JOESAM2002

Can\'t we just get along? Somehow we always seem to get back to the same old thing. It seems to me that both of you are saying the same thing from time to time, you just say it in different ways. I\'d love to keep Jake here and who knows maybe he will be here next year. They don\'t leave it to us who\'s here and who\'s not. We can voice our opinions till the cows come home and I don\'t even have any cows. PLEASE, just agree to disagree on this subject and let\'s move on to something else. We have free agency and the draft coming up, if we can\'t find something to talk about there, then we\'re in trouble.
GO SAINTS!
P.S. Thank you both for your co-operation.

Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!!

"Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

saintz08

9-7
Pretty optimistic Who Dat

Look at what is going on :

Loomis is going into his first draft and who knows how that will turn out .
The defense is almost a complete rebuild .
The front line has it\'s issues on offense .
The wide receiver core is going to see new faces .
Brooks is coming off a surgery .
Could lose the back up Qb.

Those points added to a make shift coaching staff , who seems to lose control in the last 4 games repeatedly .
Better division play from opponets with less free agent loses .

The excuses for the first 4 games will be \" They have not gelled as a team \" and then the now infamous 4 game December losing streak . 6-10 might be a rather conservative figure .

This looks like a rebuilding season for the Saints in 2003.

\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton
On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan
Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

saintfan

At the risk of agreeing with WhoDat, I too am eternally optomistic. I don\'t think 9-7 is such a stretch. Remember with ANY kind of defense the Saints would have been much more successful. A rebuilding season? I don\'t think so. I agree the defense will have a completely different look, but the offense should do well. It seems to be in vogue to blame the coaching staff, and I am on the bandwagon when it comes to Venturi, but I don\'t think you can blame Haz for the \"Willie Roaf and his wife and Joe Johnson\" soap opera that clearly divided the team two years ago. To say he\'s \"responsible\" for this year\'s collapse is accurate in my opinion only if you realize that at some point you have to have players who are willing and capable of motivating themselves...to a degree anyway.

C'mon Man...

WhoDat

Well, how this team does in December of next year may just determine if Jim Haslett is the head coach of the New Orleans Saints in 2004. Any way you look at it December is huge. If they\'re in contention again, they better have a good last month and make the playoffs... three collapses will HAVE to cost the man his job. If not, if it turns out to be a rebuilding year, then they better be showing progress by the end of the season. A late season slide to a losing record would also probably cost Haz his job.

That being said, I think a miracle has occurred! Saintfan and I agree twice in one day. This year should not be a \"rebuilding\" year. It\'s Haslett\'s fourth year. I don\'t care what\'s happened, a guy in his fourth year that took over a 3-13 team should bring that team to the playoffs or get outta Dodge. Our offense is stacked. Horn and Stallworth are coming back. Pathon will still be here, so will Sloan. Our receiving corp won\'t be that different. If anything, they may add a big possesion guy to go across the middle and give Brooks more targets. If Deuce stays healthy all season, the Saints are in every single game they play... period. Our offense is that good, regardless of how wonderfully or how poorly our coordinators call plays.

Our D can\'t be any worse, right? They add speed and coverage to the secondary and reshuffle the linebackers and D-line... hopefully the D becomes at least decent. I doubt that they can be good with Venturi at the helm, but average D with our offense and special teams puts this team in contention. Remeber what the Rams did two years ago. Their defense was terrible the year that we beat them in the Playoffs (smile). They loaded up in the off-season and got to another Super Bowl. We\'ve got plenty of cap room and that number will grow if we dump guys like Hand (5 mill against the cap) and Knight. We\'ll have to see what free agents they go after, but I have to think next year should be at least a playoff year for the Saints... even with the improved competition in our division.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

billyh1026

Ok, seriously guys...this offense needs someone who doesn\'t screw up at QB. Sure every now and then he\'ll have to be better than the rest of the team. But for the most part it needs a decent QB who is fairly efficient and doesn\'t turn the ball over a whole lot. This offense is much much like the Rams. The QB doesn\'t have to be all-world. He just needs to be OK. It\'s basically pitch it short and let\'em haul a$$. Pretty much the way the running game is based too. I don\'t care who it is. Just make it be a decent QB and this offense could be put on cruise control most of the time. I know most you might think I\'m over-simplifying things here. But c\'mon the coaches HAVE to see this. I mean...if I can see it......???

Dean Vernon Wormer: Mr. Hoover, president of Delta house? One point six; four C's and an F. A fine example you set! Daniel Simpson Day... HAS no grade point average. All courses incomplete. Mr. Blu - MR. BLUTARSKY... ZERO POINT ZERO.
John 'Bluto' Blutarsky: Christ. Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the f@$%ing Peace Corps.

saintz08

While I would not like to say it is a rebuilding year it certainly looks like it . This area has the potential to see 3 new faces .

Front line :

The interior of the OL was superb. We revamped it for our hybrid West Coast/Run and Shoot offense and the changes were both masterful and cost effective. It wouldn\'t have been very surprising to see the entire interior of our OL in the Pro-Bowl. The OT\'s, on the other hand, were just adequate and never allowed us to dominate the trenches.


KEEPERS

1. OC Jerry Fontenot 6\'3\" 290- The captain dropped some weight and gained the confidence of his new linemates within one game. He performed at an All-Pro level the entire year and called some great adjustments in the trenches. He is the total package, but he is getting old and is contemplating retirement. Fontenot voided the final two years of his deal, possibly posturing to see how his best friend Kyle Turley\'s situation will play out. If we treat the Turley right then Fontenot will definetly be back for at least one more season.

2. RG LeCharles Bentley 6\'3\" 305- In one word- WOW! The guy came in and dominated from day one. He is a top 5 OG right now and within two years could be the best in the league. Bentley was brought in to be a center, but the old adage \"If it ain\'t broke, don\'t fix it\" comes into play here. Leave him at RG for the next decade and everything will be okay.

3. LG Kendall Jacox 6\'2\" 330- He tried to hold out for a big pay day, but it back fired on him and was a home run for the Saints. He has great size, power, and is surprisingly agile for a man his size. His versatility could also prove to be very useful. Because Jacox insists center is his best position, but I would hate to see him moved after the great year he had.

4. RT Victor Riley 6\'5\" 335- Huge former first rounder was another great value pickup that the Saints extended for two more years. Has some off the field troubles, but on it he has the ability to dominate. Tremendous power and good footwork make him a perfect fit for this offense. With a full offseason with the Saints he should take over the starting RT job for the next two years.

5. OT Spencer Folau 6\'5\" 300- He is a hard worker, versatile, and has decent footwork. All of these attributes will keep him on board for at least one more year. Folau did a decent job at RT riding the DE\'s out of the play, but he is not strong enough to manhandle a player and that will cost him his starting job. He is a good RT and a good backup LT, but if the Saints go into the season with him as their starting LT then we might as well pack it up and mail it in because Brooks will be eaten alive.


GONE

1. OT Kyle Turley 6\'5\" 295- His WWF antics have alienated him from the local media and even some teammates. With only one year left on his deal and the fact that he has given the Saints no indication that he wants to continue blocking for a \"QB that can\'t do his job.\" A trade appears to be the best option for the Saints. Here are the most likely situations for a trade...

Chargers- He has stated numerous times that he would love to play in front of his hometown crowd and with Damion McIntosh, a RFA who is still learning the position, returning at LT. They definitely need to upgrade if they want to win now. Turley and Vaughn Parker would be a good set of bookends for a mere first rounder.

Texans- The number #3 overall pick is too much for Turley, but if they trade down with a team like Denver then the #20 pick would be worth it. The Texans have Tony Boselli, who hasn\'t played in two years, and Ryan Tucker, an UFA that wants a big money deal, manning the OT spots. A swingman like Turley would be a perfect fit for their situation.

Broncos- They want a long term solution at LT and are unhappy with Emphraim Salaam. Turley would fit their offense like a glove and could be a great addition for them.


2. OG/OC Wally Williams 6\'2\" 340- Norman Hand\'s cousin has neck problems and a gut the size of a Toyota. Couple that with a huge cap figure and you have one released player. Washington or Baltimore seem to be likely landing spot for the Big Man.

3. OT Scott Sanderson 6\'6\" 300- He is an UFA that might want to try for more money. If he wants to play for the minimum we could bring him back. Good depth at OT.


FREE AGENTS

OT\'s

1. LT Blake Brockermeyer 6\'4\" 300 Broncos- The former first rounder is a legit starting LT. He is getting a bit old, but he is still the most viable option for the Saints. His aggressive style fits the offense like a glove and with Denver looking to get younger on the OL, Brockermeyer could slide right out the door and start heading south. Who wouldn\'t want to block for the leading NFC rusher, a top gun at QB, and a trio of good WR\'s... No Turley doesn\'t count.

2. LT John Fina 6\'5\" 300 Cardinals- The Bills were having trouble with the salary cap and Fina was one of their first victims. He landed in Arizona and hasn\'t been heard from since. He has the talent, but are the legs still able to go 16 games or more. I really don\'t believe he has enough left in the tank, but I would definitely grab him if I couldn\'t land Brockermeyer.

OC/OG

1. OC/OG Bill Conaty Bills 6\'2\" 300- Being an undrafted free agent he has had to earn every bit of playing time he has gotten. He is a heady player, but limited athletically. In some ways he reminds me of a young Fontenot, but no where near as good. A decent value player in free agency if he doesn\'t get a big money deal.

2. OC/OG Grey Ruegamer Patriots 6\'5\" 300- At one time the Dolphins thought he could be a sensational player, but those days passed and his attitude remained the same. Reality didn\'t set in until the former #1 center in the draft was given his walking papers. New England picked him up and since that he has become a valued contributor. He would be a good value in free agency and will give us some insurance in case Fontenot decides to retire.


DRAFT

1. OT Derrick Brantley 6\'4\" 305 Clemson- Has never been a full time starter, but the JUCO transfer was in line to be a star this season, but a torn ACL cut that dream short. Has the skills to be a solid player if he can come back at 100%. A late round gem that will have to be cleared medically.

2. OT Damian Lavergne 6\'5\" 330 Louisiana Tech- Has first round ability. Is a bit lazy and just seems indifferent at times, but when he is playing to his potential- Look Out! He is a late round gamble that could pay off big time.


OVERALL

Turley is the toughest situation to deal with and we are already sending out feelers. The asking price is a 1 and 3, but if we can secure a first rounder we should definitely pull the trigger. As long as we don\'t turn this into a mud slinging trade Fontenot should come back and lead our way to the playoffs.

In the midst of this turmoil we could see up to 3 new starters on the OL again this offseason, but if we are creative and remain on top of free agent market then we can easily overcome this. This is what my ideal OL would look like...

LT- Blake Brockermeyer
--Spencer Folau- backs up both LT and RT.
LG- Kendall Jacox
C- Jerry Fontenot
RG- LeCharles Bentley
--Bill Conaty- top back up at both OG and OC.
RT- Victor Riley

\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton
On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan
Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

WhoDat

Billy - Amen. I\'ve been screaming that for months, but nobody likes to hear it from me.

08 - Why do new faces equated to \"rebuilding?\" To me rebuilding is a term that applies to teams who don\'t have a lot of talent and are in bad cap situations. They have to start over from the ground up and look to new players and even new systems.

The Saints don\'t need that. Let\'s say they go after a new tackle and a receiver. That\'s nine of the same faces on offense. Defensively, Howard and Grant are staying and Carter will stick around. Jackson could start again as could Clemons, Hodge, and Bellamy. Not likely that they all will, but who knows? In any case, the talent on defense should improve significantly and our team should be very talented and able to compete next year... that\'s not rebuilding to me.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

saintfan

You don\'t replace a successful QB with an unknown. I\'ve done my level best to steer ya\'ll away from this \"kill the QB\" mantra but the shortsightedness continues. Even WhoDat can only come up with a couple of games where Brooks\' performance was the featured reason for the loss.

I also wanna side with WhoDat on the topic of next year being a re-building year. The Saints, as Gatorman and others have said so well, need to get better up the middle, and I think thats exactly what they\'ll do. Enough players will remain so that we\'ll recognize a few of \'em. I look at it more as retooling as opposed to rebuilding.

C'mon Man...

saintz08

This is looking like an across the board names change .
OL
DL
LB
DB
WR
RB
QB
Is Carney locked ??

These are new faces in starting and key back up positions . Players want out and some are not wanted . Could be as high as 50% of the starting team . This is not changing 2 or 3 starters and some backups .

saintfan

Some changes are needed and/or required on both the OL and the DL. Linebacker needs work as well as DB, but teams change kickers far too often for that to be considered in my opinion. Who wants out besides Turley? Nothing can be done if Sammy tries to hold the team ransom for more $? He played like crap anyway.

After all is said and done, lets look at the other teams who have new faces in starting and key backup positions. This is today\'s NFL. This, is the salary cap as it was intended whether we like it or not.

C'mon Man...