Change: One OPTIMISTS argument.

dberce1 · 02-25-2005, 04:44 PM

Actually Joe won all 3 fights wih Ali

Nope, he won the first, lost the second and the third. To this day he genuinely hates Ali.

4saintspirit · 02-25-2005, 04:46 PM

I know that -- \'in Jan 1974 Ali killed him -- the fight was almost stopped in the 2nd (maybe 3rd) round by the ref.

The last fight Joe\'s trainer did not let him enter the ring for the 15th round

GumboBC · 02-25-2005, 04:51 PM

For TWO years I\'ve told WhoDat this team had the talent to go to the playoffs. For TWO years WhoDat has told me that that the \"coaching\" wasn\'t going to allow that to happen.

Well, I still think we had the talent to go to the playoffs. But, WhoDat (I hate to say this) was right!!

Haslett and co. have done a lot to keep this team out of the playoffs. Most of which I think has to do with his insistance on keeping Venturi at D-coordinator. And his faillure to address weaknesses in free-agency.

So, making changes might have gotten us further than what we have made it.

But, that does not mean Haslett can\'t or won\'t get the job done.

I\'ve preached for TWO years that coaching only plays a limited role in a teams success.

Good coaching does NOT = good teams.

How\'s Jon Gruden, Bill Parcells, Mike Holmgren, or Mike Shanahan doing? Most of those coaches are probably on the verge on getting fired if they don\'t get over the hump soon!!

Haslett has taken longer than I would have liked. That still does NOT mean it\'s been all his fault. And it doesn\'t mean he\'s above taking much of the blame, either.

I truly believe Haslett is a good coach that has made some mistakes.

I don\'t have a crystal ball and I have no idea how the 2005 season is gonna go. I will not be pessimistic just because of what\'s happend in the past.

I will look at things objectively and if I think we\'re gonna suck, then that\'s what I\'ll say.

As of right NOW, It\'s wait and see baby!!

shadowdrinker · 02-25-2005, 05:00 PM

Coaching only provides a limited influence?

I\'m sorry..but I disagree..

If I were to coach the Pats..you would see a much digressed version of the dynasty you see now...

Like a General on the Field..A Coach ultimatley decides..winning or losing..preperation is the key...and the H...haha

GumboBC · 02-25-2005, 05:02 PM

Coaching only provides a limited influence?

I\'m sorry..but I disagree..

If I were to coach the Pats..you would see a much digressed version of the dynasty you see now...

Like a General on the Field..A Coach ultimatley decides..winning or losing..preperation is the key...and the H...haha

Yeah, I suppose Belichick don\'t have any talent up there in New England.

You\'re telling me the samething folks told me about Holmgren, Shanahan, and Gruden. Not to mention Parcells.

The simple FACT is that when the talent get\'s gone, the coach ain\'t far behind.

[Edited on 25/2/2005 by GumboBC]

Danno · 02-25-2005, 05:30 PM

To this day he genuinely hates Ali.

Yea, you lend a brother who\'s down on his luck some much needed support and a boatload of cash to bail him out of his own mess, and he turns around and ridicules you to the press, you tend to hold a grudge.
What did Ali call him? An ignorant gorilla or something as insulting as that?
Muhammed Ali could be the most over-rated sports hero to ever walk this planet.

shadowdrinker · 02-25-2005, 06:23 PM

Yeah, I suppose Belichick don\'t have any talent up there in New England.

[Edited on 25/2/2005 by GumboBC] [/quote:b3f0d10272]

Yes..he has a very talented team..and they didn\'t just fall from the sky..he hand picked this team..and he got the guys he wanted..and showed them how to do the things he wants them to do...and his system works...he gets the guys he needs..and makes it happen...

Coachng is key to success...not only HC..but all the Assistants..and trainers...If you surround yourself with winners..you win...that was Bill\'s job..and he did very well...

GumboBC · 02-25-2005, 06:47 PM

Yes..he has a very talented team..and they didn\'t just fall from the sky..he hand picked this team..and he got the guys he wanted..and showed them how to do the things he wants them to do...and his system works...he gets the guys he needs..and makes it happen...

Coachng is key to success...not only HC..but all the Assistants..and trainers...If you surround yourself with winners..you win...that was Bill\'s job..and he did very well...

While coaching is very important, I don\'t think it is the \"key\".

The \"key\" is for a good coach to get good players to coach. But, that isn\'t exactly \"coaching\" is it?

Coaching ain\'t gonna get you but so far if you don\'t have the right players. As Bill Parcells, Jon Gruden, Mike Shanahan, and Mike Holmgren would probably tell you.

And \"coaches\" have a hard time trying to get those good players. As Bill Parcells, Jon Gruden, Mike Shanahan, and Mike Holmgren would probably tell you.

What\'s Holmgren without Favre, Reggie White, and co?

What\'s Shanahan without John Elway and Terrell Davis?

What was Jimmy Johnson without Troy Aikman, Emmit Smith, and Michael Irvin.

IF a coach can get the right talent, then his coaching talents will have a chance to succeed. If not, they ain\'t so hot.

GMs play an instrumental part in building football teams. And it\'s the coach who gets most of the glory.

I\'m not saying coaching isn\'t very important. Cause it is. But it takes much more than a good coach to get it done.

shadowdrinker · 02-25-2005, 08:42 PM

I can, for the most part, agree with that...

02-25-2005, 04:44 PM	#11
dberce1 Chuck Liddells Right Hand Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Prairieville, Louisiana Posts: 1,227	Change: One OPTIMISTS argument. Actually Joe won all 3 fights wih Ali Nope, he won the first, lost the second and the third. To this day he genuinely hates Ali.

02-25-2005, 04:46 PM	#12
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	Change: One OPTIMISTS argument. I know that -- \'in Jan 1974 Ali killed him -- the fight was almost stopped in the 2nd (maybe 3rd) round by the ref. The last fight Joe\'s trainer did not let him enter the ring for the 15th round
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690

02-25-2005, 04:51 PM	#13
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Change: One OPTIMISTS argument. For TWO years I\'ve told WhoDat this team had the talent to go to the playoffs. For TWO years WhoDat has told me that that the \"coaching\" wasn\'t going to allow that to happen. Well, I still think we had the talent to go to the playoffs. But, WhoDat (I hate to say this) was right!! Haslett and co. have done a lot to keep this team out of the playoffs. Most of which I think has to do with his insistance on keeping Venturi at D-coordinator. And his faillure to address weaknesses in free-agency. So, making changes might have gotten us further than what we have made it. But, that does not mean Haslett can\'t or won\'t get the job done. I\'ve preached for TWO years that coaching only plays a limited role in a teams success. Good coaching does NOT = good teams. How\'s Jon Gruden, Bill Parcells, Mike Holmgren, or Mike Shanahan doing? Most of those coaches are probably on the verge on getting fired if they don\'t get over the hump soon!! Haslett has taken longer than I would have liked. That still does NOT mean it\'s been all his fault. And it doesn\'t mean he\'s above taking much of the blame, either. I truly believe Haslett is a good coach that has made some mistakes. I don\'t have a crystal ball and I have no idea how the 2005 season is gonna go. I will not be pessimistic just because of what\'s happend in the past. I will look at things objectively and if I think we\'re gonna suck, then that\'s what I\'ll say. As of right NOW, It\'s wait and see baby!!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-25-2005, 05:00 PM	#14
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Change: One OPTIMISTS argument. Coaching only provides a limited influence? I\'m sorry..but I disagree.. If I were to coach the Pats..you would see a much digressed version of the dynasty you see now... Like a General on the Field..A Coach ultimatley decides..winning or losing..preperation is the key...and the H...haha
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

02-25-2005, 05:02 PM	#15
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Change: One OPTIMISTS argument. Coaching only provides a limited influence? I\'m sorry..but I disagree.. If I were to coach the Pats..you would see a much digressed version of the dynasty you see now... Like a General on the Field..A Coach ultimatley decides..winning or losing..preperation is the key...and the H...haha Yeah, I suppose Belichick don\'t have any talent up there in New England. You\'re telling me the samething folks told me about Holmgren, Shanahan, and Gruden. Not to mention Parcells. The simple FACT is that when the talent get\'s gone, the coach ain\'t far behind. [Edited on 25/2/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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02-25-2005, 05:30 PM	#16
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Change: One OPTIMISTS argument. To this day he genuinely hates Ali. Yea, you lend a brother who\'s down on his luck some much needed support and a boatload of cash to bail him out of his own mess, and he turns around and ridicules you to the press, you tend to hold a grudge. What did Ali call him? An ignorant gorilla or something as insulting as that? Muhammed Ali could be the most over-rated sports hero to ever walk this planet.

02-25-2005, 06:23 PM	#17
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Change: One OPTIMISTS argument. Yeah, I suppose Belichick don\'t have any talent up there in New England. [Edited on 25/2/2005 by GumboBC] [/quote:b3f0d10272] Yes..he has a very talented team..and they didn\'t just fall from the sky..he hand picked this team..and he got the guys he wanted..and showed them how to do the things he wants them to do...and his system works...he gets the guys he needs..and makes it happen... Coachng is key to success...not only HC..but all the Assistants..and trainers...If you surround yourself with winners..you win...that was Bill\'s job..and he did very well...
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

02-25-2005, 06:47 PM	#18
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Change: One OPTIMISTS argument. Yes..he has a very talented team..and they didn\'t just fall from the sky..he hand picked this team..and he got the guys he wanted..and showed them how to do the things he wants them to do...and his system works...he gets the guys he needs..and makes it happen... Coachng is key to success...not only HC..but all the Assistants..and trainers...If you surround yourself with winners..you win...that was Bill\'s job..and he did very well... While coaching is very important, I don\'t think it is the \"key\". The \"key\" is for a good coach to get good players to coach. But, that isn\'t exactly \"coaching\" is it? Coaching ain\'t gonna get you but so far if you don\'t have the right players. As Bill Parcells, Jon Gruden, Mike Shanahan, and Mike Holmgren would probably tell you. And \"coaches\" have a hard time trying to get those good players. As Bill Parcells, Jon Gruden, Mike Shanahan, and Mike Holmgren would probably tell you. What\'s Holmgren without Favre, Reggie White, and co? What\'s Shanahan without John Elway and Terrell Davis? What was Jimmy Johnson without Troy Aikman, Emmit Smith, and Michael Irvin. IF a coach can get the right talent, then his coaching talents will have a chance to succeed. If not, they ain\'t so hot. GMs play an instrumental part in building football teams. And it\'s the coach who gets most of the glory. I\'m not saying coaching isn\'t very important. Cause it is. But it takes much more than a good coach to get it done.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-25-2005, 08:42 PM	#19
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Change: One OPTIMISTS argument. I can, for the most part, agree with that...
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517