -- I\'d make the trade in a heartbeat

I respectfully disagree back atcha.

Howard\'s franchised figure is 7.8 mil. It puts us 2 mil OVER the cap. The move to trade him is 100% cap related, simply put, we can not afford him with the glut we have at that position. Were he a star DT or MLB, yes maybe. It is 100% a cap move, and not wanting to let him leave for nothing, which is what would have happened had he not been tagged.

Euphoria · 02-25-2005, 09:35 AM

I think we need Howard. I don\'t see it as much of a back up of talent at that position but how we use it to our advantage. Howard more of a run stopper and Will Smith more of a pass rusher. Several options our D has is to rotate Smith in and out, keeping players fresh for one and also uses out players and getting them in places to make plays. W. Smith at LB and at DE.

saintswhodi · 02-25-2005, 09:47 AM

That\'s why we have Whitehead and Bryant, for rotational purposes. You don\'t need to rotate stars every play, you need to keep your stars fresh so they can play more. Whitehead more than serves that purpose. I love his play, and always have. And he doesn\'t cost 7.8 mil to give us a better rotation.

4saintspirit · 02-25-2005, 10:23 AM

I respectfully disagree back atcha. Howard\'s franchised figure is 7.8 mil. It puts us 2 mil OVER the cap. The move to trade him is 100% cap related, simply put, we can not afford him with the glut we have at that position. Were he a star DT or MLB, yes maybe. It is 100% a cap move, and not wanting to let him leave for nothing, which is what would have happened had he not been tagged.

Actually if you read my post I said that its that we are loaded with talent at that position and the cap money. As you said if it were a DT maybe we should keep him -- pretty much my reasoning for trading for Surtain -- so I am curious -- what are you disagreeing with me about

saintswhodi · 02-25-2005, 10:42 AM

On the cap thing, I read it wrong since you sais you disagreed with Venturi\'s assessment, I thought you were disagreeing with it being about the cap. you didn\'t actually disagree with him, you said there was more to it and added one more thing. Numerous did not imply one more, AND the cap IS the main reason we have to trade him.

On Surtain, we aren\'t in desperate need for a corner, that\'s why it\'s different. We are in desperate need for a MLB or a DT. If we were franchising a stud DT or MLB, that makes a difference. If it was a corner, we would have to trade him too cause that is not a position that is killing our team. We are not in the position of say a San Diego where they made the playoffs, and can franchise Brees and pay Rivers cause they drafted decently, and have room under the cap. We are tight against the cap so if we spend out major bucks, it HAS to be be for a need. CB is not a HUGE need, and can be better addressed in the draft. That\'s why no on Surtain. Plus his cap figure is BIGGER than even Howard\'s. It\'s about 10 mil. See now?

4saintspirit · 02-25-2005, 10:49 AM

I see and while I think a stud middle linebacker is the key position we need to fill there is not one on the market worth Howard -- With Surtain we have a young stud cornerback who when teamed with McKenzie would give us one of (if not the) best CB duo in the league.

02-23-2005, 06:33 PM	#1
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118	Howard for Surtain? What would yall think about trading Darren Howard for Patrick Surtain? If yall recall, the dolphins traded their previous D-end (Adewale Ogunley) to the Bears in the regular season. Everyone kows how much Booker helped. They may find another stud as they always seem to do, but I don't know who else is available. Right now, their top end other than Taylor is David Bowen. Yes, the same Bowen that you have never heard of. It would be perfect for both teams. They would get the pass rushing D-end they need and we get the shutdown corner we have longed for. I of course know this would never happen.... but its always fun to hope
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118

02-24-2005, 04:24 PM	#2
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	Howard for Surtain? The point of trading howard would be to move up in the draft and free up more cap room. Surtain would bring a high salary and would not clear up much, if any, cap room.

02-24-2005, 04:29 PM	#3
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Howard for Surtain? Right on Venturi. I was gonna say that.

02-25-2005, 07:15 AM	#4
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	Howard for Surtain? The point of trading howard would be to move up in the draft and free up more cap room. Surtain would bring a high salary and would not clear up much, if any, cap room. I respectfully disagree -- there are numerous reasons to trade Howard - its not just the cap money -- its that we are loaded at that position and the cap money -- and why trade up in the draft to get a rookie who may be a bust when you can get a proven stud in his prime at a position we need -- I\'d make the trade in a heartbeat
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690

02-25-2005, 09:13 AM	#5
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Howard for Surtain? I respectfully disagree -- there are numerous reasons to trade Howard - its not just the cap money -- its that we are loaded at that position and the cap money -- and why trade up in the draft to get a rookie who may be a bust when you can get a proven stud in his prime at a position we need -- I\'d make the trade in a heartbeat I respectfully disagree back atcha. Howard\'s franchised figure is 7.8 mil. It puts us 2 mil OVER the cap. The move to trade him is 100% cap related, simply put, we can not afford him with the glut we have at that position. Were he a star DT or MLB, yes maybe. It is 100% a cap move, and not wanting to let him leave for nothing, which is what would have happened had he not been tagged.

02-25-2005, 09:35 AM	#6
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Howard for Surtain? I think we need Howard. I don\'t see it as much of a back up of talent at that position but how we use it to our advantage. Howard more of a run stopper and Will Smith more of a pass rusher. Several options our D has is to rotate Smith in and out, keeping players fresh for one and also uses out players and getting them in places to make plays. W. Smith at LB and at DE.

02-25-2005, 09:47 AM	#7
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Howard for Surtain? That\'s why we have Whitehead and Bryant, for rotational purposes. You don\'t need to rotate stars every play, you need to keep your stars fresh so they can play more. Whitehead more than serves that purpose. I love his play, and always have. And he doesn\'t cost 7.8 mil to give us a better rotation.

02-25-2005, 10:23 AM	#8
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	Howard for Surtain? I respectfully disagree back atcha. Howard\'s franchised figure is 7.8 mil. It puts us 2 mil OVER the cap. The move to trade him is 100% cap related, simply put, we can not afford him with the glut we have at that position. Were he a star DT or MLB, yes maybe. It is 100% a cap move, and not wanting to let him leave for nothing, which is what would have happened had he not been tagged. Actually if you read my post I said that its that we are loaded with talent at that position and the cap money. As you said if it were a DT maybe we should keep him -- pretty much my reasoning for trading for Surtain -- so I am curious -- what are you disagreeing with me about
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690

02-25-2005, 10:42 AM	#9
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Howard for Surtain? On the cap thing, I read it wrong since you sais you disagreed with Venturi\'s assessment, I thought you were disagreeing with it being about the cap. you didn\'t actually disagree with him, you said there was more to it and added one more thing. Numerous did not imply one more, AND the cap IS the main reason we have to trade him. On Surtain, we aren\'t in desperate need for a corner, that\'s why it\'s different. We are in desperate need for a MLB or a DT. If we were franchising a stud DT or MLB, that makes a difference. If it was a corner, we would have to trade him too cause that is not a position that is killing our team. We are not in the position of say a San Diego where they made the playoffs, and can franchise Brees and pay Rivers cause they drafted decently, and have room under the cap. We are tight against the cap so if we spend out major bucks, it HAS to be be for a need. CB is not a HUGE need, and can be better addressed in the draft. That\'s why no on Surtain. Plus his cap figure is BIGGER than even Howard\'s. It\'s about 10 mil. See now?

02-25-2005, 10:49 AM	#10
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	Howard for Surtain? I see and while I think a stud middle linebacker is the key position we need to fill there is not one on the market worth Howard -- With Surtain we have a young stud cornerback who when teamed with McKenzie would give us one of (if not the) best CB duo in the league.
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690