Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

I wonder if the Saints will consider retiring Will's #

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Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

there is rarely a decent excuse to pull out a gun. We just dont have all the facts. Yes it looks guilty and I think he is but that is my specutlation BUT, I will always try to wait until all the facts come out to form and opinion. There is too much emotion and too little information right now for me to do that. Many policeman and citizens have had to use self defense to protect themselves. The court of public opinion will portray it as murder only to find out later there was more to the story. It often leads to people jumping to conclusions which starts riots that ultimately cause more violence.

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Self-Defense when Will was shot in the back, something like 5 times? Sitting in the drivers seat might I add...

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

That's the part I can't get out of my head... all the conspiracies and two gun theories be damned. Shot in the back 5 times.... :confused: Self defense? Really??

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

The thing that gets to me, it was reported he didn't know Smith... Just shot him through the window without seeing his face or what?! :confused:

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

I don't think it was self defense. Hayes actually went back to his car to get the gun. That right there throws out self defense. If the threat had calmed to the point he was able to go back to his car then he could have either stayed there or fled for his life.

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

That's BS from what I understand the were both drafted by the Saints the same year and Smith was good friends with the man who shot and killed Hayes father in self defense. At the very least Hayes knew Smith. I think there was more to it than simply road rage

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Nope, Hayes (28) was still a Louisiana high school prospect when Smith (34) was drafted in '04. This was just, "I got a gun"/"I'ma go get my gun" stuff that just escalates, #smh. IDK about the other stuff. The fact the shooter didn't leave the scene and willfully submitted to arrest tells me he probably felt threatened in some way by Smith, physically or verbally.

Never should of happened, :neutral:.

Everyone making judgements on guilt or innocence IMO are missing the point...tragedy for all parties involved regardless of legal outcome. — T-Bob Hebert (@TBob53) April 12, 2016

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

I agree 200%. I got the draft info from WWL. Just goes to show that even the media will jump to conclusions and get their facts mixed up. It's really doesn't matter anyway, a life was lost and two families will suffer.

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

BREAKING: Police: Loaded gun found in Will Smith's vehicle; second loaded gun also in Cardell Hayes' vehicle

from wwl.com

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

This might get really interesting

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Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Yep, perhaps Will threatened Hayes and went to his car to get his gun, and Hayes shot him before Will got his gun? That would explain why the shooter didn't flee the scene.

It is about to get interesting.

This dude may walk.

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Now enlighten with new evidence that a witness accounted what led to the brutal death to will smith I have a change of heart in the death penalty for the defendant. Witness at the scene of the accident say will smith was the aggressor ... His quote " I guess this guy (will smith) was like get out ***** I have a gun. And he (Hayes) goes ***** y'all I got one too and he (Hayes) grabs a gun and then he shoots him (will Smith) in the back, dead. Later police finds a will smith loaded gun.

I believe Louisiana is a stand your ground state, which in accounts will set Hayes free. I don't like it, I hate it but by the letter of the law this guy will be free if this is what truly happened

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Exactly what I'm thinking

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Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

What everyone is failing to realize, Smith hit Hayes Hummer and tried to flee. Hayes chases him down and then Will was killed, I don't see self defense... Police should have been called and Will Smith should have been arrested for hit and run, rather than shot multiple times... :rolleyes:

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

It's the threat that he was going to shoot Hayes and will smith having a loaded gun in his vehicle that will set this guy free. "Stand your ground law"

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Negative; You can't go looking for a fight and then shoot someone and claim stand your ground. That's like someone threatening you, but leaves the area. You go kill them and claim self defense, doesn't work that way...

Now if Will would have hit him and jumped out with a gun in his possession, then you have the right to "stand your ground"

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

The key words were " loaded gun IN Smith's car". If they found it on his person or on the ground it would be different. A threat like "I'm going to get my gun" is not against the law in Louisiana. Now, if he did it in public where a bunch of reasonable citizens heard then Smith could of been arrested for Terrorizing. Until it is proven he had a gun on his person the charge will stick.

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

It looks like the sudden stop by hayes in the video caused Will to bump him. It didn't look like much of a hit. I guess technically he should have stopped, but that was hardly reason for Hayes to want to chase him over it. If some gigantic dude comes at my car (yes I know Will was big, too), and is yelling at me, I'd probably go get my gun if I had one. Will could have told him he had a gun to make him back off, but got shot instead.

You don't go chasing people down and causing a wreck, if you're not looking for trouble. I could be completely wrong, of course, but the idea that someone said Will was the aggressor based on whatever he said, sounds ridiculous. Will taps the back of the hummer, and then gets slammed into. I would imagine that would make him pretty angry as well as feel threatened that this guy could do anything. But everyone is assuming the opposite now.

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Unless Will Smith was pointing a gun at him, I dont think that constitutes standing your ground. But if he was going to get a gun, sounds like Cardelle was thinking he was gonna shoot him before Will had a chance.
-------
I pulled this off the internet:

Not too long ago, standing your ground meant, in part, proving that you tried to retreat from a threat before using self-defense...but not anymore.

"A judge or jury cannot consider the fact that you did not retreat if you're being tried for killing somebody when the defense is justifiable homicide," says Desoto Parish District Attorney, Richard Johnson.

Johnson says Louisiana's law is similar to Florida's and he says the law does not give you the right to aggressively pursue anyone.

"You're allowed to use deadly force and that a homicide is justifiable if you are in imminent danger of losing your life or receiving great bodily harm."

A person must also be acting lawfully in order to claim "Stand Your Ground" as a defense.

"If you see an assailant pointing at you with a gun or taking aim at you, you don't have to turn and run away," says Johnson.



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Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

...

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

I don't think if I was in Hayes position I would wait for him to get his gun before I react after he said he is going to get his gun. I hate that this happen but the guy is innocent if this what happen. Was he to aggressive by shooting his wife, certainly but if you threaten you might do about anything to survive.


This about to get very interesting cause I was told a weapon do not suppose to be loaded while in vehicle. Both parties did have loaded weapons

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

State of Louisiana, your vehicle is an extension of your home, you can have as many loaded guns as you want. As long as you are not a felon and they are legal of course... I carry a loaded .40 in my mustang pretty much all the time, in a holster mounted between the seat and center console. Easy to get to

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

If he gets off it will be a technicality, but if it happened the way it's being described, he's hardly innocent. He pursued Smith, and he brought any danger he perceived on himself. Because if he's coming at Smith and making any sort of threat, Will has the right to defend himself. If the guy peaceably approaches, then things could have been much different. But he chased him down, obviously looking for a fight.

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

It sounds like he chased down Smith looking for a fight, shooting someone 5 times doesn't sound like self defense, it sounds like a thug wanting to be able to brag that he took out a celebrity

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Given the history between the two, I'm starting to thinknthat Smithbwasnt totally innocent in this whole scenario. I think Smith knew it was Hayes in that H2 when he hit and run.

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Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

What history? I've theorized that Hayes might have been aware that Smith was friends with Ceravolo, and might have spotted the two hanging out that night. In the video, it was odd the way Hayes seemed to stop for no apparent reason, as if trying to instigate something. And maybe he pulled over thinking Smith would also pull over, and he'd fight him or shoot him then. It's only a theory, but something that makes me wonder.

But other than Hayes possibly knowing of Smith and Ceravolo being friends, I have heard nothing of Smith and Hayes having any personal history.

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

I heard wrong,,, you can carry a loaded gun


LOCAL - Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League - FAQ

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Video of fender bender before the incident later
Watch apparent hit-and-run minutes before Will Smith's shooting death | NOLA.com

Apparently Will was shot in the back...hard to call self defense on that

Will Smith shot in back, right torso by accused killer Cardell Hayes, NOPD says | NOLA.com

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...mith-shooting/. Witness account of the event

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...mith-shooting/

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Smith was friends with the policeman that shot and killed his father - I think that makes it personal to some degree.

"Hayes sued the NOPD and six officers after police shot and killed his father, Anthony Hayes, on Dec. 26, 2005. The federal lawsuit was settled in September 2011, while attorneys were preparing for trial in the case. Court papers don't describe the settlement. According to the lawsuit, several people told the officers that Anthony Hayes had a history of mental illness.

Police said they shot Anthony Hayes after he lunged at them with a 3-inch-long knife. Bystanders had video of officers surrounding Hayes but not of the shooting. Six officers were defendants in the lawsuit, which said Anthony Hayes was shot at least nine times and alleged that officers should have used nonlethal force.

Police officer William Ceravolo was among the officers named in the lawsuit. Now retired, Ceravolo*told the New Orleans Advocate*that he had dinner with Smith and former Saints running back Pierre Thomas on Saturday before the fatal incident. Photos circulated Sunday on social media of Smith, Thomas and Ceravolo."



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Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Dude, that's what I just said to you. That's the exact connection I made with him possibly knowing that Smith was friends with Ceravolo. But that isn't a "history" as you put it. I'm not sure why Will would know who Hayes is. What happened between Hayes' father and Ceravolo had nothing to do with Smith. I can see Hayes knowing of Smith was and having a petty axe to grind, but I just don't see how Smith would have recognized Hayes, especially in the dark. If Hayes knew that it was Smith in the other vehicle, I'm guessing it's because he spotted him at the restaurant.

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

The way I look at it, Hayes was rear end by will smith. he pulled over assuming will smith will do as well to change insurance info and to access the damages to his vehicle, instead will smith went around and fled, Hayes pursuit claiming he was trying to get license plate and rear ended will smith. Will smith exited his vehicle and exchanged words with Hayes. Will smith said he was going to get his gun and was returning to his vehicle. Hayes shot Smith twice once in the back and side of torso, then shot wife in the legs. Witness said she heard six shots. Later, loaded gun was found in Will Smith's vehicle

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

And in no way does that equate to the "Stand Your Ground" law...

Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

.

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Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

"History", "past" - you're stuck on semantics and I think everyone else here gets the point that I was making.

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