Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space.

Danno · 02-17-2016, 11:57 AM

Year after year people still doubt Loomis' cap skills.

We're 8 million UNDER the cap right now, and I'm sure more to come.

burningmetal · 02-18-2016, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Year after year people still doubt Loomis' cap skills.

We're 8 million UNDER the cap right now, and I'm sure more to come.

Count me in among those who still doubt him. What he's doing here is not a skill. He's dropping players who he over-paid in the first place, and often restructuring contracts that hurt us down the road. The Jordan thing makes sense, and is an easy move. An extension with Brees is about as obvious as it gets.

There are multiple reasons for this team's suckage in recent years, and Loomis' poor contracts and constant back-loading are among them. I've said that you can't afford to worry about dead money moving forward. Some people thought this team should hang onto Browner because of the dead money, but that makes zero sense. That being said, it still looks bad on Mickey's part that he's got that much wasted money floating around.

ScottF · 02-18-2016, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Year after year people still doubt Loomis' cap skills.

We're 8 million UNDER the cap right now, and I'm sure more to come.

Yes.
This stuff isn't accidental. Loomis has had a few misteps, but you know that as soon as he signed Jordan's deal that this is what he had in mind

hagan714 · 02-19-2016, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Year after year people still doubt Loomis' cap skills.

We're 8 million UNDER the cap right now, and I'm sure more to come.

I still do.

shoveling a pile of crap over shoulder only gets you so far till you turn around and have to shovel it yet again.

The saints over payed out of super bowl loyalty and that is why we are were we are today. I hope they learned a lesson.

Micky has to play this game till 2017 so then I will judge from that point on.

So we can sign our draft class and have some change left over.

Danno · 02-19-2016, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

I still do.

shoveling a pile of crap over shoulder only gets you so far till you turn around and have to shovel it yet again.

The saints over payed out of super bowl loyalty and that is why we are were we are today. I hope they learned a lesson.

Micky has to play this game till 2017 so then I will judge from that point on.

So we can sign our draft class and have some change left over.

You aren't the one with the shovel, you just watch the man with the shovel, and he is one of the best shovelers in the league.

Don't doubt his ability to shovel, just admire it.

burningmetal · 02-19-2016, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

You aren't the one with the shovel, you just watch the man with the shovel, and he is one of the best shovelers in the league.

Don't doubt his ability to shovel, just admire it.

I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking?

That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is.

Danno · 02-19-2016, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking?

That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is.

I'm speaking of his cap management skills, not personnel decisions. None of us know who is actually making the decisions on these guys.

burningmetal · 02-19-2016, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

I'm speaking of his cap management skills, not personnel decisions. None of us know who is actually making the decisions on these guys.

Alright, but I'm talking everything he does. I am least of all referring to his personnel decisions, though. It's less about the players, themselves, as it is to do with the contracts given. He's not wise about spreading things out. He just goes all in on one or two guys. No one can predict injuries, but when you put too many eggs in one basket you run a high risk of getting burned. I was actually excited about Byrd when he first came here, but the contract itself made me cringe when I saw it. It did not give me a good feeling, but I hoped Byrd would at least make the team better... Unfortunately that has not been the case.

But we are always in cap purgatory because of his so called cap "skills". When you have to turn around and dump a bunch of players and absorb huge amounts of wasted money, it's hard for me to see that as anything but evidence of past failures.

AsylumGuido · 02-19-2016, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Alright, but I'm talking everything he does. I am least of all referring to his personnel decisions, though. It's less about the players, themselves, as it is to do with the contracts given. He's not wise about spreading things out. He just goes all in on one or two guys. No one can predict injuries, but when you put too many eggs in one basket you run a high risk of getting burned. I was actually excited about Byrd when he first came here, but the contract itself made me cringe when I saw it. It did not give me a good feeling, but I hoped Byrd would at least make the team better... Unfortunately that has not been the case.

But we are always in cap purgatory because of his so called cap "skills". When you have to turn around and dump a bunch of players and absorb huge amounts of wasted money, it's hard for me to see that as anything but evidence of past failures.

Your whole premise is that the Saints are in "cap purgatory" or "cap hell". That is not the case at all. Cost accounting is not based upon a snapshot. It is fluid. You have to be able to project into the future. You have to understand that expenses incurred today will reflect a lower percentage of the total when being moved into the future with greater operating fund availability.

Most NFL GM's are personnel men, not accountants. They operate within the current period for the most part. They are wasting potential operating space due to there lack of financial knowledge.

Don't trust anything about finances coming from writers that for the most part live check to check and most likely have no idea how to even balance that checkbook.

AsylumGuido · 02-19-2016, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking?

That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is.

No. He is not "delaying the inevitable". The fact is that nothing of the sort IS inevitable. Once again, you are listening to the uninformed media and the equally uniformed mass of fellow fans. As for decision making, Loomis is not the one making the decisions. He is the one making the decisions financially possible and no one in the business is better at this absolute skill.

02-17-2016, 11:57 AM	#1
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Year after year people still doubt Loomis' cap skills. We're 8 million UNDER the cap right now, and I'm sure more to come. Halo and CheramieIII like this.

02-18-2016, 03:49 AM	#2
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by Danno Year after year people still doubt Loomis' cap skills. We're 8 million UNDER the cap right now, and I'm sure more to come. Count me in among those who still doubt him. What he's doing here is not a skill. He's dropping players who he over-paid in the first place, and often restructuring contracts that hurt us down the road. The Jordan thing makes sense, and is an easy move. An extension with Brees is about as obvious as it gets. There are multiple reasons for this team's suckage in recent years, and Loomis' poor contracts and constant back-loading are among them. I've said that you can't afford to worry about dead money moving forward. Some people thought this team should hang onto Browner because of the dead money, but that makes zero sense. That being said, it still looks bad on Mickey's part that he's got that much wasted money floating around. dizzle88 likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

02-18-2016, 11:01 AM	#3
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by Danno Year after year people still doubt Loomis' cap skills. We're 8 million UNDER the cap right now, and I'm sure more to come. Yes. This stuff isn't accidental. Loomis has had a few misteps, but you know that as soon as he signed Jordan's deal that this is what he had in mind

02-19-2016, 02:30 AM	#4
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by Danno Year after year people still doubt Loomis' cap skills. We're 8 million UNDER the cap right now, and I'm sure more to come. I still do. shoveling a pile of crap over shoulder only gets you so far till you turn around and have to shovel it yet again. The saints over payed out of super bowl loyalty and that is why we are were we are today. I hope they learned a lesson. Micky has to play this game till 2017 so then I will judge from that point on. So we can sign our draft class and have some change left over.

02-19-2016, 07:03 AM	#5
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by hagan714 I still do. shoveling a pile of crap over shoulder only gets you so far till you turn around and have to shovel it yet again. The saints over payed out of super bowl loyalty and that is why we are were we are today. I hope they learned a lesson. Micky has to play this game till 2017 so then I will judge from that point on. So we can sign our draft class and have some change left over. You aren't the one with the shovel, you just watch the man with the shovel, and he is one of the best shovelers in the league. Don't doubt his ability to shovel, just admire it. AsylumGuido likes this.

02-19-2016, 10:03 AM	#6
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by Danno You aren't the one with the shovel, you just watch the man with the shovel, and he is one of the best shovelers in the league. Don't doubt his ability to shovel, just admire it. I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking? That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

02-19-2016, 10:57 AM	#7
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by burningmetal I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking? That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is. I'm speaking of his cap management skills, not personnel decisions. None of us know who is actually making the decisions on these guys. AsylumGuido likes this.

02-19-2016, 11:12 AM	#8
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by Danno I'm speaking of his cap management skills, not personnel decisions. None of us know who is actually making the decisions on these guys. Alright, but I'm talking everything he does. I am least of all referring to his personnel decisions, though. It's less about the players, themselves, as it is to do with the contracts given. He's not wise about spreading things out. He just goes all in on one or two guys. No one can predict injuries, but when you put too many eggs in one basket you run a high risk of getting burned. I was actually excited about Byrd when he first came here, but the contract itself made me cringe when I saw it. It did not give me a good feeling, but I hoped Byrd would at least make the team better... Unfortunately that has not been the case. But we are always in cap purgatory because of his so called cap "skills". When you have to turn around and dump a bunch of players and absorb huge amounts of wasted money, it's hard for me to see that as anything but evidence of past failures.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

02-19-2016, 11:46 AM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,853	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by burningmetal Alright, but I'm talking everything he does. I am least of all referring to his personnel decisions, though. It's less about the players, themselves, as it is to do with the contracts given. He's not wise about spreading things out. He just goes all in on one or two guys. No one can predict injuries, but when you put too many eggs in one basket you run a high risk of getting burned. I was actually excited about Byrd when he first came here, but the contract itself made me cringe when I saw it. It did not give me a good feeling, but I hoped Byrd would at least make the team better... Unfortunately that has not been the case. But we are always in cap purgatory because of his so called cap "skills". When you have to turn around and dump a bunch of players and absorb huge amounts of wasted money, it's hard for me to see that as anything but evidence of past failures. Your whole premise is that the Saints are in "cap purgatory" or "cap hell". That is not the case at all. Cost accounting is not based upon a snapshot. It is fluid. You have to be able to project into the future. You have to understand that expenses incurred today will reflect a lower percentage of the total when being moved into the future with greater operating fund availability. Most NFL GM's are personnel men, not accountants. They operate within the current period for the most part. They are wasting potential operating space due to there lack of financial knowledge. Don't trust anything about finances coming from writers that for the most part live check to check and most likely have no idea how to even balance that checkbook.

02-19-2016, 11:36 AM	#10
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,853	Re: Saints convert Cam Jordan's roster bonus into signing bonus. Creating $4.8 million in cap space. Originally Posted by burningmetal I'm sorry, I just about lost it after reading this. What are we admiring now? The best shoveler? So he consistently has us up against it, and basically bales water out of a sinking ship, but because he's the best at delaying the inevitable, the ship is not still sinking? That's not really impressive, to me. I'm hopeful that as roles are changing in the front office, we'll see improvement with less decisons being made by Loomis. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful on that. But we wouldn't be where we are if this guy where the genius some want to believe he is. No. He is not "delaying the inevitable". The fact is that nothing of the sort IS inevitable. Once again, you are listening to the uninformed media and the equally uniformed mass of fellow fans. As for decision making, Loomis is not the one making the decisions. He is the one making the decisions financially possible and no one in the business is better at this absolute skill.

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