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-   -   Breaking News: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident (https://blackandgold.com/saints/77550-ex-saints-de-will-smith-killed-wife-shot-after-traffic-accident.html)

jeanpierre 04-12-2016 07:34 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
At the end of it all, Cardell Hayes PURSUED Smith and then shot Will Smith...and that should get him convicted of Murder Two...

burningmetal 04-12-2016 07:49 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44Champs (Post 699273)
"History", "past" - you're stuck on semantics and I think everyone else here gets the point that I was making.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
What? I didn't even use the word "past". Semantics have nothing to do with it. I wasn't concerned with the word "history". I'm saying there is no history between Smith and Hayes. There is only history between Hayes and Ceravolo. I get the motivation (though it would be an unjust motivation) that Hayes might have had to attack Smith, but there is no reason why Smith would really know who Hayes was, especially before the actual altercation.

You said with the history between the two, you think Smith knew it was Hayes when the hit and run happened (the weakest looking hit and run I've ever seen) but I'm just wondering what history there is.

The Dude 04-12-2016 08:31 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 699277)
What? I didn't even use the word "past". Semantics have nothing to do with it. I wasn't concerned with the word "history". I'm saying there is no history between Smith and Hayes. There is only history between Hayes and Ceravolo. I get the motivation (though it would be an unjust motivation) that Hayes might have had to attack Smith, but there is no reason why Smith would really know who Hayes was, especially before the actual altercation.

You said with the history between the two, you think Smith knew it was Hayes when the hit and run happened (the weakest looking hit and run I've ever seen) but I'm just wondering what history there is.
I know what you are saying. I think the confusion comes from media reports put out soon after the crime. The media claws for any connection it can to make an incident more interesting to the public. There were reports even from WWL that the two were acquaintances. One report said they were drafted together. They obviously reported some info that was speculation rather than fact. It will be a week or so before the dust settles and we know what really happened. It's sad none the less.

OldMaid 04-12-2016 08:35 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Originally Posted by OldMaid View Post
["Don't know if this ahs been posted. Ahhhh, social media where the story gets to the bottom before the police and media.

Seems to me. Premeditated murder. Revenge killing."]

See page 10.



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 698941)
The fact is that we dont know all the facts. Who knows what really went down. im sure it will come out eventually but until then all we know is that Will Smiths life was tragically cut short.
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/former-cop...opstories.html


Well, now here it is from a legit media source and not the net. I am knocking you. You are, were right. I was just posting, had posted a link from a gossip site on the net that called this.

The Dude 04-12-2016 08:42 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nola_swammi (Post 699249)
It's the threat that he was going to shoot Hayes and will smith having a loaded gun in his vehicle that will set this guy free. "Stand your ground law"
You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. People this is why you can never take to heart anything you read on forums like these concerning gun laws. It is your responsibility to know the law and you need to get it from a reputable site, not just what some dude heard.

The"stand your ground law" likely doesn't apply here. Will was inside of his own car which is an extension of your home in Louisiana. The fact that Hayes approached Smith while he was in his car and then turned around to go get his gun throws out stand your ground.

There are other scenarios where it could be ruled as self defense but most judges would throw out the Stand your ground argument in this case.

And you can absolutely open carry in Loisiana

The Dude 04-12-2016 08:44 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Mitch| (Post 699250)
Negative; You can't go looking for a fight and then shoot someone and claim stand your ground. That's like someone threatening you, but leaves the area. You go kill them and claim self defense, doesn't work that way...

Now if Will would have hit him and jumped out with a gun in his possession, then you have the right to "stand your ground"
100% correct. In the scenario above is revenge not self defense.

OldMaid 04-12-2016 08:46 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
[See page 9.

Seems like premeditated murder to me.

Hayes, like the rest of N.O's criminals, no doubt thinks he will get off and out of this. Really, the justice system etc. is a revolving door.

Only thing, being that he killed this guy, THIS GUY, along with the media a spotlight coming, the crooked judges except for Canizarro and a few others, ,and justice and revolving door of prison will have to put him away. Why? Bad N.O. publicity. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ the only thing that gets attention in our city.
Tourists will say "Well, why go there if they kill a Saints player. " "Oh we will move our convention dollars to , to, Atlanta , Houston, Dallas, etc."

neugey 04-12-2016 09:36 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
I saw earlier today Pierre Thomas posted an update on his Facebook. I would link/copy here but I'm on my work computer and firewall cuts off social media.

Can't get out of my head that Will Smith was pretty much the only player that both endured the Katrina season and won the Super Bowl. That is pretty special in my book. Man this sucks. And I can't imagine what Will's family is going through.

The Dude 04-12-2016 09:40 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neugey (Post 699286)
I saw earlier today Pierre Thomas posted an update on his Facebook. I would link/copy here but I'm on my work computer and firewall cuts off social media.

Can't get out of my head that Will Smith was pretty much the only player that both endured the Katrina season and won the Super Bowl. That is pretty special in my book. Man this sucks. And I can't imagine what Will's family is going through.
I imagine its pretty rough for them

nola_swammi 04-12-2016 10:09 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 699280)
You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. People this is why you can never take to heart anything you read on forums like these concerning gun laws. It is your responsibility to know the law and you need to get it from a reputable site, not just what some dude heard.

The"stand your ground law" likely doesn't apply here. Will was inside of his own car which is an extension of your home in Louisiana. The fact that Hayes approached Smith while he was in his car and then turned around to go get his gun throws out stand your ground.

There are other scenarios where it could be ruled as self defense but most judges would throw out the Stand your ground argument in this case.

And you can absolutely open carry in Loisiana
Will Smith was not in his car, he was walking toward his car I assume since he was shot in the back and side. Yes, he died in his car after being shot outside the car I assume. I am waiting to see all the facts. By will smith claiming to get his gun and have a loaded gun in his car can be perceive as a threat. If Hayes got out his car with his gun and approached will smith then you absolutely correct stand your ground will not apply

In the United States, a stand-your-ground law (sometimes called "line in the sand" or "no duty to retreat" law) is a law that authorizes an individual to protect and defend their own life and limb against threat or perceived threat.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

The Dude 04-12-2016 10:41 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nola_swammi (Post 699294)
Will Smith was not in his car, he was walking toward his car I assume since he was shot in the back and side. Yes, he died in his car after being shot outside the car I assume. I am waiting to see all the facts. By will smith claiming to get his gun and have a loaded gun in his car can be perceive as a threat. If Hayes got out his car with his gun and approached will smith then you absolutely correct stand your ground will not apply

In the United States, a stand-your-ground law (sometimes called "line in the sand" or "no duty to retreat" law) is a law that authorizes an individual to protect and defend their own life and limb against threat or perceived threat.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
im well aware of the gun laws here in Louisiana. Unlike you who makes an assumption and posts that "carrying a loaded gun is illegal"

And Wikipedia is NOT an accurate site. Anyone can add to it. Again another example of people not knowing how to obtain factual information. Guns are serious and in the wrong, uneducated hands can easily take a life. One of the most important part of safety is being educated. We wouldn't need more gun laws if people would take the time to know the laws that already exist.

SmashMouth 04-13-2016 08:16 AM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Cordell's passenger says his life was saved that evening

|Mitch| 04-13-2016 09:37 AM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

Crusader 04-13-2016 09:40 AM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Fully loaded handgun found in Will Smith's vehicle, but no evidence weapon was fired, police say

SmashMouth 04-13-2016 11:47 AM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Lawyer for Cardell Hayes’ passenger calls killing of Will Smith “justifiable homicide” | ProFootballTalk

NonieT 04-13-2016 12:36 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Nothing justified about being shot 8 times.

The Dude 04-13-2016 02:16 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonieT (Post 699354)
Nothing justified about being shot 8 times.
If you are shooting in self defense you don't just shoot once and stop to see if it stopped the aggressor or not. If you are shooting in self defense you continue to pull the trigger until the threat is over or you are out of ammo and then stop. It's not like he had to take the time to reload and then shoot again.

That being said I don't see the self defense excuse will hold water. He went back to his car to get his gun and then reapproached Smith. If a smart person walks up to someone's car and that person says he had a gun the smart person will retreat. Only someone who wants to prove that he is a bad ass would go back to their car to get a gun and reengage the person.

jeanpierre 04-13-2016 02:39 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Two shots, eight shots, can be understood in a stressful situation...

Again, refer to earlier post...

Cardell Hayes followed Will Smith down before running into the back of him and summarily executing him...

That is not justifiable, that is Murder two...

Have they written the taxpayer check yet for that BS settlement?!? May want to delay that check...

nola_swammi 04-13-2016 03:39 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 699295)
im well aware of the gun laws here in Louisiana. Unlike you who makes an assumption and posts that "carrying a loaded gun is illegal"

And Wikipedia is NOT an accurate site. Anyone can add to it. Again another example of people not knowing how to obtain factual information. Guns are serious and in the wrong, uneducated hands can easily take a life. One of the most important part of safety is being educated. We wouldn't need more gun laws if people would take the time to know the laws that already exist.
Dude, I am just trying to enlighten you on what I discovered about stand your ground law, I am not a lawyer, or your librarian to find out the facts about the law, if you have any FACTS to refute what I am saying please post a link, I have no problem putting up links even if I find out what I am saying is wrong. I am trying to stop going on and on about the subject cause how sensitive this subject is. I DON'T LIKE THE STAND YOUR GROUND LAW since it does seem to biased. I wasn't going to reply til you edited your post about Wikipedia.

hagan714 04-13-2016 03:53 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Ok so the guy who wins millions says it is self defense and his buddy says the same thing, big surprise there. They knew cameras were all over the area so they played it smart. Old game been done 1000 times before.

now for the other side of the story

Family attorney: Smith was protecting wife when shot

Before former Saints star Will Smith was shot and killed Saturday night, Smith's wife, Racquel, was shot once in each leg, according to the family's attorney, Peter Thomson.

Family attorney: Smith was protecting wife when shot - NFL.com

spkb25 04-13-2016 04:15 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
he was shot 7 times in the back, this man is going to jail for a long time

lee909 04-13-2016 04:34 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Yeah exactly what was self defense in shooting a woman twice in the legs

RaginCajun83 04-13-2016 04:42 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
shooting someone 8 ****ing times is not self defense, hope the LA legal system gets it right and this POS rots for years

The Dude 04-13-2016 04:58 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nola_swammi (Post 699374)
Dude, I am just trying to enlighten you on what I discovered about stand your ground law, I am not a lawyer, or your librarian to find out the facts about the law, if you have any FACTS to refute what I am saying please post a link, I have no problem putting up links even if I find out what I am saying is wrong. I am trying to stop going on and on about the subject cause how sensitive this subject is. I DON'T LIKE THE STAND YOUR GROUND LAW since it does seem to biased. I wasn't going to reply til you edited your post about Wikipedia.
Are you even on the same planet as everyone else? I didn't ask you to be my librarian, I was correcting you. I'm not here to post laws, they are clearly written on the State Police website.

The Dude 04-13-2016 05:04 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 699382)
Yeah exactly what was self defense in shooting a woman twice in the legs
Because when you are inexperienced and hold a gun sideways trying to look all hard it's difficult to hit what you are aiming at. Collateral damage is probably what he will claim.
Could have been s classic case of insurance fraud gone wrong. Someone sees a Benz like that behind him and slams on the brakes to get a settlement. Who knows what the intent was. Every scenario and speculation leads to the same point. It could have been avoided.

|Mitch| 04-13-2016 06:10 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Family attorney: Smith was protecting wife when shot - NFL.com

nola_swammi 04-13-2016 07:05 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 699384)
Are you even on the same planet as everyone else? I didn't ask you to be my librarian, I was correcting you. I'm not here to post laws, they are clearly written on the State Police website.
I am on planet EARTH, maybe you're somewhere else.

Sir! you haven't corrected me on anything, you more like babbled about nothing so now I must refrain from replying to anymore ignorant statements about "STAND YOUR GROUND" law with YOU

jeanpierre 04-13-2016 10:09 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 (Post 699383)
shooting someone 8 ****ing times is not self defense, hope the LA legal system gets it right and this POS rots for years
Problem isn't the Louisiana Legal System, problem is the Orleans Parish Legal System...

|Mitch| 04-13-2016 10:19 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 699408)
Problem isn't the Louisiana Legal System, problem is the Orleans Parish Legal System...
Good luck finding an unbiased jury...

SmashMouth 04-13-2016 11:41 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Will Smith's wife Racquel was shot first, family attorney says

Witness saw Will Smith in possession of gun, Cardell Hayes' attorney says

spkb25 04-14-2016 04:07 AM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
I saw his press conference too. I don't believe a word he says only because of my experience with defense attorneys.

jeanpierre 04-14-2016 08:30 AM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Mitch| (Post 699411)
Good luck finding an unbiased jury...
That's not the point...

The Orleans Parish Legal System is inept, depraved and corrupt; with surging murder statistics, there should be a higher capital murder, murder one, conviction rate and yet the OPLS is among the worst in the nation; and so murderers go unchecked, experienced for their next vileness making building cases for conviction even less likely...

|Mitch| 04-14-2016 01:05 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 

SloMotion 04-14-2016 02:23 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 699433)
That's not the point...

The Orleans Parish Legal System is inept, depraved and corrupt; with surging murder statistics, there should be a higher capital murder, murder one, conviction rate and yet the OPLS is among the worst in the nation; and so murderers go unchecked, experienced for their next vileness making building cases for conviction even less likely...
I saw this story a couple days before this shooting happened and wonder if a lack of state appointed defense attorneys led to the 2nd degree murder charge vs 1st degree ... http://www.theneworleansadvocate.com...to-defend-them ... it seemed like they could hold a suspect longer under 2nd degree without appointing a state attorney vs 1st degree, #shrug.

WhoDat!656 04-14-2016 09:36 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Louisiana “stand your ground” law looms over Will Smith killing | ProFootballTalk

nola_swammi 04-15-2016 02:50 AM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
That law need to be done away with. That law is giving individuals the right to be the judge, jury, and executioner. Don't think that once it get to jury they will look at this action as overkill and throw the book at individual, in most cases a person with high incomes or white killing black will have the case thrown out before it ever see a jury because of "stand your ground". Anytime someone take a person life it should be mandatory that it go to trial if the defendant proclaims self defense. The only acception to the stand your ground law should be if you defending your home.

jeanpierre 04-15-2016 06:01 AM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Again, it's not stand your ground when Cardell Hayes chased him down (video evidence) and then executed him...

And those laws are necessary; and don't think they don't weigh on the minds of career street thugs...

My concern is an Orleans Parish Legal System that often gets it wrong...

The Dude 04-15-2016 09:02 AM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nola_swammi (Post 699555)
That law need to be done away with. That law is giving individuals the right to be the judge, jury, and executioner. Don't think that once it get to jury they will look at this action as overkill and throw the book at individual, in most cases a person with high incomes or white killing black will have the case thrown out before it ever see a jury because of "stand your ground". Anytime someone take a person life it should be mandatory that it go to trial if the defendant proclaims self defense. The only acception to the stand your ground law should be if you defending your home.
It's not the law that's a problem. The problem is when people don't understand what the law says but try and use it anyway.

The Dude 04-15-2016 12:08 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
And just because you have the right to defend yourself with a firearm doesn't mean it's morally right or even the smart thing to do. Your first option should be fleeing, if you can. A firearm is the last resort when you have no other choice. If you take a life, even in self defense it will change your life forever.
Hayes could have easily stayed in his car when he went back for his gun. If he had we wouldn't be having this discussion.

WhoDat!656 04-15-2016 05:46 PM
Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident
 
Can you imagine the hand wringing if Smith had been killed with an 'assault-style' weapon?


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