'Quarterbacking robot' Drew Brees deserves to get paid, Zach Strief says on radio

ScottF · 06-05-2016, 10:09 PM

Um, hey Zach, Northwestern grad... number 9 already is "paid and compensated" more than everyone else

spkb25 · 06-06-2016, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Um, hey Zach, Northwestern grad... number 9 already is "paid and compensated" more than everyone else

There are 9 QB's ahead of him in the NFL, but he will get paid, no doubt. He is going to end up with about 22-25m

AsylumGuido · 06-06-2016, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Um, hey Zach, Northwestern grad... number 9 already is "paid and compensated" more than everyone else

No, not in relation to others at his position across the league. One can argue he is vastly underpaid. How soon we forget the old days. Buddy D and several hundred Saints fans wore paper bags on their heads in 1980-81 as a protest against management for refusing to spend competitive dollars on players. I personally would rather not return to those times and hope the team does right and pays Brees what he is worth.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 06-06-2016, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Um, hey Zach, Northwestern grad... number 9 already is "paid and compensated" more than everyone else

Scott,

That is true to a degree. 5 years ago it was the largest contract in NFL history. But that 5 years is up and once again it's time to fish or cut bait.

All the evidence over the last 5 years, including last year, indicates that Brees is a top 3 NFL QB.

Quarterbacks are the highest paid players in the NFL. According to this site:

NFL's richest contracts for 2015 | NFL.com

out of the top 17 contracts, only 2 were not QBs. The highest non QB player was Suh at #10. And according to these 2016 averages:

NFL Salary Rankings | Spotrac

Brees is 10th with 9 QBs ahead of him. Now honestly, does anyone think that all of the 9 QBs ahead of Brees are deserving of more dollars? Three of them (Rivers, Ryan, Newton) do not even have a SuperBowl Ring. However, each and every one of them has signed a new contract or extension since Brees did in 2012.

Contract negotiation is an adversarial process. Each side wants to maximize the contract benefit. And for the most part it's a zero sum game, so whatever is added to one side takes something away from the other.

What Strief is saying, I believe, is that Brees' value to the organization is worth the market value of the top 2 or 3 QBs currently in the NFL. That number is hovering just about $22 million a year. And if Brees is allowed on the open market, it'll likely jump to $25 million easily IMHO. I mean who was the last healthy NFL QB to lead the league in passing and then change teams?

I also have the opinion that many think that the numbers are eye popping and extravagant. But the vast wealth of the NFL really belies that argument. The NFL is pulling in $12+ billion in revenue:

NFL revenue: Here comes another record season - Sep. 10, 2015

according to the terms of the current CBA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...2011_agreement

nearly half that revenue must be distributed to the players. That's $6+ billion a year distributed among no more that 2500 people. The CBA also specifies that at least 89% of the salary cap average over a 4 year rolling period must be distributed to the players. In short, the money is both there and it has to be paid out. And most importantly, if the Saints choose not to pay, which is certainly their right not to do, that there are at least a dozen teams in the NFL that would likely have both the capability and desire to cash in. This is what I keep saying when I point out that the market dictates the price point, not the player or his agent.

Finally considering the fact that the 7 QBs on the top 10 of that 2016 list have won 12 of the last 15 Superbowls (exceptions of 2 for Peyton Manning, and Brad Johnson is 2003 with the Bucs), I feel it is difficult to overstate the value of a top flight QB in this league.

I'm just suggesting take it in context. Brees' run the last 10 years has to be ranked in the top 2-3 runs in NFL history or that length. Qbs like that simply do not fall off trees. I believe that Stief is saying, and I agree, that Brees deserves each and every penny he is paid to lead one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history.

SFIAH

ScottF · 06-06-2016, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Scott,

That is true to a degree. 5 years ago it was the largest contract in NFL history. But that 5 years is up and once again it's time to fish or cut bait.

All the evidence over the last 5 years, including last year, indicates that Brees is a top 3 NFL QB.

Quarterbacks are the highest paid players in the NFL. According to this site:

NFL's richest contracts for 2015 | NFL.com

out of the top 17 contracts, only 2 were not QBs. The highest non QB player was Suh at #10. And according to these 2016 averages:

NFL Salary Rankings | Spotrac

Brees is 10th with 9 QBs ahead of him. Now honestly, does anyone think that all of the 9 QBs ahead of Brees are deserving of more dollars? Three of them (Rivers, Ryan, Newton) do not even have a SuperBowl Ring. However, each and every one of them has signed a new contract or extension since Brees did in 2012.

SFIAH

Yes-
the newer contracts will continue to set the bar, just as Brees' did 4 years ago (as did a Vikings DB yesterday). Two points though- all of the QB's 1-9 are younger, and the dollar difference between 1-10 is only $2.2 million per year.
Should the oldest guy on the list get $25 m per, just because he is up for a new contract? Condon would say yes, but he also has Eli and Ryan to worry about.

I would be thrilled if Brees signed for 3-4 years at $23 million per, but I do not see him doing that.
He is a stat guy, and I expect the salary stat means a lot to him. Whether the money does or not, none of us know.

Your points on revenue sharing and the cap are spot-on. I am advocate of a significantly higher cap and roster expansion. My caveat would be a position cap as well, just to insure that a $500,000 guy isn't snapping the ball to a $50,000,000 guy.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 06-06-2016, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Yes-
the newer contracts will continue to set the bar, just as Brees' did 4 years ago (as did a Vikings DB yesterday). Two points though- all of the QB's 1-9 are younger, and the dollar difference between 1-10 is only $2.2 million per year.
Should the oldest guy on the list get $25 m per, just because he is up for a new contract? Condon would say yes, but he also has Eli and Ryan to worry about.

I don't disagree with that assessment. That's the challenge for the Saints. The real problem isn't Condon. The real problem is that there are teams out there that would happily pay it. I keep trying to think of the last time a UFA QB of Brees' caliber was healthy and on the open market. Manning was coming off an injury when released from Indy. Farve had retired then unretired and then traded from Green Bay to the Jets. Does anyone have anything close to an example?

I would be thrilled if Brees signed for 3-4 years at $23 million per, but I do not see him doing that.
He is a stat guy, and I expect the salary stat means a lot to him. Whether the money does or not, none of us know.

That may be the case. But where is the upside for Brees signing an undervalued contract? The open market is going to be higher.

Your points on revenue sharing and the cap are spot-on. I am advocate of a significantly higher cap and roster expansion. My caveat would be a position cap as well, just to insure that a $500,000 guy isn't snapping the ball to a $50,000,000 guy.

Why position parity? Tell me about the last center that led his team to a SuperBowl.

SFIAH

ScottF · 06-06-2016, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I don't disagree with that assessment. That's the challenge for the Saints. The real problem isn't Condon. The real problem is that there are teams out there that would happily pay it. I keep trying to think of the last time a UFA QB of Brees' caliber was healthy and on the open market. Manning was coming off an injury when released from Indy. Farve had retired then unretired and then traded from Green Bay to the Jets. Does anyone have anything close to an example?

SFIAH

Warner? Jeff George 6X? Steve Young was shopped...
No, no one would have anywhere near the same impact as Brees hitting the market
Osweiler got 18 a year for his 11 career TD's

halloween 65 · 06-06-2016, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Warner? Jeff George 6X? Steve Young was shopped...
No, no one would have anywhere near the same impact as Brees hitting the market
Osweiler got 18 a year for his 11 career TD's

If Brees would hit the market could he be as good in their system as he is in Paytons? Some teams might over pay but say a Cleveland goes for broke and he ends up there? It's Paytons system, Brees is just the triggerman( a good one) but when Paytons done with him Payton will have another pulling the trigger. On Osweller, he didn't play all that bad, I'm going to see if Elway let one get by him.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 06-06-2016, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

If Brees would hit the market could he be as good in their system as he is in Paytons?

Absolutely. Brees was a top 5 QB in San Diego.

Some teams might over pay but say a Cleveland goes for broke and he ends up there?

Two words: Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton is in fact no Drew Brees and look what Hue Jackson has accomplished with him in Cincinnati.

It's Paytons system, Brees is just the triggerman( a good one) but when Paytons done with him Payton will have another pulling the trigger.

Honestly, I simply do not know how to process this statement. I am flabbergasted.

On Osweller, he didn't play all that bad, I'm going to see if Elway let one get by him.

Not the point. The market pays the guy $18 million a year on a half season and potential. Based on that what is the value of a Hall of Famer?

SFIAH

SaintFanInATLHELL · 06-06-2016, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Warner?

Injured

Jeff George 6X?

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_George

Indianapolis: "George threw 46 interceptions to 41 touchdowns and lost 35 of his 49 career starts as a Colt; his only winning season with the Colts was 1992, where he played ten games and threw 15 interceptions to seven touchdowns. Before the 1993 season, he refused to report to training camp and only returned to the team when Jim Irsay made it clear that George would have to pay a huge penalty fee for breach of contract if he didn't get back to work. The Colts traded him to the Atlanta Falcons after the 1993 season."

Atlanta: "George got into a heated argument on the sidelines with then-Falcons coach June Jones, all of which was caught on camera for a national television audience. Jones suspended George for the remainder of the 1996 season and Atlanta dealt George to the Oakland Raiders after the season. It was later confirmed that George blamed team management for his problems and felt Jones betrayed him by not standing up to this alleged mistreatment... George's record with the Falcons was 16-19; he had the best completion percentage (60.5) of his career with 50 touchdowns and 32 interceptions."

This isn't a top 3 QB.

Steve Young was shopped...

Arguable. But it was a trade proposal, not the open market. Also the bizarre situation of having a HOF 4 time winning SB QB on the roster.

No, no one would have anywhere near the same impact as Brees hitting the market
Osweiler got 18 a year for his 11 career TD's

Exactly.

SFIAH

06-06-2016, 04:28 AM	#2
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,123	Re: 'Quarterbacking robot' Drew Brees deserves to get paid, Zach Strief says on radio Originally Posted by ScottF Um, hey Zach, Northwestern grad... number 9 already is "paid and compensated" more than everyone else There are 9 QB's ahead of him in the NFL, but he will get paid, no doubt. He is going to end up with about 22-25m

06-06-2016, 08:14 AM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,574	Re: 'Quarterbacking robot' Drew Brees deserves to get paid, Zach Strief says on radio Originally Posted by ScottF Um, hey Zach, Northwestern grad... number 9 already is "paid and compensated" more than everyone else No, not in relation to others at his position across the league. One can argue he is vastly underpaid. How soon we forget the old days. Buddy D and several hundred Saints fans wore paper bags on their heads in 1980-81 as a protest against management for refusing to spend competitive dollars on players. I personally would rather not return to those times and hope the team does right and pays Brees what he is worth.

06-06-2016, 12:07 PM	#4
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: 'Quarterbacking robot' Drew Brees deserves to get paid, Zach Strief says on radio Originally Posted by ScottF Um, hey Zach, Northwestern grad... number 9 already is "paid and compensated" more than everyone else Scott, That is true to a degree. 5 years ago it was the largest contract in NFL history. But that 5 years is up and once again it's time to fish or cut bait. All the evidence over the last 5 years, including last year, indicates that Brees is a top 3 NFL QB. Quarterbacks are the highest paid players in the NFL. According to this site: NFL's richest contracts for 2015 \| NFL.com out of the top 17 contracts, only 2 were not QBs. The highest non QB player was Suh at #10. And according to these 2016 averages: NFL Salary Rankings \| Spotrac Brees is 10th with 9 QBs ahead of him. Now honestly, does anyone think that all of the 9 QBs ahead of Brees are deserving of more dollars? Three of them (Rivers, Ryan, Newton) do not even have a SuperBowl Ring. However, each and every one of them has signed a new contract or extension since Brees did in 2012. Contract negotiation is an adversarial process. Each side wants to maximize the contract benefit. And for the most part it's a zero sum game, so whatever is added to one side takes something away from the other. What Strief is saying, I believe, is that Brees' value to the organization is worth the market value of the top 2 or 3 QBs currently in the NFL. That number is hovering just about $22 million a year. And if Brees is allowed on the open market, it'll likely jump to $25 million easily IMHO. I mean who was the last healthy NFL QB to lead the league in passing and then change teams? I also have the opinion that many think that the numbers are eye popping and extravagant. But the vast wealth of the NFL really belies that argument. The NFL is pulling in $12+ billion in revenue: NFL revenue: Here comes another record season - Sep. 10, 2015 according to the terms of the current CBA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...2011_agreement nearly half that revenue must be distributed to the players. That's $6+ billion a year distributed among no more that 2500 people. The CBA also specifies that at least 89% of the salary cap average over a 4 year rolling period must be distributed to the players. In short, the money is both there and it has to be paid out. And most importantly, if the Saints choose not to pay, which is certainly their right not to do, that there are at least a dozen teams in the NFL that would likely have both the capability and desire to cash in. This is what I keep saying when I point out that the market dictates the price point, not the player or his agent. Finally considering the fact that the 7 QBs on the top 10 of that 2016 list have won 12 of the last 15 Superbowls (exceptions of 2 for Peyton Manning, and Brad Johnson is 2003 with the Bucs), I feel it is difficult to overstate the value of a top flight QB in this league. I'm just suggesting take it in context. Brees' run the last 10 years has to be ranked in the top 2-3 runs in NFL history or that length. Qbs like that simply do not fall off trees. I believe that Stief is saying, and I agree, that Brees deserves each and every penny he is paid to lead one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history. SFIAH spkb25, mleg1972, AsylumGuido and 1 others like this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

06-06-2016, 12:51 PM	#5
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: 'Quarterbacking robot' Drew Brees deserves to get paid, Zach Strief says on radio Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Scott, That is true to a degree. 5 years ago it was the largest contract in NFL history. But that 5 years is up and once again it's time to fish or cut bait. All the evidence over the last 5 years, including last year, indicates that Brees is a top 3 NFL QB. Quarterbacks are the highest paid players in the NFL. According to this site: NFL's richest contracts for 2015 \| NFL.com out of the top 17 contracts, only 2 were not QBs. The highest non QB player was Suh at #10. And according to these 2016 averages: NFL Salary Rankings \| Spotrac Brees is 10th with 9 QBs ahead of him. Now honestly, does anyone think that all of the 9 QBs ahead of Brees are deserving of more dollars? Three of them (Rivers, Ryan, Newton) do not even have a SuperBowl Ring. However, each and every one of them has signed a new contract or extension since Brees did in 2012. SFIAH Yes- the newer contracts will continue to set the bar, just as Brees' did 4 years ago (as did a Vikings DB yesterday). Two points though- all of the QB's 1-9 are younger, and the dollar difference between 1-10 is only $2.2 million per year. Should the oldest guy on the list get $25 m per, just because he is up for a new contract? Condon would say yes, but he also has Eli and Ryan to worry about. I would be thrilled if Brees signed for 3-4 years at $23 million per, but I do not see him doing that. He is a stat guy, and I expect the salary stat means a lot to him. Whether the money does or not, none of us know. Your points on revenue sharing and the cap are spot-on. I am advocate of a significantly higher cap and roster expansion. My caveat would be a position cap as well, just to insure that a $500,000 guy isn't snapping the ball to a $50,000,000 guy.

06-06-2016, 01:29 PM	#6
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: 'Quarterbacking robot' Drew Brees deserves to get paid, Zach Strief says on radio Originally Posted by ScottF Yes- the newer contracts will continue to set the bar, just as Brees' did 4 years ago (as did a Vikings DB yesterday). Two points though- all of the QB's 1-9 are younger, and the dollar difference between 1-10 is only $2.2 million per year. Should the oldest guy on the list get $25 m per, just because he is up for a new contract? Condon would say yes, but he also has Eli and Ryan to worry about. I don't disagree with that assessment. That's the challenge for the Saints. The real problem isn't Condon. The real problem is that there are teams out there that would happily pay it. I keep trying to think of the last time a UFA QB of Brees' caliber was healthy and on the open market. Manning was coming off an injury when released from Indy. Farve had retired then unretired and then traded from Green Bay to the Jets. Does anyone have anything close to an example? I would be thrilled if Brees signed for 3-4 years at $23 million per, but I do not see him doing that. He is a stat guy, and I expect the salary stat means a lot to him. Whether the money does or not, none of us know. That may be the case. But where is the upside for Brees signing an undervalued contract? The open market is going to be higher. Your points on revenue sharing and the cap are spot-on. I am advocate of a significantly higher cap and roster expansion. My caveat would be a position cap as well, just to insure that a $500,000 guy isn't snapping the ball to a $50,000,000 guy. Why position parity? Tell me about the last center that led his team to a SuperBowl. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

06-05-2016, 10:09 PM	#1
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: 'Quarterbacking robot' Drew Brees deserves to get paid, Zach Strief says on radio Um, hey Zach, Northwestern grad... number 9 already is "paid and compensated" more than everyone else

06-06-2016, 03:23 PM	#7
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: 'Quarterbacking robot' Drew Brees deserves to get paid, Zach Strief says on radio Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I don't disagree with that assessment. That's the challenge for the Saints. The real problem isn't Condon. The real problem is that there are teams out there that would happily pay it. I keep trying to think of the last time a UFA QB of Brees' caliber was healthy and on the open market. Manning was coming off an injury when released from Indy. Farve had retired then unretired and then traded from Green Bay to the Jets. Does anyone have anything close to an example? SFIAH Warner? Jeff George 6X? Steve Young was shopped... No, no one would have anywhere near the same impact as Brees hitting the market Osweiler got 18 a year for his 11 career TD's

06-06-2016, 07:57 PM	#8
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: 'Quarterbacking robot' Drew Brees deserves to get paid, Zach Strief says on radio Originally Posted by ScottF Warner? Jeff George 6X? Steve Young was shopped... No, no one would have anywhere near the same impact as Brees hitting the market Osweiler got 18 a year for his 11 career TD's If Brees would hit the market could he be as good in their system as he is in Paytons? Some teams might over pay but say a Cleveland goes for broke and he ends up there? It's Paytons system, Brees is just the triggerman( a good one) but when Paytons done with him Payton will have another pulling the trigger. On Osweller, he didn't play all that bad, I'm going to see if Elway let one get by him.

06-06-2016, 09:29 PM	#9
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: 'Quarterbacking robot' Drew Brees deserves to get paid, Zach Strief says on radio Originally Posted by halloween 65 If Brees would hit the market could he be as good in their system as he is in Paytons? Absolutely. Brees was a top 5 QB in San Diego. Some teams might over pay but say a Cleveland goes for broke and he ends up there? Two words: Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton is in fact no Drew Brees and look what Hue Jackson has accomplished with him in Cincinnati. It's Paytons system, Brees is just the triggerman( a good one) but when Paytons done with him Payton will have another pulling the trigger. Honestly, I simply do not know how to process this statement. I am flabbergasted. On Osweller, he didn't play all that bad, I'm going to see if Elway let one get by him. Not the point. The market pays the guy $18 million a year on a half season and potential. Based on that what is the value of a Hall of Famer? SFIAH

06-06-2016, 08:51 PM	#10
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: 'Quarterbacking robot' Drew Brees deserves to get paid, Zach Strief says on radio Originally Posted by ScottF Warner? Injured Jeff George 6X? From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_George Indianapolis: "George threw 46 interceptions to 41 touchdowns and lost 35 of his 49 career starts as a Colt; his only winning season with the Colts was 1992, where he played ten games and threw 15 interceptions to seven touchdowns. Before the 1993 season, he refused to report to training camp and only returned to the team when Jim Irsay made it clear that George would have to pay a huge penalty fee for breach of contract if he didn't get back to work. The Colts traded him to the Atlanta Falcons after the 1993 season." Atlanta: "George got into a heated argument on the sidelines with then-Falcons coach June Jones, all of which was caught on camera for a national television audience. Jones suspended George for the remainder of the 1996 season and Atlanta dealt George to the Oakland Raiders after the season. It was later confirmed that George blamed team management for his problems and felt Jones betrayed him by not standing up to this alleged mistreatment... George's record with the Falcons was 16-19; he had the best completion percentage (60.5) of his career with 50 touchdowns and 32 interceptions." This isn't a top 3 QB. Steve Young was shopped... Arguable. But it was a trade proposal, not the open market. Also the bizarre situation of having a HOF 4 time winning SB QB on the roster. No, no one would have anywhere near the same impact as Brees hitting the market Osweiler got 18 a year for his 11 career TD's Exactly. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

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