Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.

02-19-2016, 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Year after year people still doubt Loomis' cap skills.

We're 8 million UNDER the cap right now, and I'm sure more to come.

I still do.

shoveling a pile of crap over shoulder only gets you so far till you turn around and have to shovel it yet again.

The saints over payed out of super bowl loyalty and that is why we are were we are today. I hope they learned a lesson.

Micky has to play this game till 2017 so then I will judge from that point on.

So we can sign our draft class and have some change left over.

Danno · 02-19-2016, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

I still do.

shoveling a pile of crap over shoulder only gets you so far till you turn around and have to shovel it yet again.

The saints over payed out of super bowl loyalty and that is why we are were we are today. I hope they learned a lesson.

Micky has to play this game till 2017 so then I will judge from that point on.

So we can sign our draft class and have some change left over.

You aren't the one with the shovel, you just watch the man with the shovel, and he is one of the best shovelers in the league.

Don't doubt his ability to shovel, just admire it.

burningmetal · 02-19-2016, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

You aren't the one with the shovel, you just watch the man with the shovel, and he is one of the best shovelers in the league.

Don't doubt his ability to shovel, just admire it.

I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking?

That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is.

Danno · 02-19-2016, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking?

That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is.

I'm speaking of his cap management skills, not personnel decisions. None of us know who is actually making the decisions on these guys.

burningmetal · 02-19-2016, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I'm speaking of his cap management skills, not personnel decisions. None of us know who is actually making the decisions on these guys.

Alright, but I'm talking everything he does. I am least of all referring to his personnel decisions, though. It's less about the players, themselves, as it is to do with the contracts given. He's not wise about spreading things out. He just goes all in on one or two guys. No one can predict injuries, but when you put too many eggs in one basket you run a high risk of getting burned. I was actually excited about Byrd when he first came here, but the contract itself made me cringe when I saw it. It did not give me a good feeling, but I hoped Byrd would at least make the team better... Unfortunately that has not been the case.

But we are always in cap purgatory because of his so called cap "skills". When you have to turn around and dump a bunch of players and absorb huge amounts of wasted money, it's hard for me to see that as anything but evidence of past failures.

AsylumGuido · 02-19-2016, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by 44Champs

Thank you, Cam Jordan. Team player off the field. This wouldnt have been possibe without his cooperation.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Are you serious? Cam Jordan didn't have anything to do with this. Loomis commonly structures contracts with roster bonuses that can be converted to signing bonuses to prorate the cap hit over future years. Jordan agreed to this when he signed the contract. It is solely the option of the team itself whether they want to take advantage of the clause. It is a unilateral decision made by the team alone. Jordan had nothing to do with it beyond agreeing to it far in advance and it is something ALL players will agree to since it costs them nothing.

It is surprising how little the fanbase and the media itself know about the financial side of the business.

AsylumGuido · 02-19-2016, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

I still do.

shoveling a pile of crap over shoulder only gets you so far till you turn around and have to shovel it yet again.

The saints over payed out of super bowl loyalty and that is why we are were we are today. I hope they learned a lesson.

Micky has to play this game till 2017 so then I will judge from that point on.

So we can sign our draft class and have some change left over.

That "shoveling" is called cost accounting and every successful business uses the same means of guaranteeing cash flow. As I have pointed out numerous times, Loomis is an accountant and a very good one at that. He knows that the cap is continuously climbing and will continue to climb. It makes financial sense to defer expenses (player salary in this case) into periods with greater operating fund availability (cap room). This is basic accounting principle. Trust me. I too have a degree in accounting.

Too many writers believe the crap spouted by media members concerning things like "cap hell" when said writers have absolutely no concept of how things work.

Now I know you, and others around here that have also been confused by listening to all the nonsense, will not take any of this to heart either through your (expansively meant) stubborn refusal to learn or through the total inability to understand the concept. Sadly, there is nothing we can do to help in those cases.

AsylumGuido · 02-19-2016, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking?

That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is.

No. He is not "delaying the inevitable". The fact is that nothing of the sort IS inevitable. Once again, you are listening to the uninformed media and the equally uniformed mass of fellow fans. As for decision making, Loomis is not the one making the decisions. He is the one making the decisions financially possible and no one in the business is better at this absolute skill.

AsylumGuido · 02-19-2016, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Alright, but I'm talking everything he does. I am least of all referring to his personnel decisions, though. It's less about the players, themselves, as it is to do with the contracts given. He's not wise about spreading things out. He just goes all in on one or two guys. No one can predict injuries, but when you put too many eggs in one basket you run a high risk of getting burned. I was actually excited about Byrd when he first came here, but the contract itself made me cringe when I saw it. It did not give me a good feeling, but I hoped Byrd would at least make the team better... Unfortunately that has not been the case.

But we are always in cap purgatory because of his so called cap "skills". When you have to turn around and dump a bunch of players and absorb huge amounts of wasted money, it's hard for me to see that as anything but evidence of past failures.

Your whole premise is that the Saints are in "cap purgatory" or "cap hell". That is not the case at all. Cost accounting is not based upon a snapshot. It is fluid. You have to be able to project into the future. You have to understand that expenses incurred today will reflect a lower percentage of the total when being moved into the future with greater operating fund availability.

Most NFL GM's are personnel men, not accountants. They operate within the current period for the most part. They are wasting potential operating space due to there lack of financial knowledge.

Don't trust anything about finances coming from writers that for the most part live check to check and most likely have no idea how to even balance that checkbook.

burningmetal · 02-19-2016, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Your whole premise is that the Saints are in "cap purgatory" or "cap hell". That is not the case at all. Cost accounting is not based upon a snapshot. It is fluid. You have to be able to project into the future. You have to understand that expenses incurred today will reflect a lower percentage of the total when being moved into the future with greater operating fund availability.

Most NFL GM's are personnel men, not accountants. They operate within the current period for the most part. They are wasting potential operating space due to there lack of financial knowledge.

Don't trust anything about finances coming from writers that for the most part live check to check and most likely have no idea how to even balance that checkbook.

I'm not listening to uninformed media, or fans. I'm going by the numbers. The numbers always say we're brushing up against the cap, and that fact is supported by the fact that we consistently fail to fill huge holes, because there aren't enough funds to make a run at the top players on the market. It's that simple. I know you think you're the smartest person in the room, but if you think we know nothing because we aren't "behind the scenes", then you know nothing either. So maybe you should take your holier than thou mentality and join the media whom you revile so much.

I know all about the fact that the cap number changes from year to year, and ideally they would operate under that premise. But when we're getting out-bid and consequently outperformed, it shows that Loomis is NOT one of the best in the business. He got plain lucky to get Brees coming off a shoulder injury, and then this team got lucky on some low round picks. Those guys carried this team. They are mostly all gone now, and what do you see out on the field?

Your pompous assumption that writers who live from check to check can't balance a check book is just another strike against your credibility. You sound bitter and egotistical. You said writers, but I know you mean all of us (the little people). Well who are you? What are you doing here? If you think you are privy to so much that we somehow aren't, then why do you come here and argue with us? Why aren't you working in the NFL? Did it ever occur to you, that you're here for the same reason as everyone else... to give an opinion? You don't have to agree, pal, but if you are so maddened by it all that you think no one should even be allowed to speak on it then you shouldn't be opining, either.

02-19-2016, 03:30 AM	#21
Threaded by hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by Danno Year after year people still doubt Loomis' cap skills. We're 8 million UNDER the cap right now, and I'm sure more to come. I still do. shoveling a pile of crap over shoulder only gets you so far till you turn around and have to shovel it yet again. The saints over payed out of super bowl loyalty and that is why we are were we are today. I hope they learned a lesson. Micky has to play this game till 2017 so then I will judge from that point on. So we can sign our draft class and have some change left over.
Views: 8761

02-19-2016, 08:03 AM	#22
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by hagan714 I still do. shoveling a pile of crap over shoulder only gets you so far till you turn around and have to shovel it yet again. The saints over payed out of super bowl loyalty and that is why we are were we are today. I hope they learned a lesson. Micky has to play this game till 2017 so then I will judge from that point on. So we can sign our draft class and have some change left over. You aren't the one with the shovel, you just watch the man with the shovel, and he is one of the best shovelers in the league. Don't doubt his ability to shovel, just admire it. AsylumGuido likes this.

02-19-2016, 11:03 AM	#23
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by Danno You aren't the one with the shovel, you just watch the man with the shovel, and he is one of the best shovelers in the league. Don't doubt his ability to shovel, just admire it. I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking? That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

02-19-2016, 11:57 AM	#24
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by burningmetal I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking? That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is. I'm speaking of his cap management skills, not personnel decisions. None of us know who is actually making the decisions on these guys. AsylumGuido likes this.

02-19-2016, 12:12 PM	#25
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by Danno I'm speaking of his cap management skills, not personnel decisions. None of us know who is actually making the decisions on these guys. Alright, but I'm talking everything he does. I am least of all referring to his personnel decisions, though. It's less about the players, themselves, as it is to do with the contracts given. He's not wise about spreading things out. He just goes all in on one or two guys. No one can predict injuries, but when you put too many eggs in one basket you run a high risk of getting burned. I was actually excited about Byrd when he first came here, but the contract itself made me cringe when I saw it. It did not give me a good feeling, but I hoped Byrd would at least make the team better... Unfortunately that has not been the case. But we are always in cap purgatory because of his so called cap "skills". When you have to turn around and dump a bunch of players and absorb huge amounts of wasted money, it's hard for me to see that as anything but evidence of past failures.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

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02-19-2016, 12:20 PM	#26
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by 44Champs Thank you, Cam Jordan. Team player off the field. This wouldnt have been possibe without his cooperation. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Are you serious? Cam Jordan didn't have anything to do with this. Loomis commonly structures contracts with roster bonuses that can be converted to signing bonuses to prorate the cap hit over future years. Jordan agreed to this when he signed the contract. It is solely the option of the team itself whether they want to take advantage of the clause. It is a unilateral decision made by the team alone. Jordan had nothing to do with it beyond agreeing to it far in advance and it is something ALL players will agree to since it costs them nothing. It is surprising how little the fanbase and the media itself know about the financial side of the business.

02-19-2016, 12:31 PM	#27
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by hagan714 I still do. shoveling a pile of crap over shoulder only gets you so far till you turn around and have to shovel it yet again. The saints over payed out of super bowl loyalty and that is why we are were we are today. I hope they learned a lesson. Micky has to play this game till 2017 so then I will judge from that point on. So we can sign our draft class and have some change left over. That "shoveling" is called cost accounting and every successful business uses the same means of guaranteeing cash flow. As I have pointed out numerous times, Loomis is an accountant and a very good one at that. He knows that the cap is continuously climbing and will continue to climb. It makes financial sense to defer expenses (player salary in this case) into periods with greater operating fund availability (cap room). This is basic accounting principle. Trust me. I too have a degree in accounting. Too many writers believe the crap spouted by media members concerning things like "cap hell" when said writers have absolutely no concept of how things work. Now I know you, and others around here that have also been confused by listening to all the nonsense, will not take any of this to heart either through your (expansively meant) stubborn refusal to learn or through the total inability to understand the concept. Sadly, there is nothing we can do to help in those cases.

02-19-2016, 12:36 PM	#28
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by burningmetal I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking? That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is. No. He is not "delaying the inevitable". The fact is that nothing of the sort IS inevitable. Once again, you are listening to the uninformed media and the equally uniformed mass of fellow fans. As for decision making, Loomis is not the one making the decisions. He is the one making the decisions financially possible and no one in the business is better at this absolute skill.

02-19-2016, 12:46 PM	#29
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by burningmetal Alright, but I'm talking everything he does. I am least of all referring to his personnel decisions, though. It's less about the players, themselves, as it is to do with the contracts given. He's not wise about spreading things out. He just goes all in on one or two guys. No one can predict injuries, but when you put too many eggs in one basket you run a high risk of getting burned. I was actually excited about Byrd when he first came here, but the contract itself made me cringe when I saw it. It did not give me a good feeling, but I hoped Byrd would at least make the team better... Unfortunately that has not been the case. But we are always in cap purgatory because of his so called cap "skills". When you have to turn around and dump a bunch of players and absorb huge amounts of wasted money, it's hard for me to see that as anything but evidence of past failures. Your whole premise is that the Saints are in "cap purgatory" or "cap hell". That is not the case at all. Cost accounting is not based upon a snapshot. It is fluid. You have to be able to project into the future. You have to understand that expenses incurred today will reflect a lower percentage of the total when being moved into the future with greater operating fund availability. Most NFL GM's are personnel men, not accountants. They operate within the current period for the most part. They are wasting potential operating space due to there lack of financial knowledge. Don't trust anything about finances coming from writers that for the most part live check to check and most likely have no idea how to even balance that checkbook.

02-19-2016, 02:33 PM	#30
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Your whole premise is that the Saints are in "cap purgatory" or "cap hell". That is not the case at all. Cost accounting is not based upon a snapshot. It is fluid. You have to be able to project into the future. You have to understand that expenses incurred today will reflect a lower percentage of the total when being moved into the future with greater operating fund availability. Most NFL GM's are personnel men, not accountants. They operate within the current period for the most part. They are wasting potential operating space due to there lack of financial knowledge. Don't trust anything about finances coming from writers that for the most part live check to check and most likely have no idea how to even balance that checkbook. I'm not listening to uninformed media, or fans. I'm going by the numbers. The numbers always say we're brushing up against the cap, and that fact is supported by the fact that we consistently fail to fill huge holes, because there aren't enough funds to make a run at the top players on the market. It's that simple. I know you think you're the smartest person in the room, but if you think we know nothing because we aren't "behind the scenes", then you know nothing either. So maybe you should take your holier than thou mentality and join the media whom you revile so much. I know all about the fact that the cap number changes from year to year, and ideally they would operate under that premise. But when we're getting out-bid and consequently outperformed, it shows that Loomis is NOT one of the best in the business. He got plain lucky to get Brees coming off a shoulder injury, and then this team got lucky on some low round picks. Those guys carried this team. They are mostly all gone now, and what do you see out on the field? Your pompous assumption that writers who live from check to check can't balance a check book is just another strike against your credibility. You sound bitter and egotistical. You said writers, but I know you mean all of us (the little people). Well who are you? What are you doing here? If you think you are privy to so much that we somehow aren't, then why do you come here and argue with us? Why aren't you working in the NFL? Did it ever occur to you, that you're here for the same reason as everyone else... to give an opinion? You don't have to agree, pal, but if you are so maddened by it all that you think no one should even be allowed to speak on it then you shouldn't be opining, either.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

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